Sidious would beat kreia, kreia was strong but not that strong she was defeated by nihilus and the exile not to mention I dont believe she was ever even dark lord of the sith. Sidious is one of the strongest dark lords of all time, if you cant admit that your an EU fanboy. I mean really im sick of this crap that people in the older time periods were better than new time periods all the evidence points exactly opposite.
1.If the old sith were so unbelievably powerful why didnt they just take over the republic? If marka ragnos was the god everyone thinks he is why did he sit his on his ass his whole reign? Sidious actually did it he took over the republic something no other sith has done.
2.People bring up the fact that naga sadow could blow up stars...Its not that hard people just some simple telekinesis most reasonably powerful force users could do it they just havent a need for it, palpatine actually warps the very fabric of space and time itself to create force storms, much more impressive if you ask me.
3. Yes some knowledge was lost in all the years but then knowledge was gained also, do you think the jedi just sit around and do nothing? no they try to expand their knowledge and broaden their view of the force. Not to mention according to the movie plagues knew things no one else knew and he passed it all to sidious.
4.People bring up the fact that sith and jedi fought more wars in the old days, well war experience doesnt count as much as everyone seems to think, knowledge and mastering skills through meditation and training are more important than how much battle time you have gotten. Look how strong sidious and yoda were and they hardly ever fought real battles.
5.On wikipedia sidious is the greatest sith lord and yoda is the wisest and most powerful jedi master in the star wars universe, not saying wikipedia is fact just take it as you will.
And finnaly If you asked george lucas who was the strongest sith ever he would say sidious so there you go...
Originally posted by Great Vengeance
Sidious would beat kreia, kreia was strong but not that strong she was defeated by nihilus and the exile not to mention I dont believe she was ever even dark lord of the sith. Sidious is one of the strongest dark lords of all time, if you cant admit that your an EU fanboy. I mean really im sick of this crap that people in the older time periods were better than new time periods all the evidence points exactly opposite.
No.
1.If the old sith were so unbelievably powerful why didnt they just take over the republic? If marka ragnos was the god everyone thinks he is why did he sit his on his ass his whole reign? Sidious actually did it he took over the republic something no other sith has done.
I explained it again and again:
- Ragnos thought the Jedi would still be stronger than the Sith therefore he kept the Sith fighting each other so that none of them would attack the Republic.
- Sadow failed because the Republic forces were too powerful in his time.
- Kun failed because Ulic betrayed him
And for gods sake: Sidious also failed since his own apprentice killed him and do you know what ? They sended entire armies to stop people like Kun, Nadd and Sadow and they were needed. What was needed to defeat Sidious ? A single Jedi Knight.
2.People bring up the fact that naga sadow could blow up stars...Its not that hard people just some simple telekinesis most reasonably powerful force users could do it they just havent a need for it, palpatine actually warps the very fabric of space and time itself to create force storms, much more impressive if you ask me.
Palpatine does so in Dark Empire and he has his power boosted by a chrystal in that time. If destroying planets is so easily why he and Vader needed the Death Star ?
3. Yes some knowledge was lost in all the years but then knowledge was gained also, do you think the jedi just sit around and do nothing? no they try to expand their knowledge and broaden their view of the force. Not to mention according to the movie plagues knew things no one else knew and he passed it all to sidious.
He didn't pass it all to Sidious. That is clearly said in the movies. And since all the Sith murdered their masters before receiving all the knowledge from them there should be more than "some" knowledge been lost.
4.People bring up the fact that sith and jedi fought more wars in the old days, well war experience doesnt count as much as everyone seems to think, knowledge and mastering skills through meditation and training are more important than how much battle time you have gotten. Look how strong sidious and yoda were and they hardly ever fought real battles.
Oh...at least one true point. Still they had practice fights with their apprentices, masters, padawans, students and so on...
5.On wikipedia sidious is the greatest sith lord and yoda is the wisest and most powerful jedi master in the star wars universe, not saying wikipedia is fact just take it as you will.
