Originally posted by Bardock42
Well, but isn't the reasoning that if they don't work against sin that their God would refuse them?
Originally posted by Bardock42
Yes, and that relates to my question how?
I thought I did answer your question? Perhaps you could rephase it, as I seem to have misunderstood.
Originally posted by Bardock42
Don't christians believe it is their business because their God tells them to make the world they live in sin free?
Christians can certainly believe it is their business, it doesn't mean it is right for them to go around telling us all how to live our lives. What about those who follow the Pagan religion? They're God, or Goddess, as you will, accepts homosexuality. This must mean it is the Pagan's business to tell us all that homosexuality is normal and natural. The two religions will clash. How do we decide which religion, if any, is right in their views?
Originally posted by PrincessMary
Christians can certainly believe it is their business, it doesn't mean it is right for them to go around telling us all how to live our lives. What about those who follow the Pagan religion? They're God, or Goddess, as you will, accepts homosexuality. This must mean it is the Pagan's business to tell us all that homosexuality is normal and natural. The two religions will clash. How do we decide which religion, if any, is right in their views?
Everyone decides for themself and then the majority does?
Originally posted by Bardock42
Everyone decides for themself and then the majority does?
I think we should all be free to decide whether or not homosexuality is wrong, or if gays and lesbians deserve the right to be married. I do not believe anyone should be forcing their beliefs on anyone. If you believe that homosexuality is wrong, that's fine, just don't preach about it. Same to those who believe homosexuality is normal. Everyone has the right to his or her opinion, what we don't have the right to is forcing our beliefs on another.
Originally posted by PrincessMary
I think we should all be free to decide whether or not homosexuality is wrong, or if gays and lesbians deserve the right to be married. I do not believe anyone should be forcing their beliefs on anyone. If you believe that homosexuality is wrong, that's fine, just don't preach about it. Same to those who believe homosexuality is normal. Everyone has the right to his or her opinion, what we don't have the right to is forcing our beliefs on another.
But you see that that is also oinly your opinion. And although I agree, someone else might believe that it is their duty even to voice their opinion and force others to agree. And why shoudl their opinion be less valid?
Originally posted by Bardock42
But you see that that is also oinly your opinion. And although I agree, someone else might believe that it is their duty even to voice their opinion and force others to agree. And why shoudl their opinion be less valid?
You have a point. I think we need to decide what is actually right. Is it right for people to force their beliefs on others? Would this be a good thing or a bad thing? Is it better for people to keep quiet about their opinions? Is this better than speaking out about it? Having someone force their beliefs on another will only cause trouble. The Government needs to look into it, and decide on an agreement which benifits both sides.
Originally posted by PrincessMary
You have a point. I think we need to decide what is actually right. Is it right for people to force their beliefs on others? Would this be a good thing or a bad thing? Is it better for people to keep quiet about their opinions? Is this better than speaking out about it? Having someone force their beliefs on another will only cause trouble. The Government needs to look into it, and decide on an agreement which benifits both sides.
Well, i don't see an agreement between people who think one shouldn't force their beliefs on others and those that do.
Also, how do you think we could be able to even find out what is right and what wrong?
Originally posted by Bardock42
Also, how do you think we could be able to even find out what is right and what wrong?
It is hard to know what is right and what is wrong. Many people believe that homosexuality is chosen. If it is chosen, would this mean that it is wrong? What if it isn't chosen? What if scientists can prove that there really is a homosexuality gene? Would this mean homosexuality is normal?
The reason I believe homosexuality to be normal, and not chosen, is simply because of what it is: Sexuality.
If people chose to be gay, people must then chose to be straight. It must work both ways. Why would people chose to be straight? Because they know they are straight, or because they believe that homosexuality is unnatural?
At which point in our lives do we chose our sexuality? When we reach legal age? In our early teens, we already have boyfriends/girlfriends, so we must already be fairly sure of our sexual identity. Do we stand at a crossroads at one stage in our lives, and contemplate which path to follow? The path to homosexuality, or the path to heterosexuality? A homosexual will not chose the heterosexual path, because heterosexual is something they are not, and never will be. Likewise for heterosexuals.
