Originally posted by King KAM
Your a known thanos hater, and an even more known IDIOT, anything you say can be discredited considering you agreed with a man who said that Silver Surfer was more powerful than galactus.
I'm a known Thanos hater? That's news to me. Prior to today, I don't think I've ever argued AGAINST Thanos. And I have a very specific reason for doing so that anybody who knows anything about me (meaning not you) already knows.
And when have I EVER said that Surfer is more powerful than Galactus?????? Even as Keeper, he could barely defeat a weakened Galactus. WTF are you talking about?
I think you should just sit this one out and let the adults talk, sonny.
Originally posted by demigawd
Not if the characters have never used any FTL attacks, or even lightspeed attacks. If they don't use it, then you can't say he can react to it.Batman has dodged heat vision before. He's punched Superman before, who has lightspeed reactions. Can we conclude, then, that Batman has lightspeed reactions? Of course not. The only thing we can conclude is that Superman CHOSE not to make use of his speed.
Ditto with Surfer. When we see Surfer dodging left and right and showing fists and blasts flying from all directions against Thanos and Thanos doing a highspeed punch at precisely where Surfer is, THEN we can conclude that he can deal with FTL attacks. Otherwise, the only conclusion we can accurately make is that those characters didn't attack Thanos at highspeed, for whatever strategic reasons.
But then there's also Captain Marvel, who speedblitzed Thanos and Thanos was unable to react. Hell, even Spider-Man dodged Thanos! SPIDER-MAN.
Whenever speed has been used against Thanos (and there aren't many times), Thanos has been found wanting.
It doesn't have to be PIS. It's just as easily CIS, or strategic decisions that backfire, or simple pride. Surfer is a pacifist, he's not a warrior. And he's shown lesser inclination to use his speed than Superman, who IS a warrior and HAS shown speed feat almost every issue.
the batman example is a bad one -- if supes used ftl speed against bats he would kill him instantly. he'd NEVER use it. ss has has such worries against thanos.
the cm attack and spidey attack happened before his upgrade, no? even the ig stuff could be explained away (if poorly) as saying thanos wasn't really going all out cuz he wanted a 'challenge'.
the problem i have with what you're saying is that it can be extended beyond all reason. so odin is incapable of dealing with ftl attacks? no one has been shown to use them on him. galactus too? inbetweener? phoenix? eternity? wielder of the hotu? just because it HASN'T happened, doens't make it true.
to use one of your own -- i've never seen thanos bake a pie either, so that means he can't?
we can deduce from who he is and his power level as well as what he's done that ftl atacks can be dealt with by thanos. again, to say they can't calls into question too many feats, and i'll not attribute pis/cis to all of them. i agree with you that there HAVE been some inconsistencies, but his consistent feats outweigh them.
Originally posted by leonidas
no, thanos tried eyeblasting him and couldn't even come close. runner was literally toying with thanos. again, he had the gem so that may be a special case.
You're right. I just checked it. He does try to eye blast him.
But thanos is REACTING to runner while he's showing off his speed with the gem. He should not even be able to SEE him, unless he has sensory perception faster than light.
And you need to distinguish two things: 1. missing; and 2. being incapable of hitting. Scorpion and every one of spiderman's enemies misses him frequently. That does not mean they cannot hit him, or that they are in a qualitatively different speed league. That just means spiderman has a speed advantage. (and EVERYONE has a speed disadvantage to a space gem wielder)
PS I can't see the marvell example, but IIRC he wasn't speed blitzed as much as he was surprised. I may get hit in the back of the head without reacting to it. That doesn't mean I don't have the speed/reactions to avoid it; it just means I was surprised.
There has never been a fight, afaik, where thanos has trouble detecting someone moving at high speeds. The closest is the runner fight, but thanos clearly perceives runner while he's moving, which is a feat in itself.
Originally posted by demigawdYou agreed with Leonheart on the Franklin Richards versus galactus thread, where HE stated Surfer was even more powerful than galactus
I'm a known Thanos hater? That's news to me. Prior to today, I don't think I've ever argued AGAINST Thanos. And I have a very specific reason for doing so that anybody who knows anything about me (meaning not you) already knows.And when have I EVER said that Surfer is more powerful than Galactus?????? Even as Keeper, he could barely defeat a weakened Galactus. WTF are you talking about?
I think you should just sit this one out and let the adults talk, sonny.
How bout you sit this one out, Daughter🙂
Originally posted by slade10
There has never been a fight, afaik, where thanos has trouble detecting someone moving at high speeds. The closest is the runner fight, but thanos clearly perceives runner while he's moving, which is a feat in itself.
Even if he could see Runner (Runner was playing around btw), it doesn't mean he's fast enough to do anything about. He was shown not be able to keep up with Cap, Mar-Vell, and Spiderman, Thanos has no Superspeed.
Originally posted by leonidas
the batman example is a bad one -- if supes used ftl speed against bats he would kill him instantly. he'd NEVER use it. ss has has such worries against thanos.
