From another thread:
Originally posted by Alliance
Men and woman are legally identical. Unless your sexist...
Or a biologist. Or in the armed forces. Or plenty of other places (childbirth, maternity leave, yada yada yada)
Originally posted by Alliance
Actually, If you know your history, homosexuality began being publically discussed in the 1950s in the US. I belive all people whould be treated equally under the law. Marriage is a privledge given to all US citizens, except homosexuals. Civil rights are in place to protect the rights of minorities, do make sure that they are not discriminated against by people with opinions similar to yours. The prequistes for a marriage license are unconstitutional. You cant have a discriminatory contract.
I wasn't talking about homosexuality in general, just as pertains to marriage. I don't see homosexuals as a minority, because I don't see them as different from anyone else. The prerequisites for marriage can't be unconstitutional for the simple reason that the constitution doesn't deal with marriage or sexual orientation at all. No non activist judge would ever find it unconstitutional. And the ammendment (which is silly to bring up in congress right now as there isn't enough support there for it, in the population yes, and the states, probably, but not in congress) would just clarify the way its supposed to be.
Originally posted by Alliance
Part of the reason there is no conclusive proof is that no one trusts the science talking about sexuality. If people claim a genetic link, they often want to engineer babies to not be homosexual or to discriminate based on the "gay gene." If there is no genetic link, people like you claim its a behavior and want to condition it out of society. If you know anything about genetics, you know that most everything is a combination of genetic predisposition and behavior.
Actually the major focus of my undergraduate work was genetics and molecular biology. I think what you meant to say is that it's a combination of genetics and environment. In which case we are in perfect agreement. However, in matters of behavior, I think that human beings have the potential to rise above their programming.
Originally posted by Alliance
Try talking to homosexuals, you'll find that most don't think its a behavioral pattern. Certainly don' tpass judgements on things untill you talk face to face with homosexuals and explain why you are partially disenfranchizing them.
I have spoken with gays, and most of the time we just have to agree to disagree. There is a small minority who will say that part of it is their choice. I've even read articles about a "recovering" homosexual. America is about choice, but choices always have consequences.
Originally posted by Alliance
Is a law just if tis discriminatory. The "laws" as you put them are unconstitutional. There is a reason the extreme religous conservatives want to put in a constitutional amendment banning gay marriage. THe constitution protects gay marriage. The only way to stop that is by raping the constitution with ant-gay marriage amendments.
explained above. Nice use of inflammatory language by the way, but can we please stick to rational thought.
Originally posted by Alliance
YOure saying <<we'll its ok that we have segregation, because its the law>> THAT is unamerican.
Nope, I've said nothing about segregation. What I've said, if you'll stop trying to put words in my mouth, is that gays and straights should be treated exactly the same, and that there is no legitimate reason to change the law. No predjudice exists. The slights are percieved not real.
And quit calling me unamerican for crying out loud. Some of the things you're saying are american ideals come closer to socialism and marxism than the republic that the founding fathers actually gave us.
Originally posted by Alliance
If you read my post, its not a choice at all. Calling homosexuality an addiction and a weakness is personally disgusting on the highest of levels.
Disgusting or not it could be true. Disease isn't always a choice, but it can always be fought.
Originally posted by Alliance
Men aren't all genetically (as you mentioned) to like women. YOu can't force someone in this country to do somehting agianst your will. Your story doesnt make sense and isn't based on any fact. YOur "theory" is actually on conjecture.
Don't give me that. This country legislates behavior all the time. Seat belts, property zoning, don't get me started on homeowners associations. I guess I should have said hypothesis instead of theory, I really haven't gathered enough info for it to be a theory. Doesn't change the validity of the comparison. Just because something is genetic doesn't make it right.
Originally posted by Alliance
There is a difference between choosing which specific people you like and which sex you like. Homosexuals dont feel sexual attraction for the oposite sex. You cant just choose another any more than you can choose to feel sexually attracted towards men.
Prove it. The burden lies on the party supporting change. Alcoholics can't just turn off the desire for more booze either, doesn't mean that we should turn them loose in a bar.