Read the Janus disclaimer and stop throwing things from wikipedia like that in here. On wikipedia Revan is the strongest Sith Lord ever and if I would take the time to edit something there, C3PO will suddenly have the power to annihilate the entire universe.
And finnaly If you asked george lucas who was the strongest sith ever he would say sidious so there you go...
Oh...he "would" ? What a great argument...
Sidious gets his ass kicked by Kreia as long as you don't take DE Sidious.
Sidious is one of the strongest dark lords of all time, if you cant admit that your an EU fanboy. I mean really im sick of this crap that people in the older time periods were better than new time periods all the evidence points exactly opposite.
Why do we believe people in the Older time periods are more powerful? Because THEY EXHIBIT MORE POWER. We see no one around Palpatine's time period (during his actual life, not his clone + crystal days) throw stars around like it was their job, like Kun and Sadow could.
Also, NJO Luke could control a black hole. The reason that's not necessarily mentioned as much is because the NJO timeline shows a lot of incongruities as far as force powers go. Chalk this to either poor writing or poor planning. There are simply too many inconsistencies in the NJO timeline to make a definitive verdict.
1.If the old sith were so unbelievably powerful why didnt they just take over the republic? If marka ragnos was the god everyone thinks he is why did he sit his on his ass his whole reign? Sidious actually did it he took over the republic something no other sith has done.
Ragnos intentionally told/ordered/made sure that the Sith Empire sit on its hands. He ruled unquestioned for over a century, but the Empire didn't expand much because he WANTED IT that way. He felt the Republic, combined with the Jedi were far more potent and collusive than the cult that was the Sith -- a cult that mind you, was surprisingly good at killing each other.
2.People bring up the fact that naga sadow could blow up stars...Its not that hard people just some simple telekinesis most reasonably powerful force users could do it they just havent a need for it, palpatine actually warps the very fabric of space and time itself to create force storms, much more impressive if you ask me.
Simple Telekinesis that requires VAST amounts of force. Do not even start with trying to calculate the amount of strength it would take to move a star core in any reasonable measure (pounds, tons), it would contain more digits than you can count.
3. Yes some knowledge was lost in all the years but then knowledge was gained also, do you think the jedi just sit around and do nothing? no they try to expand their knowledge and broaden their view of the force. Not to mention according to the movie plagues knew things no one else knew and he passed it all to sidious.
Have you ever heard of the term "Necessity is the Mother of invention"?
The Jedi after the threat of the Sith were eliminated had practically thousands of years of Pax Republica. What would REQUIRE them to gain new abilities? They may well experiment with new technology, but advances in the era would be slim.
Take a look at the Medieval Era in European History; the era was not marked by incredible progress because there was not the NECESSITY for it. If you can be killed by your own apprentice, walk down the street and get sabered by the guy next door, or stop by the convenience store and get blown up by a Mandalorian, I guess that counts as incentive and/or necessity. Those who live would naturally be those that are stronger and more cunning, natural selection at its finest.
4.People bring up the fact that sith and jedi fought more wars in the old days, well war experience doesnt count as much as everyone seems to think, knowledge and mastering skills through meditation and training are more important than how much battle time you have gotten. Look how strong sidious and yoda were and they hardly ever fought real battles.
Nothing beats/replaces Experience.
5.On wikipedia sidious is the greatest sith lord and yoda is the wisest and most powerful jedi master in the star wars universe, not saying wikipedia is fact just take it as you will.
Wiki what?
Hm. Well, if I was a Sith lord and she was nekkid, I guess she would rule, wouldn't she?Logic stands. Verdict, Padme nekkid pwns all.
Oh yeah? Well Padme nekkid has nothing on Jabba nekki... oh wait.
Nai Fol-
1.no? "What a great argument..."
2.Stop making excuses for ragnos, if we was so powerful he would fear nothing. For sadow once again why didnt he just blow up the republic fleet if hes so powerful?(something sidious can do). Also that single jedi knight was the son of the chosen one who had just owned vader with a years experience, then sidious makes him cry for daddy.
