Originally posted by darthgoober
Since it's you... probably He-Man. Go ahead, I got your back 😉 .
Heh. Sounds good. Probably tomorrow. It's too late to think through all of these battles.
I was thinking about Doctor Who originally, but prep would be required. He's street level sans prep, but probably HH+ with it. Would make for interesting debate.
Pr I found your older Superman list as I went through the thread. You've upgraded it a bit...
Namor - Yes...
Spiderman - Yes...
Venom - Yes...
Carnage - Yes...
Taskmaster - Yes...
Elecktra - Yes...
Daredevil - Yes...
Dock Ock - Yes...
Sandman - Yes...
Hydroman - Yes...
Omega Red - Yes...
Sabretooth - Yes...
Mr. x - Who?
Cyclops - Yes...
Xavier - Yes...
Magneto - Yes...
Nightcrawleer - Yes...
Ryu - Yes...
Ken - Yes...
Bison - Yes...
Akuma - Yes...
Iron Man - Yes...
Hulk - Yes...
Shang Chi - Yes...
Karate Kid - Yes...
Apocalypse - not sure, but my gut says Yes...
Storm - Yes...
Shadowcat - Yes...
Green Goblin - Yes...
Hobgoblin - Yes...
Godzilla - Yes...
Silver Surfer - No...
Firelord - Don't know nearly enough about Firelord to judge...
Human Torch - Yes...
Dr. Doom - Yes...
Thing - Yes...
Tyrant - Who?
Zarathos - Again, who?
Dormammu - No...
Dr. Strange - No...
Deathstroke - Yes...
Batman - Yes...
Gambit - Yes...
Deadpool - Yes...
Superman - lol, possibly...
Wonder Woman - Yes...
Green Arrow - Yes...
Hawkeye - Yes...
Wasp - Yes...
Thor - more often than not, i'd say Yes... but not by much...
Odin - No...
TOAA - No...
Living Tribunal - No...
Galactus - No...
Krypto - Probably...
Supergirl - Yes...
Tombstone - Yes...
Morlun - Don't know enough, but if he's a spidey baddy, sure, why not...
Kraven - Yes...
Invisible Woman - Yes...
Magneto - for the second time, Yes...
Quicksiver - Yes...
Scarlet Witch - if he's fast enough, Yes...
Havok - Yes...
Jean Grey - Yes, unless she's all phoenixy...
Phoenix - No...
Mickey Mouse - No...
Cable - Yes...
She Hulk - Yes...
Originally posted by Tha C-Master
So Pr, you think he can blitz him before his shields are up, doesn't he have auto shields though? So you don't feel Wonder Woman can get a majority considering magic isn't her weakness?
that's why i didn't say a majority. i said "could" win, not necessarily "would" win lol...
Originally posted by Tha C-Master
Pr I found your older Superman list as I went through the thread. You've upgraded it a bit...Namor - Yes...
Spiderman - Yes...
Venom - Yes...
Carnage - Yes...
Taskmaster - Yes...
Elecktra - Yes...
Daredevil - Yes...
Dock Ock - Yes...
Sandman - Yes...
Hydroman - Yes...
Omega Red - Yes...
Sabretooth - Yes...
Mr. x - Who?
Cyclops - Yes...
Xavier - Yes...
Magneto - Yes...
Nightcrawleer - Yes...
Ryu - Yes...
Ken - Yes...
Bison - Yes...
Akuma - Yes...
Iron Man - Yes...
Hulk - Yes...
Shang Chi - Yes...
Karate Kid - Yes...
Apocalypse - not sure, but my gut says Yes...
Storm - Yes...
Shadowcat - Yes...
Green Goblin - Yes...
Hobgoblin - Yes...
Godzilla - Yes...
Silver Surfer - No...
Firelord - Don't know nearly enough about Firelord to judge...
Human Torch - Yes...
Dr. Doom - Yes...
Thing - Yes...
Tyrant - Who?
Zarathos - Again, who?
Dormammu - No...
Dr. Strange - No...
Deathstroke - Yes...
Batman - Yes...
Gambit - Yes...
Deadpool - Yes...
Superman - lol, possibly...
Wonder Woman - Yes...
Green Arrow - Yes...
Hawkeye - Yes...
Wasp - Yes...
Thor - more often than not, i'd say Yes... but not by much...
Odin - No...
TOAA - No...
Living Tribunal - No...
Galactus - No...
Krypto - Probably...
Supergirl - Yes...
Tombstone - Yes...
Morlun - Don't know enough, but if he's a spidey baddy, sure, why not...
Kraven - Yes...
Invisible Woman - Yes...
Magneto - for the second time, Yes...
