Originally posted by long pig
All that and they only managed to weaken Surfer. Yeah, I don't think the Avengers are going to win this.Thanks for the scan, never fully read the book, skimmed it at the store and read a review.
Defenders are all about the ownage.
Avenger brought advance technology just to contain Silver Surfer ( they were scared lol)
In that same Comic SS took out both Vision and Wonder Man easily (like they were nothing)
Hulk did some slamming here and there also
Thor is the only big boy -------- Strange will handle his ass tho.
I just found an older Defenders vs Avengers comic, Avengers#116.
The whole team decides to attack Strange while Strange is in his mansion, Strange(Really pissed...really pissed) uses a spell making the whole team unable to move( Vision, Scarlet Witch, Iron Man, Black Panther, Mantis, Thor, Captain America, Swordsman).
Doc throws them out of the mansion and down his manner with a flick of his wrist.
This was when the Avengers though Strange had Black Knight held hostage, Thor broke down the door with Mjolnir. They were really trying to attack and they got tossed away.
This is just one Defender....
<<SS easily takes Iron whether u like it or not it's not a debate like i said>>
i stopped reading your post after this sentence. it is like you to be argumentative, but it's unlike you to be so deliberately obtuse. everyone else involved in the discussion seems to have acknowledged the fact that the avengers CAN win at least some of these match ups. in part because of the scan below. and you're right about one thing - it is NOT a debate. got a problem with the evidence staring out at you from the computer screen, take it up with marvel. it is CANNON - im HAS beaten ss. funny that is HAS happened, yet you still say it's not even a debate!! ROTFLLMAO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! do you know how idiotic that sounds???! you're saying it is not a debate and that im has no chance - but he HAS beaten him. he HAS beaten him! he HAS beaten him!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! so now what, you'll say ss wasn't trying? he wasn't pissed off enough (because he WAS pissed, and he WAS trying to end it) you'll say it was 'early' ss? not established yet? whatever excuse you choose to come up with is utterly and completely irrelevant because (say it with me) IRONMAN HAS KO'D THE SILVER SURFER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! show your scan again about the 'order' and how he couldn't hurt him with all the avengers. maybe it was IRONMAN who wasn't trying. maybe HE wasn't pissed enough. maybe he really likes ss and was going easy on him. maybe it was the armor - it wasn't fully powered. maybe he didn't feel like absorbing ss's power this time. you're not the only one who can make excuses.
logically i am aware of the fact that ss CAN beat im. my scan shows IRREFUTABLE proof that im is capable of taking ss out as well. jeezus man, you sound like a wolvie fanboy denying facts that are presented right in front of you nose. deny them. say it's (BWHAHAHHAAHAHHAH) not a debate at all (which is obviously correct - it truly is NOT a debate since the proof is irrefutable!!) - i don't care what you say. it has happened and so could again. come down off the surf board and look at things objectively. criminy . . .
and long, that thor v strange fight IS a tough one to figure. honestly, i think if thor gets on the offense quicker than strange, he could keep strange busy trying to defend and perhaps wear strange down, as has happened in the past. but if strange can work up something BEFORE thor goes off, then maybe strange can pull it out. i think it's a very interesting fight and one that could go either way.
the examples both you and kg discussed were examples where strange had TIME to prep something - in his mansion, while the others attacked ss. in a straight up, 1on1, i think (based on loki and strange seeming reasonably close and thor's ability to crush loki) thor might get the advantage more often than not. but i'm not completely certain. i really can't believe this fight hasn't happened in a book - or if it has, it's not in one I'VE read.
Originally posted by leonidas
<<SS easily takes Iron whether u like it or not it's not a debate like i said>>i stopped reading your post after this sentence. it is like you to be argumentative, but it's unlike you to be so deliberately obtuse. everyone else involved in the discussion seems to have acknowledged the fact that the avengers CAN win at least some of these match ups. in part because of the scan below. and you're right about one thing - it is NOT a debate. got a problem with the evidence staring out at you from the computer screen, take it up with marvel. it is CANNON - im HAS beaten ss. funny that is HAS happened, yet you still say it's not even a debate!! ROTFLLMAO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! do you know how idiotic that sounds???! you're saying it is not a debate and that im has no chance - but he HAS beaten him. he HAS beaten him! he HAS beaten him!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! so now what, you'll say ss wasn't trying? he wasn't pissed off enough (because he WAS pissed, and he WAS trying to end it) you'll say it was 'early' ss? not established yet? whatever excuse you choose to come up with is utterly and completely irrelevant because (say it with me) IRONMAN HAS KO'D THE SILVER SURFER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! show your scan again about the 'order' and how he couldn't hurt him with all the avengers. maybe it was IRONMAN who wasn't trying. maybe HE wasn't pissed enough. maybe he really likes ss and was going easy on him. maybe it was the armor - it wasn't fully powered. maybe he didn't feel like absorbing ss's power this time. you're not the only one who can make excuses.
logically i am aware of the fact that ss CAN beat im. my scan shows IRREFUTABLE proof that im is capable of taking ss out as well. jeezus man, you sound like a wolvie fanboy denying facts that are presented right in front of you nose. deny them. say it's (BWHAHAHHAAHAHHAH) not a debate at all (which is obviously correct - it truly is NOT a debate since the proof is irrefutable!!) - i don't care what you say. it has happened and so could again. come down off the surf board and look at things objectively. criminy . . .
