The so called "Most Powerful Sith Lord Ever"

I completely agree. Darth Sidious is a coward. Very much so. That much cannot be disputed. Now, people also use the word "noob" far too much. Darth Frobo, how am I a noob? Because I make legitimate points that you clearly cannot dismiss? It speaks of little capable intellect when one has to resort to insults to try and continue a debate.

Darth Janus is also right. We do not yet know if Revan succeeded or not. As far as we can tell, he did not. But then again, I suppose we'll have to wait till the third KOTOR game. And I agree. Darth Revan was an excellent tactition and a master of the Dark Side.

So, we all agree on Revan's capability and the fact that Sidious is a coward. I don't recall denying either.

Darth Sidious is easily the most effective Sith, as Illustrious has stated, as far as we know. I am sorry, Janus. Dismiss Sidious's tactics all you like, but they worked. As far as we know - Revan's did not. Call it cheating if you will. Sorry, but the Sith follow the dark side. They are, for all intents and purposes, evil. Evil cheats.

Sidious's strategy is that he takes control and advantage of anything and everything that he can. And as for the "greatest Sith" line I used, I am simply going by my own opinion - and Wikipedia's entry on Sidious. It states that he is the greatest Dark Lord of The Sith. I will get you the entire paragraph detailing that, if you wish.

Sidious did take control of the galaxy. Of course he used dishonorable methods. But it got the job done. He may not be as cool as Revan, but then again, to be "cool" is not a measure of effectiveness.

We do know that it is because of Darth Sidious (his manipulation of Anakin) the Jedi Order was extinguished. We do know that because of Sidious, the Sith conquered the galaxy. We also know that he created the greatest Empire in galactic history (according to Star Wars databank).

Hate Sidious all you like. But I've made points that none of you can dismiss. If you do - without resorting to namecalling Frobo - I will apologize and consent.

But deal with it. There is a reason why the entire movie trilogies are based on his manipulations and schemes. There is a reason why he is labeled "ingenious" and "cunning" and "the greatest Sith Lord".

^^ What he said. If you people look at his name, Sidious is insidious meaning, (Loosely, not the actual meaning) cunning and deceitful. Exactly what he is.

Ok to all you, Revan haters out there let me list a few points for you...

1. Revan is NOT the most powerful Sith Lord, however he is considered to rank among some of the greatest Sith Lords ever. Also to all those people who say, Revan is the most powerful...well your wrong and all your doing is giving Revan a bad name for people like that jackass the Anomaly to exploit upon.

2. Revan's betters include: Marka Ragnos, Naga Sadow, Tulak Hord, Ludo Kresh, Ajunta Pall, and possibly Exar Kun.

3. Due to the fact that, Revan has never been scene in any of the Star Wars films morons such as ANOMALY consider him nothing more than EU garbage when compaired to weaklings such as Sidious.

4. Sidious is a ******, lame ass, cowardly, ***!

Oh and Tangible God...get rid of the Hitler avatar. Hitler no matter what his accomplishments is a...****ing son a ****ing ***** that was a blight upon the Earth and did not die slow enough or painfully enough to suit me.

Originally posted by darthrevan89
Ok to all you, Revan haters out there let me list a few points for you...

1. Revan is NOT the most powerful Sith Lord, however he is considered to rank among some of the greatest Sith Lords ever. Also to all those people who say, Revan is the most powerful...well your wrong and all your doing is giving Revan a bad name for people like that jackass the Anomaly to exploit upon.

2. Revan's betters include: Marka Ragnos, Naga Sadow, Tulak Hord, Ludo Kresh, Ajunta Pall, and possibly Exar Kun.

3. Due to the fact that, Revan has never been scene in any of the Star Wars films morons such as ANOMALY consider him nothing more than EU garbage when compaired to weaklings such as Sidious.

4. Sidious is a ******, lame ass, cowardly, ***!

Oh and Tangible God...get rid of the Hitler avatar. Hitler no matter what his accomplishments is a...****ing son a ****ing ***** that was a blight upon the Earth and did not die slow enough or painfully enough to suit me.

Originally posted by darthrevan89
Ok to all you, Revan haters out there let me list a few points for you...

1. Revan is NOT the most powerful Sith Lord, however he is considered to rank among some of the greatest Sith Lords ever. Also to all those people who say, Revan is the most powerful...well your wrong and all your doing is giving Revan a bad name for people like that jackass the Anomaly to exploit upon.

2. Revan's betters include: Marka Ragnos, Naga Sadow, Tulak Hord, Ludo Kresh, Ajunta Pall, and possibly Exar Kun.

3. Due to the fact that, Revan has never been scene in any of the Star Wars films morons such as ANOMALY consider him nothing more than EU garbage when compaired to weaklings such as Sidious.