Quicksiver - Yes...
Scarlet Witch - if he's fast enough, Yes...
Havok - Yes...
Jean Grey - Yes, unless she's all phoenixy...
Phoenix - No...
Mickey Mouse - No...
Cable - Yes...
She Hulk - Yes...
😂 i'd forgotten i did that.
Originally posted by Placidity
DS can't beat Hulk?
Sorry, let me clarify. I was objecting to the "easily" part.
The OS's and OE's effectiveness seem subject to extreme durability. While Hulk's tearing durability is certainly not on par with Superman's, he has shown to be on par in the category of energy and temperature resistance. And blunt force is about the least effective way of fighting Hulk. Barring KO for the win, he heals too fast for any character to possibly beat him to death. So if Darkseid was forced into fisticuffs with Hulk, it would a very brutal, nasty, blood fest. Who wins? Dunno. But neither wins "easily".
Originally posted by Tha C-Master
So you are saying that Magneto is of insufficient capabilities to do so, especially mid to late battle?Well I was thinking Iceman could take care of him right at the start, I do agree with you on the "amp time" though.
I'm comparing Magneto's draining ability to Silver Surfer's. When Hulk and Banner were split, and Surfer didn't know, Surfer began to drain the gamma energy out of Hulk, which would've killed Hulk. Hulk tanked his way through it and clocked Surfer before hauling ass. If Surfer couldn't drain Hulk's gamma, even while thinking it would've been harmless and therefore had no reason to delay it, how could Magneto accomplish such a feat?
If I were to pick Magneto to win, I'd base it on his other abilities. Too many other people have tried to drain Hulk's gamma and failed, and Magneto's not even proficient in that respect. However, Magneto has soloed the X-Men before if I'm not mistaken, so I wouldn't dare say Hulk pwns him. Just takes the majority. I imagine the fight involving Magneto tossing Hulk around a lot, and using the environment for all it's worth, but ultimately how could he really damage Hulk that would put Hulk down? Eventually, Hulk thunderclaps or Hulk-jumps up to Magneto to deal with him.
As for Iceman. Since Iceman's powers are theoretically on a global scale, he could likely make a Mount Rushmore sized ice rock and squish Hulk. Beyond that, I can't see how being frozen or hit by blunt force could stop Hulk for long. Hulk's been deep frozen before and busted right out. It's kind of like Human Torch. In WWHulk, Hulk takes the combined might of Human Torch's best shot and Storm's best shot, and he(somehow) KO'd them both. Since WWHulk's durability didn't seem too amped from the norm, I figure Savage Hulk is around that range as well. When against Hulk, Iceman, in my opinion, is best as a team weapon. Eg, freezing Hulk's eyes to stop him while Colossus goes for an uppercut or Gambit throws a charged football at him. You know, like play-making.
EDIT: I already know, Surfer WOULD have drained the gamma EVENTUALLY. My point was he couldn't do it in time, thus illustrating the true difficulty in such a task.
Originally posted by Master CourtBut you don't think that DS would lose any out of 10 do you?
Sorry, let me clarify. I was objecting to the "easily" part.The OS's and OE's effectiveness seem subject to extreme durability. While Hulk's tearing durability is certainly not on par with Superman's, he has shown to be on par in the category of energy and temperature resistance. And blunt force is about the least effective way of fighting Hulk. Barring KO for the win, he heals too fast for any character to possibly beat him to death. So if Darkseid was forced into fisticuffs with Hulk, it would a very brutal, nasty, blood fest. Who wins? Dunno. But neither wins "easily".
I'm comparing Magneto's draining ability to Silver Surfer's. When Hulk and Banner were split, and Surfer didn't know, Surfer began to drain the gamma energy out of Hulk, which would've killed Hulk. Hulk tanked his way through it and clocked Surfer before hauling ass. If Surfer couldn't drain Hulk's gamma, even while thinking it would've been harmless and therefore had no reason to delay it, how could Magneto accomplish such a feat?
If I were to pick Magneto to win, I'd base it on his other abilities. Too many other people have tried to drain Hulk's gamma and failed, and Magneto's not even proficient in that respect. However, Magneto has soloed the X-Men before if I'm not mistaken, so I wouldn't dare say Hulk pwns him. Just takes the majority. I imagine the fight involving Magneto tossing Hulk around a lot, and using the environment for all it's worth, but ultimately how could he really damage Hulk that would put Hulk down? Eventually, Hulk thunderclaps or Hulk-jumps up to Magneto to deal with him.
