Sidous vs Kreia

- It is true that Kreia's remarkable ability to drain the Force from the Jedi Masters and leave them devoid of it, and also kill them, has not really been identified. But I still didn't see her use on Scion or the Exile, when she knew that both were looking to kill her. I suppose there is a reason behind it, but I'm not aware of it. A remarkable feat truly. The ability to kill powerful Jedi with a mere wave of the hand. Kreia does indeed deserve credit.

- I would assume that Luke - during the Dark Empire days - was similar to Anakin. If Luke or Anakin ever reached their potential, they would probably be far beyond Kreia, Revan, or Sidious. Potential counts for a lot. Anakin was credited with a great deal more power than he actually displayed in Revenge of the Sith. Anakin and Luke seem to be stronger in the Force than Sidious or Kreia - so I would assume that is where Sidious's defeat in Dark Empire can be attributed to. Both Leia and Luke have the potential to become extremely powerful - with Luke already there. I presume it does indeed have to do with Force Connection - which we can assume - that Luke's and Leia's are beyond Kreia's.

- Luke, seemingly incorruptable, did indeed fall to the Dark Side. Sidious has a knack for manipulating extremely talented and powerful people into falling under his service and to that of the Dark Side. A talent that Kreia lacks - but then again - not something that is particularly useful in the situation. However, Luke turned for a reason. Not because he was tempted by the power, but because he knew he couldn't defeat Sidious. According to Star Wars.com databank, Sidious was virtually immortal - I would assume - due to his cloning. Or perhaps it is evidence of his high level of power.

- The Force Storm in the KOTOR games - even when wielded by Revan - is much, much, much weaker than that of Sidious. Of course, that is because it would sort of be unfair to have access to a feat that can consume ships and fleets. The Force Storm ability IS very great. I don't recall - then again I might lack the knowledge - of any other feat which can consume entire fleets.

- Sidious was also, apparently limited by his old age in Revenge of the Sith, similar to Yoda. In his clone, his mastery of the Force is equal to when he was old - except with the addition of a few new Force powers. He was in prime physical condition. He would be, in essence, stronger and faster than Kreia in lightsaber combat - considering she is an old woman.

And whatever Yoda's abilities are does NOT reflect those of Kriea.

I made an error. Kreia DOES have that ability. I.E Scion and Nihilius. My mistake.

Originally posted by Darth_Janus
- Your idea on Kreia's ability is wild speculation. The facts we have about the ability is it killed three jedi masters instantly and left voids in the Force where their bodies where. Since that's basically what the "new Sith" of the post-Jedi Civil War era do, it only makes sense that this is a "technique in the Force against which there is no defense". Why no defense? Well, did you see them put up a fight? And honestly, when you saw Kreia Force push Vrook like he was a child, did you think that she was weaker than Luke at the time of DE? And if so why?

Yes. My idea on Kreia's ability is speculation. At least I can tell what it was NOT and nobody can say what it was. You can even say she was just able to do that because of dramatic necissarity (Exile without force powers would be not that great trying to fight through the Trayus Academy and Kreia defeating 3 Jedi Masters in a lightsaber fight...well...also very unlikely).

Still she never used it in other situations when she might have needed it (for example when Sion and Nihilus wanted to kill her). That leaves the conclusion that she:

a) can't use it in any situation at least not against other Sith Lords
b) needs some time to focus before she can do that

In both cases it would be very useful vs DE Sidious.

- If he supposively can't be "force drained" that quickly, then I'm still not seeing how that can be different... (Is Sidious' Force powers so much greater than three battle-ready Jedi masters of old) DE Sidious (Who is becoming the next NJO Luke around here) has so far done one thing spectacular in sofar as we know: The Force storm. And because he's twenty, it's the general assumption that he is suddenly god at lightsaber combat. I'd like to see some well-thought out reasons on the table this time, Nai. You're usually very good, but I think you're on the wrong side this time.

I didn't say that he is god in force powers or lightsaber combat. We know what he could do when he was in his 60s with a lightsaber. Now transfering his spirit with all his (force) knowledge into the body of a clone of himself in his 20s and he would clearly posess more physical strength and agility. Don't you think so ?