3.wtf? to my knowledge the kyber crystal is something made up by super shadow and even if it isnt the old sith had plenty of sith artifacts to boost their power also. The emperor didnt need the death star that was tarkins toy, the emperor also wanted to keep the knowledge of him being a sith lord under wraps hence why everyone thinks vader is the last of his kind, if he just decided to blow up a planet one day dont you think people would get suspicious? If people knew the emperor himself was a sith lord the rebellion would double in size.
4. So its agreed the war experience argument is wrong, the point goes to me.
5. I didnt say wikipedia is fact but wikipedia does represent the opinion of the majority.
Yes he would I dont imagine he would say "marka ragnos".
Why cant I use DE sidious, it should be both fighters in their prime.
Originally posted by Illustrious
Why do we believe people in the Older time periods are more powerful? Because THEY EXHIBIT MORE POWER. We see no one around Palpatine's time period (during his actual life, not his clone + crystal days) throw stars around like it was their job, like Kun and Sadow could.Also, NJO Luke could control a black hole. The reason that's not necessarily mentioned as much is because the NJO timeline shows a lot of incongruities as far as force powers go. Chalk this to either poor writing or poor planning. There are simply too many inconsistencies in the NJO timeline to make a definitive verdict.
Ragnos intentionally told/ordered/made sure that the Sith Empire sit on its hands. He ruled unquestioned for over a century, but the Empire didn't expand much because he WANTED IT that way. He felt the Republic, combined with the Jedi were far more potent and collusive than the cult that was the Sith -- a cult that mind you, was surprisingly good at killing each other.
Simple Telekinesis that requires VAST amounts of force. Do not even start with trying to calculate the amount of strength it would take to move a star core in any reasonable measure (pounds, tons), it would contain more digits than you can count.
Have you ever heard of the term "Necessity is the Mother of invention"?
The Jedi after the threat of the Sith were eliminated had practically thousands of years of Pax Republica. What would REQUIRE them to gain new abilities? They may well experiment with new technology, but advances in the era would be slim.
Take a look at the Medieval Era in European History; the era was not marked by incredible progress because there was not the NECESSITY for it. If you can be killed by your own apprentice, walk down the street and get sabered by the guy next door, or stop by the convenience store and get blown up by a Mandalorian, I guess that counts as incentive and/or necessity. Those who live would naturally be those that are stronger and more cunning, natural selection at its finest.
Nothing beats/replaces Experience.
Wiki what?
Oh yeah? Well Padme nekkid has nothing on Jabba nekki... oh wait.
Illustrious-
1."Why do we believe people in the Older time periods are more powerful? Because THEY EXHIBIT MORE POWER" Oh really, luke manipulates a black hole, sidious destroys a fleet and instantly transports luke across the galaxy, jacen becomes a counduit to the force. And you cant just disregard DE sidious because hes harder to argue against
🙄
2.Ive already answered this to nai fol.
3.I dont have alot of knowledge on the inner workings of stars but I believe all you would have to do is disrupt the core not move it. Besides how much energy do you think it takes sidious to tear a hole in reality?
4.Well I guess your word is law.
5. wikipedia, represents majority opinion.
i am still waiting for the answer of what did kreia do impressive except cheap shot 3 jedi masters? and yes it was a cheap shot. the masters weren't waiting for old retard with no hand to pop out of no were and take dumps in there mouths. if they knew they would have their lightsabers ignited and would of owned kreia.
Illustrious and Nai Fohl have made some excellent points. I will say that there is precious hope that I can counter them, but I'll do my best. So let's begin.
Allow me to start out by saying that it is my belief that both Traya (Kreia) and Sidious are alike in many ways. Both possess un-natural strength in The Force. Both are excellent at using the Force to forsee future events - with Kreia's being even greater than Sidious's. Both are manipulative and clever - with Sidious being greater than Kreia here. So both have their talents and abilities. Obviously, Kreia's forseeing events and Sidious's manipulative talent will do no good in a one-on-one duel.