Originally posted by Alliance
Abusive, incestusous, and bigamist marriages have been shown to hurt people. Abusive rlationships certianly hurt people. Incestuous marragies lead to twisted. Bigamist/polygamist marriages often lead to spousal neglect. Incestuous marriages are often used for cult religous family structures. Gay marriages don't hurt people. They most likely help in the same way that straight couples are helped by marriages.
Come on now, as long as they're consenting adults, what's the difference? In any of those cases they only hurt those involved. Take out the procreative problems and what is the difference really. If they love each other isn't that all that should matter?
Gay marriages would only benefit gays. What benefit would it give society? That's the real purpose behind government recognized marriage.
I wasn't talking about homosexuality in general, just as pertains to marriage. I don't see homosexuals as a minority, because I don't see them as different from anyone else. The prerequisites for marriage can't be unconstitutional for the simple reason that the constitution doesn't deal with marriage or sexual orientation at all. No non activist judge would ever find it unconstitutional. And the ammendment (which is silly to bring up in congress right now as there isn't enough support there for it, in the population yes, and the states, probably, but not in congress) would just clarify the way its supposed to be.
Our forefathers clearly intended for the Constitution to adapt to changes times, since they knew taht it was NEW IDEAS, not tradition, that would lead to progression of the United States.
What does that mean now? That as much are you conservatives have the right to argue your feelings about what you think should happen, we liberals and homos have the right to defend what we beleive is our RIGHT to have.
The crux of the matter is we are trying to fight for our freedom and you are trying to limit us.
Actually the major focus of my undergraduate work was genetics and molecular biology. I think what you meant to say is that it's a combination of genetics and environment. In which case we are in perfect agreement. However, in matters of behavior, I think that human beings have the potential to rise above their programming.
That's interesting, but an individual person does not have to submit to YOUR programming either.
I have spoken with gays, and most of the time we just have to agree to disagree. There is a small minority who will say that part of it is their choice. I've even read articles about a "recovering" homosexual. America is about choice, but choices always have consequences.
Speaking to gays and BEING gay are two completely different things. SEXUAL ACTIVITY is always a choice yes.....
Sexual orientation? NO my freind...thats not a choice. There are VIRGINS who identify themselves as gay or bisexual. Your sexual identity is based on your desires and attractions, not on your actual activity.
You do not choose your attractions, so theres no choice involved. The "gay" is completely involuntary just as being straight is.
Nope, I've said nothing about segregation. What I've said, if you'll stop trying to put words in my mouth, is that gays and straights should be treated exactly the same, and that there is no legitimate reason to change the law. No predjudice exists. The slights are percieved not real.
And quit calling me unamerican for crying out loud. Some of the things you're saying are american ideals come closer to socialism and marxism than the republic that the founding fathers actually gave us
If it were up to you gay men would only marry straight women and vise versa. Are you crazy bro ? Gay men don't have romantic sexual feelings for women, so you would only created a union of two miserable people.
Like i said, i think ur stance on this is deluded because you would rather have a marriage of a man and woman thats meaningless and lacking in love, then a marriage of two men that is filled with love.
To you the tradition is more important than the LOVE, and that is very UnChristian of you.
Disgusting or not it could be true. Disease isn't always a choice, but it can always be fought.
Wisen up. Homosexuality is NOT a disease. Diseases hurt and kill people. HATRED is more of a disease, and CLOSE MINDEDNESS is more of a disease. You seem to be infected with both my freind, you should get checked right away. ❌
Don't give me that. This country legislates behavior all the time. Seat belts, property zoning, don't get me started on homeowners associations. I guess I should have said hypothesis instead of theory, I really haven't gathered enough info for it to be a theory. Doesn't change the validity of the comparison. Just because something is genetic doesn't make it right.
Being gay is not a crime though. You conservative Christians always compare being gay to murder, to being a theif, to being a pedifile, etc. just because you cannot come out and admit one fact:
This ultamately is not about sin.....you only have a few excerpts to go on from the Bible, you have NO rational reason to disapprove of gay people. You simply think we're disgusting. its that simple.
atleast admit it, and ill have SOME respect for your debate.
