Just curious here, Capt_Fantastic, did you even bother to try to understand what I meant? From your comments I'm thinking no. example: when I said health I was speaking in regards to those illnesses previously mentioned, namely hatred and closed-mindedness.
If you're going to argue with someone, at least try to understand what they're saying first.
Imperial Samura for example, I think he pretty much got the gist of my message. I get that we don't agree, but he mostly responded with valid points.
Originally posted by docb77
Just curious here, Capt_Fantastic, did you even bother to try to understand what I meant? From your comments I'm thinking no. example: when I said health I was speaking in regards to those illnesses previously mentioned, namely hatred and closed-mindedness.If you're going to argue with someone, at least try to understand what they're saying first.
Imperial Samura for example, I think he pretty much got the gist of my message. I get that we don't agree, but he mostly responded with valid points.
Oh yes, I understood. I understood that you were saying that hatred and closed-mindedness were a disease worse than homosexuality. And if you expect me to condone the notion that homosexuality is a disease, then you are fooling yourself in regards to my position. All I have to go on is what you say, when it comes to your opinion.
How can you guys say Homosexuality is a disease?
Diseases destroy your body or mind. Being a homosexual does not destroy your body, nor does it make you mentally ill in any way.
It's not a disease. But yes, Docb....close mindedness and Hatred CAN BE poisonous to one's being.
And don't feed me any bull$#$ about how gay people put thier health in danger or w/e.....Straight people have the SAME RISK when they have unprotected sex as well, so don't try that example, it wont work.
Being a homosexual does not harm oneself. Being permiscious yes, but there are straight, gay, and bisexual people who are permiscuous, so its not a "gay' issue.
I don't think homosexuality is any worse than any kind of promiscuousness. Affairs are bad too. And there are people who claim to be sex addicts. That's a disease too, in the same way.
As far as whether or not a person is harmed by being gay, well, I bet that they are spiritually, but we'll never know for sure, because to find out we'd have to a straight person who's willing to "be gay" for a while (actually we'd have to find a bunch). Then we could measure the mental health/sense of well being/spirituality both before the experiment and after. Thing is we'd never find enough willing participants.
So, yeah, I think in the long run being gay is bad for you. In the short run? Probably makes no difference.
Docb77...that's what you don't understand my freind.
YOU CANT MAKE A STRAIGHT PERSON GAY...they will NEVER ENJOY IT
JUST LIKE YOU CAN NEVER MAKE A GAY PERSON STRAIGHT..they will NEVER ENJOY IT
That experiment will ultamately FAIL 👇
If it good for your spirit ? Is being with the person you LOVE not good for your spirit ?
Come on Docb77, i KNOW your smarter than this. I KNOW you are more than capable of thinking outside the box.....
Originally posted by docb77
I don't think homosexuality is any worse than any kind of promiscuousness.
this is where your argument fails, on all accounts. You don't deny that homosexuality is not a "disease". Instead, you compare it to absolute "promiscuousness". That is absurd. I know of few gay couples that have remained faithful, but because most of my friends are straight, I know of even fewer straight couples that have remained faithful to one another.
And I won't even get started on teh number of gay people in more rural regions that fall back on "unscrupulous" behavior, based solely on the fact that they can't operate honestly in American society. To admit to being gay, and living that way implies a huge number of social and economical(based on their job) implications that can not be ignored.
There's a reason people hide in the closet in this day and age.
Actually, that's not true. I always assume that other gay people are going to have the same "go fu*k yourself" attitude that I have, which is unfair.
Originally posted by Lord Urizen
Docb77...that's what you don't understand my freind.YOU CANT MAKE A STRAIGHT PERSON GAY...they will NEVER ENJOY IT
JUST LIKE YOU CAN NEVER MAKE A GAY PERSON STRAIGHT..they will NEVER ENJOY IT
That experiment will ultamately FAIL 👇
If it good for your spirit ? Is being with the person you LOVE not good for your spirit ?
Come on Docb77, i [B]KNOW
your smarter than this. I KNOW you are more than capable of thinking outside the box..... [/B]
How can we be so sure a person can't "turn gay" or "turn straight" we (leftists) always point out Christians (most) lack of proof to support their arguments. Now I know homosexuality, heterosexuality and bisexuality all happen in nature but what makes us so sure you can't change your sexuality through psychological treatment?
And the "they wouldn't enjoy it" part, sex at least they would.
Just so we're clear I'm not suggesting homosexuality can be changed, I just have an open mind and I'd rather not feel completely strongly on an issue I don't have any proof to back it up with.