What argument can religion come up with to explain their opinion that homosexuality is unnatural and chosen? So far, all I have heard is 'The Bible says it is wrong, and people chose to be gay', without backing up any of their claims. Maybe you can. 🙂
Originally posted by Nellinator
Many religous people such as myself believe civil unions are wrong because they afford the same rights as marriage without the sanctity of God.
I say let the fags get their tax breaks because no matter what they believe, they will be discriminated against for their sexuality whether or not gay marriage is legalized.
Originally posted by Capt_Fantastic
But Eis, you have to know yourself well enought to know what turns you on and what doesn't. Or with whom you can sometimes picture yourself getting old.
All I'm saying is people should really keep an open mind, if you think homosexuality is genetic or otherwise, that's great but if there is no proof to back it up then it's logical to accept that it may not be so.
But, you're missing my point. I wasn't sexually attracted to the WOMAN, I was sexually attracted to teh person who possesed that personality. There was little romance involved in my high school relationships...or any one's high school relationships for that matter.
I understand. But in order to say that you were fully attracted to her, you had to be both emotionally AND physically attracted. If you lacked the physical attraction, then you were not entirely attracted to her.
If her body serves an "obstacle" to you, then you were not fully attracted to her.
Therefore you were not attracted to women, so you are not bisexual. You are gay.
And I might add that those relationships occured based solely on my desire to fit in as a person, not from my desire.
Then they did not count.
If my desires were the deciding factor, then I would have been sleeping with my best friend at the time. (No Burl, it wasn't Juan)
What do you mean here, I'm lost ?
When I was 8 I loved pickles, I ate pickles everyday. Now I hate them, I can't stand the smell.
HORRIBLE EXAMPLE 👇
There are MASSIVE DIFFERENCES between your taste in food and your sexual attractions. MAJOR...why bother with this kind of analogy?
People change, how can we be so hypocrital by calling Sithsaber close minded if we ourselves completely believe homosexuality and bisexuality are both genetical, knowing there is no scientific proof to prove this.
Genetic, as in born with? No there's no proof. A PHYSICAL characteristic as well as a mental one ? Yes theres proof. They have done experiments on a gay sheep which showed thats its cerebrum and sexual gland was totally different than that of a straight sheep's. The scientist herself stated that once this came into development, its FIXED....theres no changing it.
You would have to RE ARRANGE the structure of the BRAIN to change one's sexuality.
Yes, Sithsaber is a hypocrit and his opinion is INVALID...he is not gay, therefore he would never speak for a gay person, or claim to know anything about thier sexuality first hand.
All I'm saying is people should really keep an open mind, if you think homosexuality is genetic or otherwise, that's great but if there is no proof to back it up then it's logical to accept that it may not be so.
But most debators have not been using logic to back this up, only religious doctrine.
And you guys tend to ignore any Logic that would support the idea that homosexuality, like heterosexuality, is FIXED and irreversible.
I already gave you proof with my sheep example....i will not try to change your mind any further if you are not convinced.
Sexual attraction, taste in food... It call comes back to: Likes. I changed my likes.
Originally posted by Lord Urizen
[B]When I was 8 I loved pickles, I ate pickles everyday. Now I hate them, I can't stand the smell.HORRIBLE EXAMPLE 👇
There are MASSIVE DIFFERENCES between your taste in food and your sexual attractions. MAJOR...why bother with this kind of analogy?
People change, how can we be so hypocrital by calling Sithsaber close minded if we ourselves completely believe homosexuality and bisexuality are both genetical, knowing there is no scientific proof to prove this.
Genetic, as in born with? No there's no proof. A PHYSICAL characteristic as well as a mental one ? Yes theres proof. They have done experiments on a gay sheep which showed thats its cerebrum and sexual gland was totally different than that of a straight sheep's. The scientist herself stated that once this came into development, its FIXED....theres no changing it.
