4 Reasons Gay Marriage Should Be Legal in the USA!

Originally posted by Nellinator
The human genome project performed within your nation was successful in mapping the 25 000 (much lower than anticipated) genes of the human body. It was found that none control the behavioral traits, but only physical development and appearance. There is NO homosexual gene. Homosexuality is the result of experience through childhood through to sexual maturity. It is therefore deeply imbedded in the minds of the person, but is reversible, though it may be very unlikely that they could be reversed even through intense therapy.

As Storm pointed out, there are many physiological differences between the two males. And, if genetics govern physical development, then how far behind that notion can be the role of genes? If a part of my brain develops differently from my straight brother's, did I decide for that to happen? And when this development, or lack of, is found across the board in one sexual orientation v. another, then did I choose for that to be the case at some point?

Or perhaps we can take the Sithsabre approach and say that region of my brain developed differently because my father molested me when I was too young to remember it.

Originally posted by Capt_Fantastic
"Proof to prove" is all well and good. But, I know myself. It took a few years to figure myself out, but I know very well about myself. I don't know from gay sheep, but I know me. When I was 8 I watched He-Man...thought it was the greatest show ever. Now when I watch it, it seem childish and inane. I grew up. But, when I was 8 I liked boys...now that I'm 26, I still like boys. I used to love Cool Ranch Doritos, now the smell of them makes my stomach turn.

Perhaps you are in tune with yourself enough to know you won't limit your options to simply being gay or simply being straight. I addressed the fact that I've had relationships with women. But I think what must be considered in all of this, is the emotion involved in a relationship between two people. Homosexuality, as you know, isn't all about sex. Being gay involves the emotions behind your interaction with another person. If it was just about sex, then we could believe what Whob and Sithsabre say...that it is giving in to a desire to "sin". That it represents human excess. That it can be compared to beastiality or incest. But it isn't just about sex. And people who denounce it are doing just that, looking only at the physical aspect of it. But being gay is much more complex. It's exactly like being straight. There are emotional attachments to people, care, concern, anger, frustration, fear... It's not all about what makes you cum. And, for me, I've always known what I wanted. I might not have been honest with others, but I've always been honest with myself. I can't address the concept of "finding out" or "figuring out" I was gay. I've known for a very long time. I've never denied it to myself, but I have denied it to others. But that doesn't change what I am.

And, there is a lot of evidence for the genetic cauaslity. It isn't absolute and far from concrete...but it's there. And I'm not sure how there could be physical proof of it being a choice made on any conscious level, since that isn't physical.

As for the guy who went straight and "cleaned up" his act, as society becomes more and more open minded and accepting of the situation, I think you'll see that happen less and less. I'm also dubious of any "evidence" that comes from christian conservative web sites.

Now for the mentally challenged I'm not a self-hating homosexual, I accepted I liked men some time ago, I came out to my friends, etc. But I still like to have the benefit of the doubt on the origin of my homosexuality and sexual orentation in general. Which is something I think we should all have, the doubt.

Originally posted by Capt_Fantastic
As Storm pointed out, there are many physiological differences between the two males. And, if genetics govern physical development, then how far behind that notion can be the role of genes? If a part of my brain develops differently from my straight brother's, did I decide for that to happen? And when this development, or lack of, is found across the board in one sexual orientation v. another, then did I choose for that to be the case at some point?

Or perhaps we can take the Sithsabre approach and say that region of my brain developed differently because my father molested me when I was too young to remember it.

Genes merely ensure that you have a brain and that its parts are within reasonable proportions. From then on the experiences of your life are collected in the cerebrum where you form your personality based on the beliefs you have been given by those around you and from the memories you possess that would influence this personality. This is why brain surgery , which can damage the cerbral cortex, can cause changes in personality.

Originally posted by Eis
When I was 8 I loved pickles, I ate pickles everyday. Now I hate them, I can't stand the smell. People change, how can we be so hypocrital by calling Sithsaber close minded if we ourselves completely believe homosexuality and bisexuality are both genetical, knowing there is no scientific proof to prove this.

All I'm saying is people should really keep an open mind, if you think homosexuality is genetic or otherwise, that's great but if there is no proof to back it up then it's logical to accept that it may not be so.

There is over 30 years of scientific research that sexual orientation is an immutable characteristic.

Homosexuals are biologically different from heterosexuals, i.e. the brain structure, inner-ear, and fingerprints of homosexuals are different than those of heterosexuals, and homosexuals are genetically different from heterosexuals, i.e. homosexuals share a genetic marker and stretches of DNA that are not shared by heterosexuals.

If you would like to debate the issue further, you can do so in the "Homosexuality: Chosen or Genetic?" thread.

