According to the official databank:
"In truth, Palpatine was well versed in the ways of the Force, having been apprentice to Darth Plagueis the Wise, a Sith Lord who was a master of arcane and unnatural knowledge. In true Sith tradition, Palpatine murdered his Master upon achieving the skill and ability to do so."
Originally posted by Enyalus
Tisk, tisk. Stick to one story. Either Plagueis wanted a new apprentice and probably created Anakin, or Sidious was just the typical Sith prick who betrayed his master. 😛In other news, its entirely probably that Plagueis was the one who trained Sidious in all seven forms of lightsaber combat. Which would indicate he was pretty good.
And in other news (to EH), Palpatine didn't think Plageuis' ability to manipulate midichlorians was due to Sith alchemy. Rather, it was due to him looking deep inside himself and an immense understanding (read: command) of the Force. He wasn't given the epithet 'the Wise' for nothin', you know. 😉 And by Darth Sidious, the most learned being in the ways of the Force, no less.
EDIT: Big S - it was canceled. I don't think they've put it back on their schedule yet.
Technically, Plagueis was telling Palpatine about the whole 'using Midchlorians to create life" thing. Warning bells went off.
Originally posted by Enyalus
And in other news (to EH), Palpatine didn't think Plageuis' ability to manipulate midichlorians was due to Sith alchemy. Rather, it was due to him looking deep inside himself and an immense understanding (read: command) of the Force. He wasn't given the epithet 'the Wise' for nothin', you know. 😉 And by Darth Sidious, the most learned being in the ways of the Force, no less.
Where did Palpatine say that? Sith Alchemy does involve alterations at the molecular level. imo sith alchemy is the closest known process to which leads me to believe that sith alchemy may have been used in some way in Anakin's creation whether he actually used it or took principle ideas from it.
Regardless of what process he used to create Anakin, the ability will not help Plageuis in combat, I haven't seen anything that suggests he could do prevent people from dieing in an instant which he would need with the upper tier characters going at him. At this point he is an unknown and will remain that way which is why he shouldn't be involved in the discussion.
[quote]
Where did Palpatine say that? Sith Alchemy does involve alterations at the molecular level. imo sith alchemy is the closest known process to which leads me to believe that sith alchemy may have been used in some way in Anakin's creation whether he actually used it or took principle ideas from it.[/quote
What's the current consensus? Was Anakin created by Plageius or by the Force? For a while I was hearing quotes from GL about "only the force" but then my pet theory re-surfaced and I had hope again. Should we take a vote? Did Plageius create Anakin?
But in Rise of Darth Vader (or whatever comes directly after Ep. 3) Palpatine laments that he would never find another apprentice "concieved by the will of the Force". Does this mean that Plageius didn't create him? Also, what if the question doesn't matter? Would it change anything? I'm playing Devil's Advocate, so I'll let the matter drop and cling to my pet theory.
i finally got some real answers on the subject so im dropping it. im new at this yes, but most of the forums ive ever read anywhere is poeple just yealling at each other. i even got sucked into it. but if you give both sides of an argument some credit people will get answers. i think sideous is awesome, dont like him cuz hes cheap, but awesome. just thought becauseplagueis created life and was sideous's master, taught him everything he knows, he was stronger. at this point im still a little iffy on it but at least i have some clarity finally after 6 pages of bs. lol
Sidious is still the most powerful. Kun was one of the greatest duelists.
Try to take into account factors other than single feats. Kun imprisoned himself in Yavin IV's temples. Cool, but hardly an indication of power. Also, military defeats isn't an indication either. Those are a result of extenuating circumstances beyond the control of the Sith Lord's Force-prowess.
It didn't 'take' the entire order to defeat Kun, they realized where he was and converged on his base, and he reasonably decided he couldn't fight them and tried to escape as a spirit but instead imprisoned himself via ritual. Everyone thought he died.
Kun fought personally only once in the Sith War against Vodo. A great feat to be sure, but this isn't something to declare him most powerful ever
Originally posted by Elite Hunter
Regardless of what process he used to create Anakin, the ability will not help Plageuis in combat
Dude. Most cheap tactic ever:
[Scenario: Plagueis confronts Yoda]
*Yoda ignites his lightsaber and uses his uber speed to lunge at Plagueis. Plagueis parries, steps back, and waves his hand. With that gesture, Yoda begins to vomit convulsively - throwing up half of the midichlorians in his body, and thus greatly weakening him. Plagueis goes on to WTFpwn Yoda in a Force contest*
The end. 🙂 LOL, that'd be interesting, wouldn't it?
Originally posted by Lightsnake
It didn't 'take' the entire order to defeat Kun, they realized where he was and converged on his base, and he reasonably decided he couldn't fight them and tried to escape as a spirit but instead imprisoned himself via ritual. Everyone thought he died.
Well, the thousands of Jedi who converged above Yavin 4 used the Wall of Light technique (or if we go by Jedi vs. Sith, Sever Force) and yet he was able to overcome it. Very, very, impressive. Even if he needed to drain the entire Massassi race to do so.
Originally posted by Lightsnake
It didn't 'take' the entire order to defeat Kun, they realized where he was and converged on his base, and he reasonably decided he couldn't fight them and tried to escape as a spirit but instead imprisoned himself via ritual. Everyone thought he died.Kun fought personally only once in the Sith War against Vodo. A great feat to be sure, but this isn't something to declare him most powerful ever
Why on earth is Kun even rated so highly? He froze a few hundred thousand non-sensitives, defeated the Jedi Masters of his age and that makes him the most powerful? Sure he's strong, but he didn't even learn half of what the Ancients had, nor did he develop any of his own techniques...
He'd be in the top 10 though
Originally posted by Deception
Agree hereWhy on earth is Kun even rated so highly? He froze a few hundred thousand non-sensitives, defeated the Jedi Masters of his age and that makes him the most powerful? Sure he's strong, but he didn't even learn half of what the Ancients had, nor did he develop any of his own techniques...
He'd be in the top 10 though
Direct knowledge =/= power. Odan-Ur likely surpasses most everyone for knowledge and nobody calls him the strongest. Luke's technical knowledge is surpassed by a lot, but he's at the top.
Kun's raw power and potential were, put simply, incredible and on what we know, he surpasses the Ancients we've seen in action
Originally posted by Lightsnake
Direct knowledge =/= power. Odan-Ur likely surpasses most everyone for knowledge and nobody calls him the strongest. Luke's technical knowledge is surpassed by a lot, but he's at the top.Kun's raw power and potential were, put simply, incredible and on what we know, he surpasses the Ancients we've seen in action
Yes but knowledge to a degree is power, and the techniques invented by the Ancients that were used substantially by later generations ala Revan, Kun and etc were probably hatched by the greatest of Ancients ala Tulak, Ragnos. Kun wouldn't be on par with these Sith.
However with the Ancients we have seen, such as Ludo and Sadow, then yes Kun is likely to be stronger than them.
Ye but with Luke, he similarly attained knowledge no other Jedi or Sith would've had, and it is likely he wouldn't have a clue about certain powers with the Ancients who disappeared even before Kun's time.