You would have to RE ARRANGE the structure of the BRAIN to change one's sexuality.
Yes, Sithsaber is a hypocrit and his opinion is INVALID...he is not gay, therefore he would never speak for a gay person, or claim to know anything about thier sexuality first hand.
All I'm saying is people should really keep an open mind, if you think homosexuality is genetic or otherwise, that's great but if there is no proof to back it up then it's logical to accept that it may not be so.
But most debators have not been using logic to back this up, only religious doctrine.
And you guys tend to ignore any Logic that would support the idea that homosexuality, like heterosexuality, is FIXED and irreversible.
I already gave you proof with my sheep example....i will not try to change your mind any further if you are not convinced. [/B]
I am open to all possibilities, even that YOUR religion may be right. I however am undecided, and when it comes to FACT i only accept FACTS that are proven. When it comes to beleif and theory, i don't think anything is right or wrong, just beleifs until they can be proven FACT
But most debators have not been using logic to back this up, only religious doctrine.And you guys tend to ignore any Logic that would support the idea that homosexuality, like heterosexuality, is FIXED and irreversible.
I already gave you proof with my sheep example....i will not try to change your mind any further if you are not convinced
Originally posted by Lord Urizen
I already gave you proof with my sheep example....i will not try to change your mind any further if you are not convinced.
The human genome project performed within your nation was successful in mapping the 25 000 (much lower than anticipated) genes of the human body. It was found that none control the behavioral traits, but only physical development and appearance. There is NO homosexual gene. Homosexuality is the result of experience through childhood through to sexual maturity. It is therefore deeply imbedded in the minds of the person, but is reversible, though it may be very unlikely that they could be reversed even through intense therapy.
Originally posted by Eis
When I was 8 I loved pickles, I ate pickles everyday. Now I hate them, I can't stand the smell. People change, how can we be so hypocrital by calling Sithsaber close minded if we ourselves completely believe homosexuality and bisexuality are both genetical, knowing there is no scientific proof to prove this.All I'm saying is people should really keep an open mind, if you think homosexuality is genetic or otherwise, that's great but if there is no proof to back it up then it's logical to accept that it may not be so.
"Proof to prove" is all well and good. But, I know myself. It took a few years to figure myself out, but I know very well about myself. I don't know from gay sheep, but I know me. When I was 8 I watched He-Man...thought it was the greatest show ever. Now when I watch it, it seem childish and inane. I grew up. But, when I was 8 I liked boys...now that I'm 26, I still like boys. I used to love Cool Ranch Doritos, now the smell of them makes my stomach turn.
Perhaps you are in tune with yourself enough to know you won't limit your options to simply being gay or simply being straight. I addressed the fact that I've had relationships with women. But I think what must be considered in all of this, is the emotion involved in a relationship between two people. Homosexuality, as you know, isn't all about sex. Being gay involves the emotions behind your interaction with another person. If it was just about sex, then we could believe what Whob and Sithsabre say...that it is giving in to a desire to "sin". That it represents human excess. That it can be compared to beastiality or incest. But it isn't just about sex. And people who denounce it are doing just that, looking only at the physical aspect of it. But being gay is much more complex. It's exactly like being straight. There are emotional attachments to people, care, concern, anger, frustration, fear... It's not all about what makes you cum. And, for me, I've always known what I wanted. I might not have been honest with others, but I've always been honest with myself. I can't address the concept of "finding out" or "figuring out" I was gay. I've known for a very long time. I've never denied it to myself, but I have denied it to others. But that doesn't change what I am.
And, there is a lot of evidence for the genetic cauaslity. It isn't absolute and far from concrete...but it's there. And I'm not sure how there could be physical proof of it being a choice made on any conscious level, since that isn't physical.
As for the guy who went straight and "cleaned up" his act, as society becomes more and more open minded and accepting of the situation, I think you'll see that happen less and less. I'm also dubious of any "evidence" that comes from christian conservative web sites.