4. Sidious is a ******, lame ass, cowardly, ***!

Oh and Tangible God...get rid of the Hitler avatar. Hitler no matter what his accomplishments is a...****ing son a ****ing ***** that was a blight upon the Earth and did not die slow enough or painfully enough to suit me.

Well, I'm not a Revan hater. But he was brought up, so...

And yes, Sidious IS a coward. But I can clearly see you just don't like him, so you discredit him. It is painfully clear to see.

Originally posted by Darth Somebody
Well, I'm not a Revan hater. But he was brought up, so...

And yes, Sidious IS a coward. But I can clearly see you just don't like him, so you discredit him. It is painfully clear to see.

Sidious is brilliant all give him that...but I still despise him.

Now, I would like to enjoy some unbiased and capable people to oppose me in the argument. Darth Revan89 has provided me with a very good example of how intelligent arguments can go downhill as soon as one of the participants shows extreme bias and refuses to accept information - even if it goes against his own opinion.

Yes, I will agree. Sidious is my personal favorite Sith Lord. But that is just because I admire his solitary level of intellect and that the fact that the Star Wars movies were entirely based on his schemes and so forth. I did at one time rank Darth Revan up on my favorites list. But that was before I've seen so many people boast about him without mentioning the slightest fault. As much as I like Sidious, I will openly admit his faults and prove that he was not invincible, infallible, or perfect. He wasn't. He was very flawed, hence his eventual defeat.

Now, having said that, I am able to present a relatively good argument. I do not see anyone providing proof how Sidious could not be considered great or THE greatest for accomplishing what no other Sith did. I also see no one admitting that Sidious's methods worked better than that of those previous.

Some of you may not like Michael Jordan, for example. Certainly he isn't the tallest basketball player, or the biggest. But he is the greatest and most famous for his record.

Just because you don't LIKE someone (like me with Darth Revan) does not mean you should deny that which they have accomplished. It makes you immature and unworthy of a professional debate.

I apologize, Darth Revan89. I've seen your post just now. Just try to be a bit more...impartial during discussions of greatness when comparing Sith Lords. You will find that most of the time, the crowd favorite isn't always the GREATEST.

I'm not a Revan hater by any stretch of the word. I am a skeptic that fully stands by that Revan is by no stretch of the word the greatest or the most powerful of the Sith Lords. The greatest goes to Ragnos or Sidious, rather easily; the most powerful is open to interpretation.

I do, however, believe that simply because he slaughted baddies in a video game does not prove he's greater than the next guy. Even Kyle Katarn and Jaden Korr did their fair share of slicing up lightsaber wielders, does this mean they should be mentioned as an elite?

Revan is a far above average, extremely proficient duelist, with an extended knowledge of the force. He is without much question, one of the top tactical minds of the SW universe; put that together, and he is a very formidable opponent.

But, people are far too easily swayed by the jack of all trades, slice them and dice them "cool" character that is Revan in the video games. The same individuals within the KotOR games that say Revan is great also make snide remarks that he doesn't stack up to the ancient Sith lords. Take what you will out of that.

Revan's a upper tier jedi/sith, and a very formidable individual, but he is by no stretch of the word, the most powerful, or the greatest, of Jedi OR Sith as we know it.

Originally posted by Darth Somebody
Now, I would like to enjoy some unbiased and capable people to oppose me in the argument. Darth Revan89 has provided me with a very good example of how intelligent arguments can go downhill as soon as one of the participants shows extreme bias and refuses to accept information - even if it goes against his own opinion.

Yes, I will agree. Sidious is my personal favorite Sith Lord. But that is just because I admire his solitary level of intellect and that the fact that the Star Wars movies were entirely based on his schemes and so forth. I did at one time rank Darth Revan up on my favorites list. But that was before I've seen so many people boast about him without mentioning the slightest fault. As much as I like Sidious, I will openly admit his faults and prove that he was not invincible, infallible, or perfect. He wasn't. He was very flawed, hence his eventual defeat.

Now, having said that, I am able to present a relatively good argument. I do not see anyone providing proof how Sidious could not be considered great or THE greatest for accomplishing what no other Sith did. I also see no one admitting that Sidious's methods worked better than that of those previous.

Some of you may not like Michael Jordan, for example. Certainly he isn't the tallest basketball player, or the biggest. But he is the greatest and most famous for his record.

Just because you don't LIKE someone (like me with Darth Revan) does not mean you should deny that which they have accomplished. It makes you immature and unworthy of a professional debate.

Let me put it this way...

Sidious is brilliant, powerful, cunning and overall very intelligent. I am not denying that he is any of these I simply made this thread because I was sick of reading all these posts on how Sidous is the most powerful, and greatest Sith Lord ever.

Yes I know I am bias against, Sidious, but I am not denying the facts of what he was.

Precisely, Illustrious. Some would assume because he triumphed in the video games means something. That he battled so many warriors and lived. Well, consider. I'm positive everyone has died at least once while playing KOTOR. In the Star Wars universe, when one dies, there is no Loading Screen that reverts you to your previous saved portion of the game.