But that's my point - Superman CHOSE not to use FTL against Batman. Likewise, Surfer CHOSE not to use FTL attacks against Thanos? Why? Perhaps because it's taxing? Because it's imprecise? Because it's more difficult for Surfer to do? Because he's a dirty commie?
In truth, Surfer has very limited combat feats at FTL. It just doesn't seem to come as naturally to him as it does to Superman.
In battle situations, Surfer uses his speed as an advantage maybe 3/10 times. Superman does it 7/10 times.
That's a marked difference. Wouldn't you agree?
the cm attack and spidey attack happened before his upgrade, no?
Where was it stated that Thanos' speed increased? We've SEEN increases in strength, durability, and energy projection. We've seen nothing in the speed department.
even the ig stuff could be explained away (if poorly) as saying thanos wasn't really going all out cuz he wanted a 'challenge'.
But here's the problem. If a character is known for strength, and has hundreds of strength feats, then when calculating averages, you have license to dismiss both unusually high showings and unusually low showings. You don't have license to dismiss low speed showings when there are only a handful in the first place. Every one of them has to count, otherwise you have nothing to go on.
And of the limited speed situations Thanos was in, in every one of them, he's shown an inability to deal with it.
the problem i have with what you're saying is that it can be extended beyond all reason. so odin is incapable of dealing with ftl attacks? no one has been shown to use them on him. galactus too? inbetweener? phoenix? eternity? wielder of the hotu? just because it HASN'T happened, doens't make it true.
But logically speaking, in order to assume the presence of something, you have to show evidence of its presence. You can't just give a character the benefit of the doubt because you're impressed.
Let's take Odin as an example. Does Odin have an inability to deal with FTL? By default...YES. But his power level is so high that he would be unaffected by ANYBODY known for their speed long enough to simply destroy them any number of ways that just negate their speed.
Additionally, it's well known that his powers are magical in nature, and it gives him the ability to alter his form or use his powers in ways that are without limit.
None of that applies to Thanos.
G was a bad example - Surfer has actually gotten his licks on Galactus by outmaneuvering him. G's durability was just so insanely high that it didn't matter. Again, against Thanos, that doesn't apply. Superman (wait, this isn't even the Superman thread)...Gladiator is close enough in raw strength to Thanos that it doesn't apply.
to use one of your own -- i've never seen thanos bake a pie either, so that means he can't?
Very clever, but it backfires. Baking a pie simply requires basic movement and motor abilities and a basic level of intelligence that we know Thanos has. Superspeed is a very specific ability.
Are we going to start assuming that Thanos has the ability to time travel because he's never shown the ability to not time travel? How about the ability to create life? It opens up a huge can of worms if we start granting powers to people.
we can deduce from who he is and his power level as well as what he's done that ftl atacks can be dealt with by thanos. again, to say they can't calls into question too many feats, and i'll not attribute pis/cis to all of them. i agree with you that there HAVE been some inconsistencies, but his consistent feats outweigh them.
Except for one glaring problem....he HAS no feats showing the ability to deal with FTL attacks. None. 100% of his encounters with FTL attacks have shown that he needs other methods to deal with them.
You simply can't ignore that kind of ignoble record.
Originally posted by King KAM
You agreed with Leonheart on the Franklin Richards versus galactus thread, where HE stated Surfer was even more powerful than galactusHow bout you sit this one out, Daughter🙂
i NEVER said that surfer was more powerful than galactus, i said some stupid PIS can be INTERPRETED that way just like YOU were interpreting ur argument THAT way, n i was tryin to prove the point that if we go by UR logic, surfer can be shown to be more powerful than galactus, which is a RIDICULOUS idea.
Originally posted by King KAM
You agreed with Leonheart on the Franklin Richards versus galactus thread, where HE stated Surfer was even more powerful than galactusHow bout you sit this one out, Daughter🙂
No I didn't. Coming from someone who said that Thanos beat Oblivion, an abstract of the universe and who pulled a weight for Thanos ship out of your ass, you have 0 credibility to recount something accurately.
I agreed with him that Franklin Richards could beat Galactus. Don't extrapolate...that's what usually gets you in trouble in debates.
Now shoo.
Originally posted by King KAM
Thanos cant fly....
hahaha....that's even worse, isn't it? He uses his chair for flight, similar to Surfer's board.
I think you'd be better suited for a Wolverine thread. This is clearly out of your league. Begone.
Originally posted by leonheartmm
btw, if any1 hasnt notcied, on the official site, in bios, thanos has max speed on the power scale, equal to genis, n thas warp speed, same with thor.
But speed on the Marvel stats refer to travel speed, not necessarily combat speed. It's a limitation of their power gradings.
Unless you're saying that Thor has warp speed combat abilities??? Despite being dodged all over the place by Spider-Man
Originally posted by leonheartmm
btw, if any1 hasnt notcied, on the official site, in bios, thanos has max speed on the power scale, equal to genis, n thas warp speed, same with thor.