Originally posted by Eis
Do you have any way to prove that? I'm not arguing for the argument's sake, I'm simply curious.How can we be so sure a person can't "turn gay" or "turn straight" we (leftists) always point out Christians (most) lack of proof to support their arguments. Now I know homosexuality, heterosexuality and bisexuality all happen in nature but what makes us so sure you can't change your sexuality through psychological treatment?
And the "they wouldn't enjoy it" part, sex at least they would.
Just so we're clear I'm not suggesting homosexuality can be changed, I just have an open mind and I'd rather not feel completely strongly on an issue I don't have any proof to back it up with.
Why turn them straight when they can be happy gay? Seems like a worthless attempt, even if it works.
Originally posted by MC Mike
Why turn them straight when they can be happy gay? Seems like a worthless attempt, even if it works.
Do I know if it can't be changed through Psychiatric type of treatment?
No, I don't know that. It's possible !
Do I know that you can't change it yourself? Yes....
Look at Governor McGrievey's case for example, if you read his book you'll see that he would force himself to masturbate to PlayBoy centerfolds to try to "shift" his sexual impulses, but it never worked.
He's tried for almost 30 years, to no avail. He's 40 now, and he's finally accepted and come out about being GAY....end of story.
You can't change or CHOOSE your own desires...you can only choose to ignore them which only leads to more pain and self denial in the end.
But if many homosexuals DO want to change.....by all means, let them try it. But do not suggest that the homosexuals who are HAPPY with who they are should change a damn thing about themselves.
Even though ALL consenting couples, whether they be straight couples or gay couples, DESERVE the right to be married....
I don't think Marriage is for everyone.
Marriage is not sacred, its not permanant, its not a guarantee of anything. It's just a HUMAN CEREMONY..... People get Divorced ALL THE TIME
Marriage fails so frequently, people VERY OFTEN get married for the wrong reasons, people beleive that when you are married, God or some other force ensures that your relationship is now spiritually guarded....
Bull$#$.........Marriage is JUST A HUMAN CEREMONY and it's only as powerful as we let it be.
So many people assume that human sexuality, or sexuality in any species, is a black and white issue. And that simply isn't true. I think a lot of the contention about homosexuality comes from people who realize this about themselves, but think there's something wrong with themselves for not being black and white on the issue.
I have straight friends that have had gay experiences and I have had straight experiences myself. Now, I'm pretty sure I'm 100% gay, and I'm sure most of you would agree with me. However, if being 100% gay meant that I had zero attraction to women, then I would have had a hard time getting an erection when I had my straight experiences. (no pun intended) But I didn't have any. And the "straight" guys I've had experiences with didn't seem to have any problems either.
You can be attracted to a person, rather than a gender.
True Capt Fantastic...
But if you DONT LIKE WOMEN..they you DONT like Women. You can't make youself.
If you DON'T like Men, then you Don't like Men.....you can't MAKE yourself.
I'm bisexual, and although I PREFER women to men, i still like women to a degree. I do get aroused at the site of a gorgeous naked woman, but it does NOT arouse me to the EXTANT that a gorgeous naked man does.
Your not 100% gay, no 1 is. Just like no one is 100% straight.
But your still usually MORE towards one than the other. However, you can't say your 100% gay if you are slightly attracted to women.
I know there are gay people who claim to have been attracted to a woman once or twice, and same for straights in terms of being bi curious....
but I beleive that is all bisexuality.
My best freind Sarah is straight, and she would NEVER mess around with a girl, she gets grossed out by the idea of it.
Originally posted by Lord Urizen
But if you DONT LIKE WOMEN..they you DONT like Women. You can't make youself.
I agree 100% That's where my comment on liking a person for who they are, regardless of their gender becomes relevant. I've had male friends that are NOT attractive, but because of their personality, I eventually found them attractive. And it's the same with the straight experiences. I've never met a girl out ot a club and gone home with her. Ever. All those experiences occured after I got to know them and/or dated them for a while. And that was years ago.
Originally posted by Lord Urizen
Do I know if it can't be changed through Psychiatric type of treatment?No, I don't know that. It's possible !
Do I know that you can't change it yourself? Yes....
Look at Governor McGrievey's case for example, if you read his book you'll see that he would force himself to masturbate to PlayBoy centerfolds to try to "shift" his sexual impulses, but it never worked.
He's tried for almost 30 years, to no avail. He's 40 now, and he's finally accepted and come out about being GAY....end of story.
You can't change or CHOOSE your own desires...you can only choose to ignore them which only leads to more pain and self denial in the end.
But if many homosexuals DO want to change.....by all means, let them try it. But do not suggest that the homosexuals who are HAPPY with who they are should change a damn thing about themselves.
I personally like Capt said don't think it's a black and white issue... But I don't know...
But if you DONT LIKE WOMEN..they you DONT like Women. You can't make youself.