As for Iceman. Since Iceman's powers are theoretically on a global scale, he could likely make a Mount Rushmore sized ice rock and squish Hulk. Beyond that, I can't see how being frozen or hit by blunt force could stop Hulk for long. Hulk's been deep frozen before and busted right out. It's kind of like Human Torch. In WWHulk, Hulk takes the combined might of Human Torch's best shot and Storm's best shot, and he(somehow) KO'd them both. Since WWHulk's durability didn't seem too amped from the norm, I figure Savage Hulk is around that range as well. When against Hulk, Iceman, in my opinion, is best as a team weapon. Eg, freezing Hulk's eyes to stop him while Colossus goes for an uppercut or Gambit throws a charged football at him. You know, like play-making.
EDIT: I already know, Surfer WOULD have drained the gamma EVENTUALLY. My point was he couldn't do it in time, thus illustrating the true difficulty in such a task.
Well I don't think Iceman would have to freeze him, I just meant stopping his molecular movement inside of his body. I was thinking that could possibly do the trick.
I guess it depends on how Mags is written, if he is written to be quite good I think he stands a solid chance against the Hulk.
Originally posted by Tha C-Master
[B]But you don't think that DS would lose any out of 10 do you?
Well, if OE and OS don't work against Hulk, which is a good possibility considering his energy resistance and HF, I certainly wouldn't say Hulk loses 10/10. But that's why I said "dunno". Characters have tanked through OE and OS before, and some even go on to beat Darkseid. I see no reason Hulk couldn't do it at least once. I consider Darkseid to be akin to Apocalypse, in that they are both ancient and have Superman-level power. I'm just saying, it's at least possible for Hulk to tank through OE and thunderclap Darkseid's head. Considering Darkseid rarely gets into brawls and relies on his wits mostly, and considering not many people can resist the OE, Hulk could very well take him off guard in this way. That's why I say at least once. The second time around, Darkseid would know a lot more about Hulk.
But my main point is, without the OE and OS, Darkseid is forced into a brawl with Hulk. Hulk as a standard showing is a physical match for Thor, and it's been established that Thor is at least equal to Superman, and of course Superman has defeated Darkseid before. ABC logic aside, I'd never say anything would be "easy" in a fight between Darkseid and Hulk.
Well I don't think Iceman would have to freeze him, I just meant stopping his molecular movement inside of his body. I was thinking that could possibly do the trick.
Actually, that would definitely drop Hulk to his knees, frozen guts and all. But what're the long run possibilities?
I guess it depends on how Mags is written, if he is written to be quite good I think he stands a solid chance against the Hulk.
Agreed. Magneto's best showings easily put him at Hulk-buster level. Strategy coupled with the abilities Magneto is proficient in, he wouldn't have to rely on gamma-draining to hang with or even defeat Hulk.
Originally posted by Master CourtI just don't see what Hulk can do to Iceman to permenantly get rid of him at Omega level, Hulk is physical and Iceman isn't, which is why at best I'd say it'd be a stalemate for Hulk. Hulk's molecular stability wouldn't change as he gets angrier in my opinion.
Well, if OE and OS don't work against Hulk, which is a good possibility considering his energy resistance and HF, I certainly wouldn't say Hulk loses 10/10. But that's why I said "dunno". Characters have tanked through OE and OS before, and some even go on to beat Darkseid. I see no reason Hulk couldn't do it at least once. I consider Darkseid to be akin to Apocalypse, in that they are both ancient and have Superman-level power. I'm just saying, it's at least possible for Hulk to tank through OE and thunderclap Darkseid's head. Considering Darkseid rarely gets into brawls and relies on his wits mostly, and considering not many people can resist the OE, Hulk could very well take him off guard in this way. That's why I say at least once. The second time around, Darkseid would know a lot more about Hulk.But my main point is, without the OE and OS, Darkseid is forced into a brawl with Hulk. Hulk as a standard showing is a physical match for Thor, and it's been established that Thor is at least equal to Superman, and of course Superman has defeated Darkseid before. ABC logic aside, I'd never say anything would be "easy" in a fight between Darkseid and Hulk.
Actually, that would definitely drop Hulk to his knees, frozen guts and all. But what're the long run possibilities?
Agreed. Magneto's best showings easily put him at Hulk-buster level. Strategy coupled with the abilities Magneto is proficient in, he wouldn't have to rely on gamma-draining to hang with or even defeat Hulk.
Darkseid is so powerful physically, do you think a clap from Hulk would put down a decently written Darkseid?
Originally posted by Tha C-Master
[B]I just don't see what Hulk can do to Iceman to permenantly get rid of him at Omega level, Hulk is physical and Iceman isn't, which is why at best I'd say it'd be a stalemate for Hulk. Hulk's molecular stability wouldn't change as he gets angrier in my opinion.