And look. In the movies and books, one slash across the chest with a lightsaber is enough to kill just about anyone. Notice how in the video games, this is not the case. Just mere health is dropped.

Take this into consideration, my friends.

Darth Revan89, there is no true way to measure absolute power of a Sith Lord. The versus forums are based on crowd speculation, unless you have actually seen or read about the two combatants actually fighting with one another in times previous.

I say Sidious is the "greatest", because he took over the galaxy. That is, according to Star Wars databank, the ultimate goal of the Sith Order. No one else, as of yet, has ever accomplished it. Not Ragnos. Not even Revan. Of course some argue this was not Revan's goal. Perhaps.

Sidious may not be the most powerful. But greatest is certainly not a true measure of power, not in my eyes. A crippled person can be GREAT. It doesn't mean that they are physically or mentally powerful.

Illustrious and Darth Somebody, I love you guys. I mean that in the platonic sense, I'm straight. I have received numerous insults thrown my way over the exact same argument as well if Revan was actually Sith learned, particularly from Darth Janus and Human Vader, and am glad to find some people in here with some social manners that protrude past the rednecks.

It's not that they are particularly un-intelligent. Quite the opposite. But like Sidious said to Yoda, "Your arrogance blinds you." And indeed it did.

Well at least we all agree.... Sidious was brilliant but a coward, the rest were far more fun but failed...

Originally posted by Fishy
Well at least we all agree.... Sidious was brilliant but a coward, the rest were far more fun but failed...

I must know something why do so many of you underestimate Darth Sidious's power I mean GL even stated Luke will never be as strong as Sidious which means he could beat NJO Luke. But before you start he is a coward

Originally posted by Fishy
Well at least we all agree.... Sidious was brilliant but a coward, the rest were far more fun but failed...

That's a fair statement.

This thread was a big waste of text, really.

Originally posted by DarthGenises
I must know something why do so many of you underestimate Darth Sidious's power I mean GL even stated Luke will never be as strong as Sidious which means he could beat NJO Luke. But before you start he is a coward

You are simply wrong here. Lucas said that Anakin would be 200 % Sidious and Luke also surpassed Sidious in terms of power. In the Dark Empire comics you have Luke (with a little help of Leia) defeating Sidious (who has a chrystal that gave him more force powers). NJO Luke would waste the "movie" Sidious in the blink of an eye. No doubt about that.

About Sidious and power. Well...in my personal theory the Sith did lost power from the times of Ragnos to (at least) the Battle of Russan just because they:

a) Did not have people anymore that were trained with Dark Side powers / Sith Magic and so on from infancy.
b) Because they killed their master once they were powerful enough they would have much knowledge or "wisdom" lost.

The last "real" Sith Lord was Naga Sadow. The people that followed were more or less Dark Jedi that didn't have connections to the "real" Sith. So powerwise that would mean:

Marka Ragnos > Naga Sadow > Tulak Hord / Freedon Nadd > Exar Kun > Revan > . . . . . . . . > Sidious

The last Dark Lord that got this title (and it's a nominal title since that people didn't rule over the real Sith Empire) and "earned" it in the eyes of the ancient Sith was Exar Kun (as Ragnos himself declared him the Dark Lord) but all people that followed just "took" the title for theirselves...

That includes Revan and all Sith (Sidious also) that followed Exar Kun. For sheer powers I'm quite undecided for the Sith that followed after the Battle of Ruusan. From the EU Darth Bane (who started the "New Sith"😉 had learned from Freedon Nadds holocron and thereby he could have known as much of the Dark Side as Exar Kun (who learned from Freedon Nadds spirit). And if the things that Sidious in ROTS told Anakin about Darth Plagueis are true (very questionable) we might say that the Sith of that era are realy powerful.

Still that doesn't count for Sidious himself since he had to murder his master while he was sleeping. So he is probably much weaker than Plagueis although he appears to be very powerful in the Dark Empire comics (when he had his crystal).

In terms of "greatness" he is surely one of the greatests Sith. When it comes to political actions, diplomacy or manipulation he might be the greatest Sith ever. And after archieving his goal (rule over the Galaxy) he just let other people do the work (Vader, Tarkin, Thrawn) but he was not unquestioned or "absolute" in his reign like Ragnos was.

ROTS Anakin thought he could defeat Sidious. Later Vader (in ESB) thought he and Luke would be able to destroy him together and once Grand Admiral Zaarin started a major Rebellion against the Emperor (this was crushed by Thrawn).

When comparing Sidious to other Sith Lords we should always keep in mind that Sidious had control over the Republic (and thereby over most planets in the known galaxy) where other people (Sadow, Kun, Revan) had to fight AGAINST the Republic. So in terms of sheer power, tactical genious or fighting skills I personaly rate most other Sith Lords far higher than Sidious.