Originally posted by Eis
Until I was like 11 or something I never thought of other males in a sexual way as I did with women.

So my homosexuality never was from the begining...

Now for the mentally challenged I'm not a self-hating homosexual, I accepted I liked men some time ago, I came out to my friends, etc. But I still like to have the benefit of the doubt on the origin of my homosexuality and sexual orentation in general. Which is something I think we should all have, the doubt.

As as I said:

Originally posted by Capt_Fantastic
I can't address the concept of "finding out" or "figuring out" I was gay. I've known for a very long time.

I've never known any other way to be. I don't think you're self hating, nor am I arguing the point because I think you're wrong. We are just two different people who have experienced life in two different ways. I remember wanting to find women attractive, wanting to be like everyone else. But, the mind goes where it wants to when you're masturbating.

And understand I'm not really arguing with you, just sharing my experiences. I'm just no good at being ambiguous, on this subject or any other.

Originally posted by Nellinator
Genes merely ensure that you have a brain and that its parts are within reasonable proportions. From then on the experiences of your life are collected in the cerebrum where you form your personality based on the beliefs you have been given by those around you and from the memories you possess that would influence this personality. This is why brain surgery , which can damage the cerbral cortex, can cause changes in personality.

Genes don't really ensure anything. If the body was built on one repetative gene, that might be the case. But, as it is, genes turn on and off when needed. So, while genes ensure that you grow a brain, they might also ensure you have an extra finger or one testicle.

And what you say about teh brain storing memories etc and that is the basis for your personality, you're right. But I think that has more to do with issues like what I like to do during sex, not which gender I want to have that sex with.

Originally posted by Adam_PoE
There is over 30 years of scientific research that sexual orientation is an immutable characteristic.

Homosexuals are biologically different from heterosexuals, i.e. the brain structure, inner-ear, and fingerprints of homosexuals are different than those of heterosexuals, and homosexuals are genetically different from heterosexuals, i.e. homosexuals share a genetic marker and stretches of DNA that are not shared by heterosexuals.

If you would like to debate the issue further, you can do so in the "Homosexuality: Chosen or Genetic?" thread.

However, if those studies are indeed accurate, then how can there be room for debate? How can there even be a thread on the topic. Are there loopholes to the studies?

Until I was like 11 or something I never thought of other males in a sexual way as I did with women. When I first started masturbating I would only think about women, I loved women. A couple of years later I started to masturbate thinking about men as well... I liked it and I completely stopped thinking about women when doing it. After a while I was completely not attracted to females... they simply didn't turn me on, AT ALL.

Similiar situation to me. When i was young i was only interested romantically in women. I did like men a little bit, but not as much as women.

As i got older i sorta stopped liking women as much, and started to like men more.

WHY? i duno

I like both today. But I like men so much better.

Waht caused the change? Who knows..but i dont identify myself as Gay or Straight. I identify as bisexual.

If you want to go by LABELS, then perhaps the entirety of your situation would count as bisexuality.

In Capt Fantastic's case however, there was no change.

Everyone's brain works differently. MAYBE it is possible for SOME people to change thier sexuality, but probably impossible for others.

In the last month or so I realized I was still sometimes attracted to women, but mostly men so I still label myself as gay. So my homosexuality never was from the begining...

You're bisexual. Not homosexual. Bisexuality comes in ALL forms, skewed more towards men, more towards women, or 50/50.

You're not really Gay.

Now for the mentally challenged I'm not a self-hating homosexual, I accepted I liked men some time ago, I came out to my friends, etc. But I still like to have the benefit of the doubt on the origin of my homosexuality and sexual orentation in general. Which is something I think we should all have, the doubt.

Again according to everything you have shared with us, i beleive you are bisexual. I have a VERY SIMILIAR situation to yours, and i identify myself as bisexual, not gay.

Sorry bro, from WHAT you've said, i thnk you are bisexual not gay.

I've never known any other way to be. I don't think you're self hating, nor am I arguing the point because I think you're wrong. We are just two different people who have experienced life in two different ways. I remember wanting to find women attractive, wanting to be like everyone else. But, the mind goes where it wants to when you're masturbating.

And understand I'm not really arguing with you, just sharing my experiences. I'm just no good at being ambiguous, on this subject or any other.

Originally posted by Eis
Are there loopholes to the studies?

There are as many opinions as there are experts. -Franklin D Roosevelt

Originally posted by Eis
Until I was like 11 or something I never thought of other males in a sexual way as I did with women. When I first started masturbating I would only think about women, I loved women. A couple of years later I started to masturbate thinking about men as well... I liked it and I completely stopped thinking about women when doing it. After a while I was completely not attracted to females... they simply didn't turn me on, AT ALL.
In the last month or so I realized I was still sometimes attracted to women, but mostly men so I still label myself as gay. So my homosexuality never was from the begining...