Prove it. The burden lies on the party supporting change. Alcoholics can't just turn off the desire for more booze either, doesn't mean that we should turn them loose in a bar.
BAD ANALOGY my close minded freind. Alcoholism is nothing like sexual drive. We all have the right to enjoy sex. Being a homosexual is not harmful to one's self. Alcoholism is.
Being a homosexual does not destroy your family, alcoholism does.
Alcoholism is a self induced addiction......Homosexuality is NOT self induced nor is it an addiction.....its a sexual orientation.
Dude you NEED to come up with better examples, because this only shows how LITTLE u know about the truth about gays.
Come on now, as long as they're consenting adults, what's the difference? In any of those cases they only hurt those involved. Take out the procreative problems and what is the difference really. If they love each other isn't that all that should matter?
Gay marriages would only benefit gays. What benefit would it give society? That's the real purpose behind government recognized marriage.
Gay marriage only benefits gays....no sh^t Sherlock.
The same way straight marriages only benefit straights.
Originally posted by Lord Urizen
Our forefathers clearly intended for the Constitution to adapt to changes times, since they knew taht it was NEW IDEAS, not tradition, that would lead to progression of the United States.What does that mean now? That as much are you conservatives have the right to argue your feelings about what you think should happen, we liberals and homos have the right to defend what we beleive is our RIGHT to have.
The crux of the matter is we are trying to fight for our freedom and you are trying to limit us.
True, which is why there is a movement to get an ammendment in place protecting the traditional definition of marriage. But honestly laws come from experience and history. Some things change with the times, but some truths are immutable. When looking at change we shouldn't just throw out the old, we should consider it, make sure we understand why it was the way it was and see what changed that requires the change.
Originally posted by Lord Urizen
That's interesting, but an individual person does not have to submit to YOUR programming either.
Nope, it has to be that person's choice or it would be meaningless. But don't think that there aren't people who have made that choice.
Originally posted by Lord Urizen
Speaking to gays and BEING gay are two completely different things. SEXUAL ACTIVITY is always a choice yes.....Sexual orientation? NO my freind...thats not a choice. There are VIRGINS who identify themselves as gay or bisexual. Your sexual identity is based on your desires and attractions, not on your actual activity.
You do not choose your attractions, so theres no choice involved. The "gay" is completely involuntary just as being straight is.
I have met gays, and lesbians, but never a gay virgin. Choice may not be the right word, but it isn't "just so" either. My own tastes in women have varied quite a bit over the years, and while that isn't as extreme as being attracted to a different gender, it does show that tastes can change over time.
Originally posted by Lord Urizen
If it were up to you gay men would only marry straight women and vise versa. Are you crazy bro ? Gay men don't have romantic sexual feelings for women, so you would only created a union of two miserable people.Like i said, i think ur stance on this is deluded because you would rather have a marriage of a man and woman thats meaningless and lacking in love, then a marriage of two men that is filled with love.
To you the tradition is more important than the LOVE, and that is very UnChristian of you.
Honestly, I think a marriage made up based solely on sexual attraction would make a sad marriage anyways. Friendship should always be the foundation. No marriage based on trust and mutual understanding and friendship would be meaningless, regardless of sex.
By the way, I adhere to the christian maxim of love the sinner, hate the sin. You and I can be friends, but I can't approve of your lifestyle.
Originally posted by Lord Urizen
Wisen up. Homosexuality is NOT a disease. Diseases hurt and kill people. HATRED is more of a disease, and CLOSE MINDEDNESS is more of a disease. You seem to be infected with both my freind, you should get checked right away. ❌
I would agree that chronic hatred and closedmindedness are both diseases. Probably worse than homosexuality.
As far as my own health concerning them, I don't hate you or any other homosexual. My mind is relatively open, you won't entertain the idea that homosexuality could be wrong any more than I would entertain the possibility of it being natural. One of those areas we're going to have to agree to disagree on.
Originally posted by Lord Urizen
Being gay is not a crime though. You conservative Christians always compare being gay to murder, to being a theif, to being a pedifile, etc. just because you cannot come out and admit one fact:This ultamately is not about sin.....you only have a few excerpts to go on from the Bible, you have NO rational reason to disapprove of gay people. You simply think we're disgusting. its that simple.
atleast admit it, and ill have SOME respect for your debate.