Kreia is powerful, indeed. She wiped out three Jedi Masters (like Sidious) with pure ease. I don't quite remember, but I was told she did it with a mere wave of her hand, expressing her strength in The Force. Kreia is also powerful with a lightsaber, like Sidious.
Sidious, while also powerful, is more of a mastermind than a warrior. His most dangerous weapon is not his mastery of the Force or his amazing combat skills, but rather, his mind. Manipulating events and people will not do him any good in this affair.
It would seem that Kreia would defeat Sidious in the end, when looking at evidence. And I would agree. Sidious would not be OWNED. Someone mentioned what I did earlier, about Kreia killing Jedi with a wave of her hand. And yet I wonder why she did not utilize this talent when fighting the Exile. So it would appear to me that this power can be dismissed. Afterall. If you can use it once, why can't you use it again?
The Dark Empire version of Sidious, I believe, would dominate Kreia in a fight. His Force Storm can be counterbalanced, by two powerful Force users such as Leia and Luke. But I don't know if Kreia could do it. Again I may be wrong, but I'm not sure. If Sidious employed the Force Storm, he would defeat Kreia. In lightsaber combat, perhaps as well.
So, in conclusion. In my opinion - Kreia would win against any form of Sidious - EXCEPT for the Dark Empire version of him - where he would conquer her.
Well, as much as Sidious IS my favorite character, I will consent to the factuality of some of their points. Though I will say I will not agree to Nai's apparent negativity of Sidious (yes, we can all see it).
I will, till the very end, prove that Sidious's track record of accomplishments is greater than Ragnos's, Revan's, Kreia's, Malak's, Kun's, Ulic's and so forth.
I will also prove by that, that Sidious is one of the greatest Sith Lords of all time.
Originally posted by Great Vengeance
2.Stop making excuses for ragnos, if we was so powerful he would fear nothing. For sadow once again why didnt he just blow up the republic fleet if hes so powerful?(something sidious can do). Also that single jedi knight was the son of the chosen one who had just owned vader with a years experience, then sidious makes him cry for daddy.
Stop boring me.
Ragnos "feared" nobody. He just did stick to his logic. He knew that he was powerful. He also knew that the Dark Jedi that started the Sith Empire were defeated by the Jedi - so he had to think that the Jedi would be more powerful than the Sith Lords.
He was wrong in that point as it's shown later but that was just a lack of information and no "fear". If Ragnos knew how weak (at least) the Jedi were compared to the Sith he would have been the one to declare war on the Republic.
And since when can Sidious blow up an entire fleet ? Clone Sidious from the Dark Empire comics could do that. Now read my damn post - I said that this version of Sidious would beat Kreia. Sidious from the PT or OT would simply go down.
3.wtf? to my knowledge the kyber crystal is something made up by super shadow and even if it isnt the old sith had plenty of sith artifacts to boost their power also. The emperor didnt need the death star that was tarkins toy, the emperor also wanted to keep the knowledge of him being a sith lord under wraps hence why everyone thinks vader is the last of his kind, if he just decided to blow up a planet one day dont you think people would get suspicious? If people knew the emperor himself was a sith lord the rebellion would double in size.
Now realy. If your knowledge isn't just complete than stop arguing me. Read the damn comics and if that isn't enough read "Splinter of the Minds Eye".
If the Emperor didn't need the death star and that was "Tarkins toy" - why did he built a second one ? Ups...
And Sidious being a Sith Lord ? He wanted to keep that under wraps ? You know that the several people DID knew that (Obi-Wan, Yoda, Bail Organa, Mon Mothma) ? Ever watched RotS ?
And if he could blow up stars and fleets:
a) Why he didn't do that in ROTJ when he had the entire Rebel fleet in his range ?
b) Who would try to defeat somebody that can blow up stars or fleets with his willpower ? If he could have done that in PT or OT times he would have done that - there would never have been a Rebellion.
5. I didnt say wikipedia is fact but wikipedia does represent the opinion of the majority.
Every single person can go there and write an article...blubb.
Why cant I use DE sidious, it should be both fighters in their prime.
You can but you should have posted that. You did not. So...