I mostly agree on the stalemate between Hulk and Iceman. Mainly because they really can't hurt each other. At least not in any way that couldn't be recovered from. But if Iceman were at any time solid, Hulk could at least KO him. Even if Iceman regenerates, he's still out cold.
Darkseid is so powerful physically, do you think a clap from Hulk would put down a decently written Darkseid?
No. Hulk most certainly could not one-shot Darkseid any more than he can one-shot Thor, Superman, or Surfer. But it'd break the OE attack and get the real fight underway. I'm thinking similar to when Gladiator was roasting Hulk with his heat-vision. Seeing as how Darkseid is an ancient warlord, he's probably full of strategy and skill. Whereas Hulk would eventually trump him in strength and HF. They're probably similar in durability. Beyond that, I'd say it's really scenario based if Hulk or Darkseid win, eg on Apokolips, or any average Earth desert. As for how each scenario affects the odds, I couldn't say. I'm not entirely well versed in Darkseid lore. But I'd happily welcome feats to get a better idea of how it'd go.
Originally posted by Master CourtWhat?
I mostly agree on the stalemate between Hulk and Iceman. Mainly because they really can't hurt each other. At least not in any way that couldn't be recovered from. But if Iceman were at any time solid, Hulk could at least KO him. Even if Iceman regenerates, he's still out cold.
Originally posted by Master Court
I mostly agree on the stalemate between Hulk and Iceman. Mainly because they really can't hurt each other. At least not in any way that couldn't be recovered from. But if Iceman were at any time solid, Hulk could at least KO him. Even if Iceman regenerates, he's still out cold.
Just to further clarify, if Iceman was solid ice, Hulk could at least shatter him. Never KO, as he would feel no real pain or suffer from brain damage. He was vaporised by sentinels - who by their own admission could not even detect him anymore - and came back fighting against them in mist form. He got his body blown (his head was intact) and was still conscious. He reformed by stealing the water from some demon girl. He was teleported into a wall, blew up, and reformed. He was absorbed by a guy who well...absorbs people/things for his heat energy, and killed him from the inside out.
The only time he has ever been KO'd since he started using his powers more effectively was when he was blown up in human form, and miraculously turned into midst that then turned into solid ice and the effort drained him significantly. So, unless Hulk can get him in human form, theres no way he can be physically defeated, which is the only option the Hulk has.
*Note, this is not me saying Iceman will defeat Hulk. Just a clarification on the matter.
Originally posted by Blair Wind
Just to further clarify, if Iceman was solid ice, Hulk could at least shatter him. Never KO, as he would feel no real pain or suffer from brain damage. He was vaporised by sentinels - who by their own admission could not even detect him anymore - and came back fighting against them in mist form. He got his body blown (his head was intact) and was still conscious. He reformed by stealing the water from some demon girl. He was teleported into a wall, blew up, and reformed. He was absorbed by a guy who well...absorbs people/things for his heat energy, and killed him from the inside out.The only time he has ever been KO'd since he started using his powers more effectively was when he was blown up in human form, and miraculously turned into midst that then turned into solid ice and the effort drained him significantly. So, unless Hulk can get him in human form, theres no way he can be physically defeated, which is the only option the Hulk has.
*Note, this is not me saying Iceman will defeat Hulk. Just a clarification on the matter.
Well put. And with feats nonetheless.
So, I guess it's been settled. Extended stalemate until they both give up, become friends, and hit every joint in town.
Originally posted by Master CourtI believe Hulk is weaker at Base Levels. Darkseid has taken Superman's full brunt of assaults before (like in the Batman/Superman: Supergirl issue) and remained pretty much fine. He is quite a tank. I just find him able to knock out Hulk at core levels. I'm looking for a good scan. A bit old:
I mostly agree on the stalemate between Hulk and Iceman. Mainly because they really can't hurt each other. At least not in any way that couldn't be recovered from. But if Iceman were at any time solid, Hulk could at least KO him. Even if Iceman regenerates, he's still out cold.No. Hulk most certainly could not one-shot Darkseid any more than he can one-shot Thor, Superman, or Surfer. But it'd break the OE attack and get the real fight underway. I'm thinking similar to when Gladiator was roasting Hulk with his heat-vision. Seeing as how Darkseid is an ancient warlord, he's probably full of strategy and skill. Whereas Hulk would eventually trump him in strength and HF. They're probably similar in durability. Beyond that, I'd say it's really scenario based if Hulk or Darkseid win, eg on Apokolips, or any average Earth desert. As for how each scenario affects the odds, I couldn't say. I'm not entirely well versed in Darkseid lore. But I'd happily welcome feats to get a better idea of how it'd go.