I admit that I think homosexuality is disgusting. I do not think that people are disgusting. Like I said before, I see you as separate from your actions.
I've also never compared it to murder, theivery or pedophilia. my comparison was to a drug addict. If anyone is hurt by it it is the person doing it.
Originally posted by Lord Urizen
BAD ANALOGY my close minded freind. Alcoholism is nothing like sexual drive. We all have the right to enjoy sex. Being a homosexual is not harmful to one's self. Alcoholism is.Being a homosexual does not destroy your family, alcoholism does.
Alcoholism is a self induced addiction......Homosexuality is NOT self induced nor is it an addiction.....its a sexual orientation.
Dude you NEED to come up with better examples, because this only shows how LITTLE u know about the truth about gays.
Homsexuality doesn't destroy families? Who are you trying to convince? It breaks hearts and destroys families. You can blame religion if you like, but homosexuality is just as much to blame. When a man leaves his wife because he decides that he can't take it anymore because he's gay - that's a family destroyed, sometimes children are even involved. When religious parents learn that a child is "gay" - broken hearts right there. To say nothing of the stigma attached to the gay himself. No, homosexuality is quite destructive.
Originally posted by Lord Urizen
Gay marriage only benefits gays....no sh^t Sherlock.The same way straight marriages only benefit straights.
Traditional marriages benefit society. The family is what civilization is built on. Children of a traditional marriage have both a primary male and a primary female rolemodel.
The same cannot be said for gay unions.
Homsexuality doesn't destroy families? Who are you trying to convince? It breaks hearts and destroys families. You can blame religion if you like, but homosexuality is just as much to blame. When a man leaves his wife because he decides that he can't take it anymore because he's gay - that's a family destroyed, sometimes children are even involved. When religious parents learn that a child is "gay" - broken hearts right there. To say nothing of the stigma attached to the gay himself. No, homosexuality is quite destructive.
Yes you say you would rather have a gay man marry a woman then have to gay men marry eachother. Don't be a hypocrit dude, ur smarter than that.
Heartbroken ? You don't think the gay person was terrified to admit to his parents about who he is ? Get over it.....all he or she is doing is TELLING THE TRUTH about who they are.
Any parent who is heartbroken by the fact that his or her son or daughter is gay is brainwashed and needs to set thier priorities straight.
And yes it is devestating when a gay man leaves his wife and kids, but you said you would be okay with a gay man marrying a woman, and you'd prefer this to two gay men getting married to each other.....i dont get ur LOGIC.... ????
Society makes this devestating. Homosexuality is made to be a bigger deal than it actually is.
Open minded parents would not feel "heartbroken" or "betrayed" by thier children who come out. They would put the PRIORITY that it is thier CHILD and thier child is an individual PERSON with thier own LIFE and thier OWN RIGHTS......
its societies faults that adult parents would even feel this way, not the homosexuals fault, because religious and hateful societies only program people to thnk that being gay is like the ultamate abomination of being, and u guys are soooo wrong in that judgement.
You can point the finger at society or religion if you want.
The fact is that if that gay family man had been responsible, he either wouldn't have gotten married or he would have stuck with the family regardless of his personal desires. I have the same feeling about men who go out and leave their family for another woman.
Have you thought that the religious family might be right? It would be one thing if the kid said, I'm having these feelings and tried to fight it, it's completely another when he just gives in and goes to that lifestyle.
The main damage though is probably spiritual though, and we probably won't know the extent of it until the afterlife. We do have some indicators here though.
Gays are more promiscuous than most people. That doesn't mean that all gays are sleeping around, but more are than happens in the population as a whole.
STD's are markedly higher among homosexuals. More with men than women, but the statistical difference is there.
Drug use, alcohol abuse, and other detrimental lifestyle choices are higher among homosexuals than the general population.
The average homosexual leads a dangerous lifestyle. Again, not all gays are average, but it is an indicator.
I feel sorry for them, but I do believe that a human being can take control of their own life.
-edit-
And I don't think that gays are the ultimate abomination. That honor is reserved for child molestors. Gay actions are more comparable to extramartial affairs and drug abuse.