People have pointed this out repeatedly. The bio also states that he has "near godlike" reflexes and agility.
But for whatever reason, some people on these boards insist on saying that he doesn't have these capabilities. APparently because he missed runner with an eyeblast.
I repeat: there have been exactly zero instances, AFAIK, where thanos has had trouble detecting someone moving at FTL speed. The best case for critics is the runner fight, in which thanos detects runner moving with the space gem, and misses him with a few eyeblasts.
If missing someone means that a character does not have requisite speed to fight him, then spider-man is too slow for rhino.
The Marvel bio doesn't hold a lot of weight to me. It lists all kinds of inconsistent entries. Feats and feats alone count. And in every case, where Thanos has been encountered with FTL speeds, or any kind of abnormally high speeds, he's performed unimpressively.
And even if he could perceive FTL speeds...he'd have to be able to MOVE that fast to defend himself. So all that means is that Thanos can perceive Gladiator punching him a thousand times before his punch hits empty air.
Originally posted by demigawd
[B]But that's my point - Superman CHOSE not to use FTL against Batman. Likewise, Surfer CHOSE not to use FTL attacks against Thanos? Why? Perhaps because it's taxing? Because it's imprecise? Because it's more difficult for Surfer to do? Because he's a dirty commie?
difference being if supes did he'd KILL bats -- something he'd never do so there is a reason he doesn't. fighting mongul was another matter entirely. ss using his speed won't 'kill' thanos. that's the difference.
In truth, Surfer has very limited combat feats at FTL. It just doesn't seem to come as naturally to him as it does to Superman.
i won't even be able to begin debating this with you. ss has shown often enough that he can attack and fight at those speeds.
In battle situations, Surfer uses his speed as an advantage maybe 3/10 times. Superman does it 7/10 times.That's a marked difference. Wouldn't you agree?
not enough to say that is then makes sense for him to NOT use it when an opponent has beat him down repeatedly. that requires pis/cis labels that i'll not grant.
Where was it stated that Thanos' speed increased? We've SEEN increases in strength, durability, and energy projection. We've seen nothing in the speed department.
again, you're asking for too much to be verified. we can both play that game and extend it beyond reason. you're saying thanos beats ss by pis or because ss is a moron. he must also have beaten the fallen one for the same reason then. and the other heralds. it leads to too much. are all these instances pis/cis? again, he consistently beats them -- badly. how can something that happens consistently be cis/pis? why not label cm's attack or the others as pis/cis on thanos's part? to me that stands more to reason.
But here's the problem. If a character is known for strength, and has hundreds of strength feats, then when calculating averages, you have license to dismiss both unusually high showings and unusually low showings. You don't have license to dismiss low speed showings when there are only a handful in the first place. Every one of them has to count, otherwise you have nothing to go on.And of the limited speed situations Thanos was in, in every one of them, he's shown an inability to deal with it.
accept that he beats all these cosmics.
but they didn't use their speed!
why?
pis/cis.
everytime?!
then they were morons!
everytime!?
the argument doesn't do it for me, demi.
But logically speaking, in order to assume the presence of something, you have to show evidence of its presence. You can't just give a character the benefit of the doubt because you're impressed.Let's take Odin as an example. Does Odin have an inability to deal with FTL? By default...YES. But his power level is so high that he would be unaffected by ANYBODY known for their speed long enough to simply destroy them any number of ways that just negate their speed.
Additionally, it's well known that his powers are magical in nature, and it gives him the ability to alter his form or use his powers in ways that are without limit.
None of that applies to Thanos.
G was a bad example - Surfer has actually gotten his licks on Galactus by outmaneuvering him. G's durability was just so insanely high that it didn't matter. Again, against Thanos, that doesn't apply. Superman (wait, this isn't even the Superman thread)...Gladiator is close enough in raw strength to Thanos that it doesn't apply.
g was a good example -- as keeper ss tried liek hell to run away from an ANGRY g -- he wasn't fast ENOUGH! when g finally gets po'd, he tags ss whenever he wants to. speed is irrelevent.
Very clever, but it backfires. Baking a pie simply requires basic movement and motor abilities and a basic level of intelligence that we know Thanos has. Superspeed is a very specific ability.
how very clever of you to tell me that it was clever to use your own words!! 😄
Are we going to start assuming that Thanos has the ability to time travel because he's never shown the ability to not time travel? How about the ability to create life? It opens up a huge can of worms if we start granting powers to people.[/quotes]you're right. but there isn't circumstantial evidence that would lead us to the assumption that he can time travel. he doesn't regularly beat up time travellers. he DOES regularly beat up speedsters.
[quote]Except for one glaring problem....he HAS no feats showing the ability to deal with FTL attacks. None. 100% of his encounters with FTL attacks have shown that he needs other methods to deal with them.
no feats accept other than consistent wins over speedsters.
You simply can't ignore that kind of ignoble record.
and nor can you ignore his even more consistent wins.