Now for the mentally challenged I'm not a self-hating homosexual, I accepted I liked men some time ago, I came out to my friends, etc. But I still like to have the benefit of the doubt on the origin of my homosexuality and sexual orentation in general. Which is something I think we should all have, the doubt.

Psychologist find that a curiosity or interest in sex or sexuality during early childhood or pre-pubescence is an indicator of bisexuality.

If having "the benefit of the doubt" in regards to the origin of your sexual orientation allows you to feel more comfortable, then so be it. But do not ascribe this doubt to anyone else.

Originally posted by Eis
No I know, but it's just, were homosexuality genetic then how was it possible for me to not be attracted to other males in my youth. (1 - 11)

I spent more time at those ages wanting to be Darth Vader and watching Thunder Cats than I did thinking about sex. But, as for you, I can't comment on that. That's all you man. I can only speak from my perspective and I knew I liked other guys then. I'm sure everyone's experience will vary from one person to the next.

Originally posted by Adam_PoE
Psychologist find that a curiosity or interest in sex or sexuality during early childhood or pre-pubescence is an indicator of bisexuality.

If having "the benefit of the doubt" in regards to the origin of your sexual orientation allows you to feel more comfortable, then so be it. But do not ascribe this doubt to anyone else.

Leftists always complain about how stupid it is that Christians follow Jesus and God, they blindly support something, same with patriots yet many of us do blindly follow things too, we think being leftist alone makes you open minded. Well no, we should all be open to all posibilites. Being hard headed and close minded won't get us far.

Originally posted by Capt_Fantastic
I spent more time at those ages wanting to be Darth Vader and watching Thunder Cats than I did thinking about sex. But, as for you, I can't comment on that. That's all you man. I can only speak from my perspective and I knew I liked other guys then. I'm sure everyone's experience will vary from one person to the next.

Originally posted by Eis
It's not that it makes me feel more comfortable. It's more that it's stupid and hypocrital to call someone close-minded if we are ourselves.

Leftists always complain about how stupid it is that Christians follow Jesus and God, they blindly support something, same with patriots yet many of us do blindly follow things too, we think being leftist alone makes you open minded. Well no, we should all be open to all posibilites. Being hard headed and close minded won't get us far.

I understand your point. However, not all possibilities deserve equal consideration. To quote physicsit Stephen J. Gould, "I suppose that apples might start to rise tomorrow, but the possibility does not merit equal time in physics classrooms."

😉

Originally posted by Eis
I started being interested in sex when I was like in my late 10's, is that not normal?

It may be a-normal as compared to your peers, but may be perfectly normal as compared to your personal development, i.e. if you were an "early bloomer."

Originally posted by Eis
I started being interested in sex when I was like in my late 10's, is that not normal?

It's completely normal. But it's also completely normal for you.

And I don't think that agreeing with the studies that indicate that it's genetic is being closed minded. And there's a big difference between saying that there's nothing you can do to change your sexual orientation and a christian conservative who would make it illegal to be openly gay if they could.

I want the right to get married to another man. I am not implying that christians should not be allowed to worship and for them to take their religious choices underground...meeting in seedy basements in the red light district to get their weekly fix of Jesus.

I think that the equality that is so flaunted by the politicians in this country should apply to everyone equally. And you live in China, so I imagine government interference is heavier than it is here. But, at least in China, the president doesn't make claims that he was elected by god.

Originally posted by Capt_Fantastic
It's completely normal. But it's also completely normal for you.

And I don't think that agreeing with the studies that indicate that it's genetic is being closed minded. And there's a big difference between saying that there's nothing you can do to change your sexual orientation and a christian conservative who would make it illegal to be openly gay if they could.

I want the right to get married to another man. I am not implying that christians should not be allowed to worship and for them to take their religious choices underground...meeting in seedy basements in the red light district to get their weekly fix of Jesus.

I think that the equality that is so flaunted by the politicians in this country should apply to everyone equally. And you live in China, so I imagine government interference is heavier than it is here. But, at least in China, the president doesn't make claims that he was elected by god.

What bothers me is when people claim christian conservatives are close minded, when them themselves are as well. Which is something that happens often. And well I believe it's better we keep our minds open to all possibilites but I also agree with what Adam Poe said. "not all possibilities deserve equal consideration. "

Originally posted by Capt_Fantastic
Don't worry, I don't think that was a direct challenge to your uber straightness. You are still teh hottest guy the universe has ever know, and the b*tches still fear your manliness.

✅

Originally posted by PrincessMary
Isn't this basically saying the same thing? Homosexuality is discusting, so don't you think that the homosexual themselves is also discusting?

Yes--both are.