Originally posted by Slash_KMC
I don't think you get what I'm saying, Dooku and Vader aren't those three Jedi Masters. They can probably defend themselves against an attack like that.
I'm not saying that any one of those individual Jedi are at the same level as Dooku or Vader, what I'm saying is that the ability that domination of all three Jedi Masters likely required goes beyond what we can say for Dooku or Vader. Minimal effort, three of them, all at once, on a lightside nexus. I don't think we've ever seen such a direct dominating display against Force Users anywhere else, period, let alone from simply the likes of Dooku or Vader.
Yes, Golden Age, team of Sidious. In which there were more powerful Jedi. I said they would be able to defeat any Jedi Master except for Yoda or Mace Windu. We don't know how powerful those three Jedi Masters from a less powerful Jedi Order are. Grievous who is less powerful than Dooku made quick work of several Jedi in the CW.
Grievous took out a bunch of fatigued, surprised, fearful Jedi with a lightsaber one after the other, and most of the Jedi he faced weren't even masters with absolutely nothing to their name. Nowhere near as impressive as what Traya performs, not to mention you can't really compare the wwo.
And again, Golden Age of the Jedi, more powerful jedi, you've established neither of these things.
If Ventress could've defended herself against the attack, she would have.
At what point? The beginning of the duel she likely didn't know an attack was coming, and once the attack had already been initiated it would have been much harder to defend against. Not to mention even if she knew the attack was coming and was in the best position to defend against it she likely wouldn't have. Fighting back in her eyes might have simply been futile; not only could she possibly have a heightened sense of how powerful Dooku really is, but it's also likely that even if she could partially defend against the attack and force Dooku to apply more effort he'd still be able to have her at his mercy all the same. End result would be the same, even if it would require more effort on Dooku's part to do it against an opponent that was defending themself. Not to mention, and as she would have liekly imagined, it was just a test/lesson and he wasn't actually trying to kill her or anything. it would suit her position and purpose better to just let Dooku get on with it.
You're trying to make it sound like Dooku had a hard time doing it...
Perhaps he didn't, though it is possible, but either way the point is that it can't be established that Asajj offered any resistance whatsoever and in all likelihood she didn't, meaning, for all intents and purposes, she was a defenceless non force sensitive in this scenario.
We haven't seen something like this before, however you twist or turn it, Dooku owned Ventress with relative ease. "Her face went pale. Dooku lifted that one finger, and this time he tapped it in the air, as if pushing a needle into a pincushion. Ventress crumpled to her knees. Her voice came out clotted with pain. Dooku made another little patting motion, and Ventress slammed to the tile floor. " Where else have you seen something like this?
Perhaps not but I've seen things greater.
"The kind of stuff"? What did she do to make herself an impressive combatant?
I believe Nephthys would like to respond to this, though I'd quickly point out her single handed progression through the Trayus Academy, filled to the brim with agents of the Sith, and her following "stalemate" of Sion and defeat of Traya as something that was extremely impressive.
Speculation! Where is it stated, shown or even kinda mentioned that Exile tried to behead Sion once? From the game we barely see anything. I'm not saying it's not easy to permanently kill Sion, but he hasn't fought against anyone of Sidious & Co's caliber and we do not see it mentioned anything that he was beheaded.
Why would The Exile be convinced that she couldn't kill Sion without exhausting such an immediately obvious avenue? The likelihood is that his ability in some way prevents it.
And The Exile by all available evidence is of the calibre of people far greater than Sidious and Co.
No it's not. Sidious is the strongest Sith Lord ever, but still he couldn't keep himself from dying, does that mean Sion is superior to him. No. Sion doesn't keep himself together through careful use of the Force but because of his intense hatred.
I never said the ability alone necessarily made him superior to somebody that couldn't achieve the ability, but that the ability still speaks volumes about his capabilities that can't be said for the others on Sidious's team. Ignoring the benefit to combat it provides, the unique and unprecedented nature of it implies incredible ability. You see people do great things and it's generally indicative of great capabilities. Forgive me if I fail to be quite as impressed by the small scale TK and lightning we see from the members of Sidious's team.
The most powerful person during his time? Probably.
Do you not view that as being highly impressive? The same statement is the most impressive thing I believe could be said about someone like Sidious (and even then he faces competition for that spot by Yoda). I don't think he's displayed anything that goes beyond the impressiveness of that accolade, an accolade that Revan himself likely shares. I see no problem with saying that the two are likely on the same level, by all available evidence. If anything Revan was even more dominant within his era, the only real competition he faced being that of Malak, the second most powerful individual in the Galaxy it would seem, whilst receiving the external benefits of the Star Forge.
But we don't know how he compares to the PT era Sith. He may have accomplished a tonne of things, but can you provide me some details of his duels?
I believe Nephthys would also like to respond to this, though what kind of details?
Well, if you aren't Neb, than you actually are new to these forums and I'll excuse your complete lack of knowledge on the subject. Your mentality is one that was actively present 5 years ago, before facts and proof became more important. You should read this: Sidious is the most powerful Sith Lord.
Well I'm not going to read all of that... Could you perhaps highlight the only necessary pieces of evidence and points that provide such a proof?
So in a straight up combat situation it’s useless.
Just because the same magnitude of the attack cannot likely be applied on a smaller scale with far more limited time, it doesn't mean it's useless. It still demonstrates incredible ability, that can still be called upon with less time and on a more confined area, even if not to quite the same magnitude.
So you’re just dismissing his feats after the movies? That’s kind of easy isn’t it. His clones are supposed to be much more powerful and it shows. You can’t just choose which EU you decide to accept and which you don’t.
His clones are never stated to be much more powerful than the real thing, and the implication seems to be that this is RotS Sidious. Anyway refer to the Savage Opress thread for my reasoning on why DE Sidious's displays should be disregarded.