And well...he used his force storm to pull Luke from Coruscant directly to Byss. Erm...did we ever see somebody else "throw" people from one planet to another (distance: several lightyears) ? I don't think so. And he destroyed capital ships at least the size of the Executor with sheer force powers without any "channeling" (like Sadow used it to destroy stars).

- Luke by himself wasn't enough for DE Sidious (Or so he thought... He still had a long way to go... he fell to the dark side in this series, which is complete and utter bull, but whatever...) How Leia and her almost nonexistant skills and abilities contributed specifically beyond a distraction I can't imagine. But the point is, a former Jedi master and Sith lady Kreia (Who can be anywhere from 60 to a hundred or so years in age) is potentially dangerous and filled with more tapped energy than Luke at this point AND his sister. Of all the KOTOR era Sith, she is the MOST likely to be able to withstand and defeat Sidious using the Force. Her powers, wisdom, and abilities are immense. I think many of you are shortchanging her to jump on the DE Sidious bandwagon.

1.)
Well...we know that Luke tried fighting even when all chances were against him. So when he simply refuses a fight because his opponent is too powerful (and in this time Luke is already on Jedi Master status) I guess the opponent has to be REALY powerful.

2.)
Luke accessed Leias potential to use the force. So this is actualy a Jedi Master with the combined potential of both Skywalker children (and that might surpass Anakins own force potential) against DE Sidious.

3.)
Sidious himself would be (mentaly) 98 years old in that time. He had access to a pre-KotoR time Jedi Holocron, to 1,000 years of Sith teachings and he is the only (not ancient) Sith Lord that ever visited the heart of the old Sith Empire (Ziost) as far as we know. So he might be older than Kreia, he might know more about the ancient Sith than Kreia (since he personaly visited the capital planet of the Sith Empire). And he boosted his force powers beyond the things that I would call "normal". So in force combat Kreia might withstand his powers but I don't think that she can defeat him.

- Her lightsaber abilities are pretty much anyone's guess. Assuming she threw the earlier fight with Sion, she's still as capable as a jedi consular can be. Yoda was a consular, more diplomat and teacher than warrior, and with his wisdom and command of the Force his power is immense. Don't shortchange her just because she isn't flashy in game.

Well...Sion is a Sith Assasin who probably mastered form II. So he's something like Dooku. Did we ever SEE Kreia defeat him in a lightsaber fight ? The only thing I saw was that Kreia lost her hand when she tried to "play" with him.

And one last point: I think DE Sidious is even more useless in versus threads than NJO Luke is.

Really? More useless than NJO Luke? Why?

Because somebody who can throw people from planet to planet with his goddamn force storm is pretty much not defeatable in a duel.

"Oh...20 Jedi Masters coming to kill me" *snip* "Oh look...I threw them into space. Haha"

lmao... True. He does have that ability. Nevermind... De Sidious wins on account of chucking Kreia out in space.

I dont know, Kreia can hold her breath for a real long time.

Yeah, but can she keep her insides from being sucked out heer pores from the vacuum that is space?

you know, it doesnt actually work that way in a vacuum. My friends Dad was accidentaly submitted to a vacuum for over 30 seconds. He is fine now,

what?

I'd assume breath control would do that, yes.

Oh? A vacuum in space? Not a Hoover, mind you.

Originally posted by Human Vader
I'd assume breath control would do that, yes.

Who was the moronic writer that came up with the idea for DE Sidious to be able to throw people across space? THAT is simply overpowered.

Originally posted by darthrevan89
Who was the moronic writer that came up with the idea for DE Sidious to be able to throw people across space? THAT is simply overpowered.

Maybe the same guy that made it so naga sadow could blow up stars...

Darth Sidious would tear Kreia to shreds!

Yeah. . . .which one?

Originally posted by Darth Plagues
Darth Sidious would tear Kreia to shreds!

PLageus, whenever you appear, fanboyism fills the air.

Plagues, I have to agree with Janus. People who say that are fanboys. Offer proof.

Originally posted by Human Vader
I'd assume breath control would do that, yes.

Well...great. So she can hold her breath until reaching the gravity field of a planet (maybe that needs serveral 1000 years of time). Then she can fall through that planets atmosphere just to get completely toasted while doing so or she leaves a deeeeeeeeeeeep impact crater when finaly reaching the surface.