Honestly, I think a marriage made up based solely on sexual attraction would make a sad marriage anyways. Friendship should always be the foundation. No marriage based on trust and mutual understanding and friendship would be meaningless, regardless of sex.
By the way, I adhere to the christian maxim of love the sinner, hate the sin. You and I can be friends, but I can't approve of your lifestyle.
Ofcourse we could be freinds, no exchange of hatred is necessary, but its obvious that we have our FIRM states of mind and neither of us will budge.
You DONT HAVE TO approve of my lifestyle, i will NEVER NEED you to do so, just like you will never need me to approve of your Faith.
However, knowing that you would participate in limitting my freedom and therefore sabatoging my chances at possible happiness my DISallowing me to marry a man that i LOVE, i wouldn't want to be your freind.
The reason is ultamately because you would be disrespecting my FREE WILL, my ability to make my OWN choices independent of your approval, and over all infringing on my human and civil rights.
It all comes down that that bro. Sorry
Originally posted by Lord Urizen
[B]Honestly, I think a marriage made up based solely on sexual attraction would make a sad marriage anyways. Friendship should always be the foundation. No marriage based on trust and mutual understanding and friendship would be meaningless, regardless of sex.By the way, I adhere to the christian maxim of love the sinner, hate the sin. You and I can be friends, but I can't approve of your lifestyle.
Ofcourse we could be freinds, no exchange of hatred is necessary, but its obvious that we have our FIRM states of mind and neither of us will budge.
You DONT HAVE TO approve of my lifestyle, i will NEVER NEED you to do so, just like you will never need me to approve of your Faith.
However, knowing that you would participate in limitting my freedom and therefore sabatoging my chances at possible happiness my DISallowing me to marry a man that i LOVE, i wouldn't want to be your freind.
The reason is ultamately because you would be disrespecting my FREE WILL, my ability to make my OWN choices independent of your approval, and over all infringing on my human and civil rights.
It all comes down that that bro. Sorry [/B]
I understand that you see it that way, and I'm sorry that you feel that way. I wish you happiness, but I hope you understand where I'm coming from as well.
Gays are more promiscuous than most people. That doesn't mean that all gays are sleeping around, but more are than happens in the population as a whole.
Another unfair misconception. You do not like me generalizing Christians, so why do you generalize gays?
Gays make up for only 10% of the population, its impossible for gays to be more permiscious than staights, because 90% more straights exist than gays.
This is mislead information, and part of conservative propaganda.
Actually HIV is now more common among straight male hispanics, straight male whites, and most women. It might have STARTED breaking out into the gay society first, but what does it matter?
Diseases do not discriminate, they kill blindly and anyone they can.
I'm bisexual, and i ahve only had sex with two peolpe my entire life. One woman and one man. no threesome, these were diff relationships.
I am not a "****" or "permiscuous boy" so please don't classify me as one. I AM VERY PICKY AND SELECTIVE about who i date and who i have sex with, so your wayyy off base there.
It is true that many gay men have this lifestyle that does put thier own life at risk. But not ALL GAY MEN...u have not the slighest idea how many other gay men are. Please dont classify them that way.
SUPERFICIALITY is very high among many gay men, that i will admit. I hate that about gay people. But you gotta realize something......
Both Gay men and Straight Christian men are capable of the same hatred and the same prejudices. Niether is better or worse than the other.
I have learned this the hard way my freind. You think I LIKE ALL GAY GUYS ? HELLZ NO....but its not for the same reason you dont approve. I don't disapprove of thier sexuality, its thier business.
I disapprove of how prejudice a gay person can be to another gay person or to someone else, the SAME way i disapprove of how straight Christian conservatives are bias against almost every1 else.
PLEASE DUDE...if u learn anything from my arguments let it be this: lets not fight over our differences. ITS SUCH A WASTE.......we are all diverse and we all come from different faiths, beleifs, backgrounds.
However WE ALL own this world. This EARTH is ours we live here and dominate it. Instead of fighting each other for our differences, in real life, lets try and make this world a happier place for everyone as much as possible by fighting the real evils: poverty, hatred, drugs and war.