SS was holding back ------ even than nearly killing Iron Man
SS was distracted while Iron got behind him , to do what he did
Even than Iron was about to go down because he couldn't handle the energy
If by a chance you mean if SS does the same mistakes and hold back , and ignores iron man ? ya bloodlust? Nope
like I said read Order.
They needed FF, Avengers, Quasar, Captain Marvel , Shield etc
To stop Defenders , and still Defenders were doing ok with all of those teams
times change
distracted him? in MY scan? they were battling the whole time! sss had just shrugged off one of im's best punches and a repulsor ray blast! distracted? what the hell . . .?
your point - ss can win. evidence: order
my point: im can win. evidence: avengers annual #11 + some issue of new warriors where he absorbs terrax's power and ko's him.
your not liking my evidence makes it no less relevant than yours, i'm afraid.
Originally posted by leonidas
distracted him? in MY scan? they were battling the whole time! sss had just shrugged off one of im's best punches and a repulsor ray blast! distracted? what the hell . . .?your point - ss can win. evidence: order
my point: im can win. evidence: avengers annual #11 + some issue of new warriors where he absorbs terrax's power and ko's him.
your not liking my evidence makes it no less relevant than yours, i'm afraid.
My point SS was holding back look at the scans i provided
Iron man admits that SS holding back nearly killed him
you point Iron Man can win if SS holds back , If SS doesn't turn his armor to gas , and SS is not paying attion to the battle.
How does IronMan get SS energy (while SS is acting like a *****?)
Bloodlust won't happen.
You are rite Leo Iron Man can win: If Silver Surfer doesn’t use his powers (like matter manipulation, cosmic blast (leveling cites) , Not using his speed etc even so he would be K.o by energy cuz he can’t handle it.
This is bloodlust Leo
Actually, leo, it's the other way around. Strange had no prep whatsoever, The Avengers(including Thor) did.
Dr. had no clue the Avengers were coming, all he knew was someone was attacking his home and when he saw that Mantis had k.o'd Wong, he flipped out, his eyes went red and he was two words away from killing them, but Wong stopped him. So he flung them across the estate.
Thor was helpless as were the other Avengers.
cool. when did this happen, long? and wouldn't he have had prep WHILE the avengers were pounding at his door? and i find it REALLY hard to believe he could have killed them (especially thor) with a word. i like doc, and he's a bad mofo, but killing thor with a word? i'm not quite prepared to buy that. though, as i said, i DO think strange capable of winning that fight.
Originally posted by leonidas
distracted him? in MY scan? they were battling the whole time! sss had just shrugged off one of im's best punches and a repulsor ray blast! distracted? what the hell . . .?
Before getting SS energy ----- small cosmic blast nearly killed Iron Man
Iron Man best attack had to effect on Silver Surfer
I use kill them not litterally, but he was about to finish a spell that would have sent them to deaths realm I believe.
He was just really pissed that Wong had been attacked for no reason, but I don't see him having any prep because he basically runs to where he heard Wong yell. He was taken totally by suprise.
But, instead of sending them there he just immoblized them and flug them away.
So, if he can immoblize Thor along with the rest with a spell, then he should be able to immoblize Thor just as easy by himself, setting him up for some other attack.
Yeah, it's funny that it hasn't happend before other than this fight.
i can see it MAYBE happeing, but like i said earlier, if thor gets the attack advantage, whips up some mega lightning bolts, doc is gonna be busy - - maybe too busy to really do much to thor offensively. thor can also pretty effectively absorb most magical attacks (not spoken spells, but energy based attacks) damn, i'm still not sure. but i think the winner of THIS fight would decide the winner of the whole thing. namor and hulk are pretty inconsequential, namor can be beaten and hulk can be kept busy. it's doc and ss that would be the deciding factors for the teams. maybe thor WOULD start with ss and im with strange. either way, i think ss and doc would win a match against thor and im more often than not. i'm thinking 7/10 is more likely than 6/10.
good debate.
later
Re: The Defenders vs. The Avengers
Originally posted by Betageuze
[B]Following Defenders:Dr. Strange, Namor-the Sub-Mariner, Silver Surfer, Savage Hulk
versus the
following Avengers:
Thor, Hercules, Wonderman, Iron-Man, Hawkeye, Captain America, Vision
Dr.Strange and Thor are battling it out
Hulk and Hercules are battling it out (hope its classic one)
Silver Surfer: takes out WW, Vision, Captain America, Hawkeye, and Iron-Man Namor-the Sub-Mariner if he needs it
Note he has defeated most of them easily in Order ( one shot knock out) and going bloodlust not much they can do
Hulk wins over Hercules barely, if not SS will attack him
Then Hulk and SS blast Thor ------- who is probably dead anyway.
add Quasar , or CM to avenger than we have a better fight
I would consider Doc in his mansion, excuse me, his Sanctum Sanctorum to be quite thourougly prepped for any attack. He'd got enough wards, spells, and such like defenses woven around that place to keep the hordes of hell from just jumping him while he's on the toilet or whatever. The Avengers may as well have been riding into Little Big Horn wearing cavalry outfits
Hi...glad to join this little party. LP, your Defenders fanboy-ism is stinking up the thread.
Surprisingly, though, I'm going to agree with LP and say Defenders 8/10. I'd favor SS over IM and Strange over Thor, but leo has done a nice job of provided a dissenting opinion (yes, it could happen kg). And if any one of those two fights go the Avengers way so they can help the other, I'd say it goes to the Avengers. But most of the time I see the Defenders winning.
-DM