I don't mind generalizations about Christians, as long as there is some truth in them.
I hope you noticed my disclaimers on my generalizations. I know that not all gays are that way, but I've also seen the stats. I hope you didn't think that I automatically included you in that group.
I also happen to think that many Christians are bigots. I am a Christian, but I sure hope I'm not a bigot.
It's true that HIV has migrated somewhat, but for STD's in general, homosexual sex is still one of the big risk factors. That's why they ask you about it before you can donate blood.
Here's a website about homosexuality and disease:
http://www.thebody.com/sowadsky/gaymen.html
The cancer thing was actually a surprise to me, I knew that that virus could cause cancer, but I didn't make the connection.
We ARE ALL bigots in some way shape or form.
I may not discriminate based on race, sexual orienation, or religion per say.
But due to so many negative experiences, do i get scared to assossiate with religious people because i assume that they will automatically pass judgement on me, and minimize who I am by classifying me as a "***"....
its happened SO MANY TIMES already....so yes, thats a bias i have to get over.
But a more personal and deep rooted bias.....i have to admit i possess.
I may not be superficial, like many gay guys ARE, but i am a bit shallow and picky with who i date. I have to think someone is GORGEOUS or alteast very sexy in order to date them. Personality counts yes, but i dont give a person a chance at being with me if he or she isn't physically attractive in my opinion.
I AM VERYYYY PICKY....and i shouldnt be, cuz thats the main reason im lonely.
I mean im a pretty good lookn guy, by my own standards and by mannny other people's (www.myspace.com/darkalnyc ) if u wanna judge lol i duno or care, but the point is i dont know WHY i have this sort of bias.
IT DOES HURT PEOPLE...men and women when i reject them for reasons that they cannot understand. I never tell anyone thier ugly, i cant do that someone, but ill always make up an excuse when im not physically attractive.
I feel bad about this though.
I'm not much of a judge of guys, but you look like a decent fellow. I'd there'd be girls after you.
I guess I kinda share your bias. I'd never tell anyone that they were ugly, but attractive people do get preferential treatment from me (you should see me tip a hot waitress 😄 ). I don't treat other people bad, but you know...
Originally posted by docb77
here's a fairly non-religious anti-gay marriage article.
Nothing I mentioned was religious. In fact, there is nothing religious about gay marriage...in fact, there is nothing religious about modern marriage. Were the blessing of god involved in any modern marriage, then modern marriage would not exist. The sole factor is misunderstanding and bigotry. It's cool with me that any one who disapproves of gay activities speak up, but don't be offended or shocked when the converse happens.
Originally posted by Capt_Fantastic
I'm not much of a judge of guys, but you look like a decent fellow. I'd there'd be girls after you.I guess I kinda share your bias. I'd never tell anyone that they were ugly, but attractive people do get preferential treatment from me (you should see me tip a hot waitress ). I don't treat other people bad, but you know...
Thanks. Yes, that is a bias most of us all share.
It's called either being shallow or superficiality. I hate superficiality, but i DO possess it quite a bit.
I understand fully that this makes me a hypocrit. But i can't help it. I can't date someone that i am NOT physically attracted to. It will never work, no matter how sweet they are.
Ofcourse if a gorgeous person has a horrible personality, i let them go. I can't tolerate cruelty either.
But i do feel bad about the fact that ive hurt many men and women's feelings by rejecting them (based on the fact that thier not my "type"😉
How do you change this ? I know i wouldn't be so lonely if i wasnt so picky.....ive only had two major relationships in my life, and i duno
Originally posted by docb77
By the way, I adhere to the christian maxim of love the sinner, hate the sin. You and I can be friends, but I can't approve of your lifestyle.
Not real friends.
Originally posted by docb77
I would agree that chronic hatred and closedmindedness are both diseases. Probably worse than homosexuality.
possibly?
Originally posted by docb77
As far as my own health
Your own health is a non issue when it comes to homosexual activity. Unless you have sex with a gay man, "YOUR HEALTH" is not relevant, nor should it be brought up in this discussion.
Originally posted by docb77
I admit that I think homosexuality is disgusting. I do not think that people are disgusting. Like I said before, I see you as separate from your actions.
"Seperate, but Equal" has always worked out well for humanity, hasn't it?
Originally posted by docb77
Homsexuality doesn't destroy families?.
Originally posted by docb77
It breaks hearts and destroys families.
What does?
Originally posted by docb77
When a man leaves his wife because he decides that he can't take it anymore because he's gay - that's a family is destroyed,
Yes! I agree with you. But my difference in opinion is that that family should never have existed in the first place.
Originally posted by docb77
Traditional marriages benefit society. The family is what civilization is built on. Children of a traditional marriage have both a primary male and a primary female rolemodel.The same cannot be said for gay unions.
Explain to me how civilization is built on the family, or teh straight marriage for that matter. That is simply a false positive in teh argument. This assumption is another in a long line of uneducated assumptions by those who place religion above reality.
Originally posted by docb77
True, which is why there is a movement to get an ammendment in place protecting the traditional definition of marriage. But honestly laws come from experience and history. Some things change with the times, but some truths are immutable. When looking at change we shouldn't just throw out the old, we should consider it, make sure we understand why it was the way it was and see what changed that requires the change.
Bah!!!! Some truths are indisputable? Since when has marriage been a truth? The whole concept of marriage, of binding union, is vastly different today from "the olden days" - it annoys me so much when people seem to claim that the first man and women to come down from the trees brought with them the Christian concept of marriage - the so called traditional concept.
I have met gays, and lesbians, but never a gay virgin...
???
Honestly, I think a marriage made up based solely on sexual attraction would make a sad marriage anyways. Friendship should always be the foundation. No marriage based on trust and mutual understanding and friendship would be meaningless, regardless of sex.
Just for the sake of it a gay couple is not just about sexual attraction, just as a heterosexual couple isn't just about that. A gay couple is just as capable of being friends, of having trust and mutual understanding as any heterosexual couple. I'd say maybe even more so, but I wont.
I admit that I think homosexuality is disgusting. I do not think that people are disgusting. Like I said before, I see you as separate from your actions.
A very open minded view, I'll give you that.
I've also never compared it to murder, theivery or pedophilia. my comparison was to a drug addict. If anyone is hurt by it it is the person doing it.
I can give you a list as long as my arm the harm drugs cause a person (the whole self victimisation), but I doubt I could put down even 5 things about how homosexuality hurts the homosexual, and even then they would mostly be things like "if you are a homosexual you will face bias from society"
Homsexuality doesn't destroy families? Who are you trying to convince? It breaks hearts and destroys families. You can blame religion if you like, but homosexuality is just as much to blame. When a man leaves his wife because he decides that he can't take it anymore because he's gay - that's a family destroyed, sometimes children are even involved. When religious parents learn that a child is "gay" - broken hearts right there. To say nothing of the stigma attached to the gay himself. No, homosexuality is quite destructive.
How poetic. Broken hearts. You seem to be implying gay people make a habit of getting married, having kids and then leaving their wife. Fact - in todays more liberal world there are far fewer men and women forcing themselves into heterosexual relationships for the wrong reasons - like appeasing unacepting parents. And it's a gay persons fault their "religious parents" can't accept the way they are? I mean, you could say the same if hard line Christians have a child who wants to convert to Islam - that's a broken heart too it would seem.
Traditional marriages benefit society. The family is what civilization is built on. Children of a traditional marriage have both a primary male and a primary female rolemodel.The same cannot be said for gay unions.
Me, I'd think just promoting love, understanding and equality would be whats good for society - for all men and women. What are your views on divorce? Single mothers? Mixed families? Adoption? Foster care? Surrogates? Marriage isn't as clear cut now as it was before. Hasn't been for some time. And you know what? Society is still here, ticking along.
Nor Do I....
I do not plan on getting married because I am attracted to both men and women....i just can't imagine SOLIDIFYING a relationship with a person of one gender and giving the other gender up ENTIRELY
unless my partner is a swinger lol
However there are gay people who DO want marriage, and i thnk it is thier right to have this. They should be able to marry whoever they want, religious oppression is being done to them by denying thier right to do so.