Originally posted by Darth Somebody
This argument goes around in circles and circles.
For some, perhaps. I think it's pretty straightforward based on what is presented.
Palpatine Reborn>non-Force sensitive ships
Palpatine Reborn>pre-NJO Luke
Kreia>Lord Sion
Kreia>Three highly trained Jedi masters (Elapsed time .05 seconds)
Originally posted by Darth_Janus
For some, perhaps. I think it's pretty straightforward based on what is presented.Palpatine Reborn>non-Force sensitive ships
Palpatine Reborn>pre-NJO Luke
Kreia>Lord Sion
Kreia>Three highly trained Jedi masters (Elapsed time .05 seconds)
I thought this was pretty straight forward. Perhaps, Genises, I should tell you what the little symbols mean? And by symbols I mean letters, since I know those logical symbols must be beyond your intelligence.
Originally posted by Darth_Janus
Nai's word, while carrying more weight then say, MAKASHIMAN's, isn't a justification in itself. Unless I missed something where Nai points out logically how Reborn Sidious could counter Kreia's Sith-honed drain power, the same that she used against the Jedi masters, I'll remain on her side in this debate.
Oh...ups... 😉
Ok. I already argued about how Kreia killed the Jedi masters on Dantooine. The things shown in EU stories before simply make me think that this was no force drain (that won't kill people) and it also was not "cutting their connection to the force" since serveral people survived that (The Exile himself, Ulic Quel-Droma when Nomi Sunrider did it to him).
I think she used the force to make them feel the responsibility for thousands of deaths (make them feel what the Exile feeled) thereby killing them. Now...what would that do to Sidious ? He carries the responsibility for the death of thousands if not millions of people and he doesn't seem to care much about it. He's a Sith Lord.
And well...his force powers seem to be immense. I don't think he can be "force drained" that easily. See...Luke at this time (and that's just one year before the Jedi Academy Series) didn't even try to defeat Sidious because he immediatly realised that he can't win. DE Sidious needed Lukes powers and potential combined with Leias potential to be defeated and I don't think Kreia would be able to do that on her own. Because:
a) she would (realy) have less force powers than Sidious (having his force powers boosted)
b) I don't think she is that great with a lightsaber. Sidious as an 60+ year old man in ROTS was quite nice. Having a body that is in his 20s but all the knowledge he had before would also make him more powerful in a physical way.
So yes. I think DE Sidious can take down Kreia powerwise and in a lightsaber duel as well.
Originally posted by Nai Fohl
Oh...ups... 😉Ok. I already argued about how Kreia killed the Jedi masters on Dantooine. The things shown in EU stories before simply make me think that this was no force drain (that won't kill people) and it also was not "cutting their connection to the force" since serveral people survived that (The Exile himself, Ulic Quel-Droma when Nomi Sunrider did it to him).
I think she used the force to make them feel the responsibility for thousands of deaths (make them feel what the Exile feeled) thereby killing them. Now...what would that do to Sidious ? He carries the responsibility for the death of thousands if not millions of people and he doesn't seem to care much about it. He's a Sith Lord.
And well...his force powers seem to be immense. I don't think he can be "force drained" that easily. See...Luke at this time (and that's just one year before the Jedi Academy Series) didn't even try to defeat Sidious because he immediatly realised that he can't win. DE Sidious needed Lukes powers and potential combined with Leias potential to be defeated and I don't think Kreia would be able to do that on her own. Because:
a) she would (realy) have less force powers than Sidious (having his force powers boosted)
b) I don't think she is that great with a lightsaber. Sidious as an 60+ year old man in ROTS was quite nice. Having a body that is in his 20s but all the knowledge he had before would also make him more powerful in a physical way.So yes. I think DE Sidious can take down Kreia powerwise and in a lightsaber duel as well.
- Your idea on Kreia's ability is wild speculation. The facts we have about the ability is it killed three jedi masters instantly and left voids in the Force where their bodies where. Since that's basically what the "new Sith" of the post-Jedi Civil War era do, it only makes sense that this is a "technique in the Force against which there is no defense". Why no defense? Well, did you see them put up a fight? And honestly, when you saw Kreia Force push Vrook like he was a child, did you think that she was weaker than Luke at the time of DE? And if so why?
- If he supposively can't be "force drained" that quickly, then I'm still not seeing how that can be different... (Is Sidious' Force powers so much greater than three battle-ready Jedi masters of old) DE Sidious (Who is becoming the next NJO Luke around here) has so far done one thing spectacular in sofar as we know: The Force storm. And because he's twenty, it's the general assumption that he is suddenly god at lightsaber combat. I'd like to see some well-thought out reasons on the table this time, Nai. You're usually very good, but I think you're on the wrong side this time.
- Luke by himself wasn't enough for DE Sidious (Or so he thought... He still had a long way to go... he fell to the dark side in this series, which is complete and utter bull, but whatever...) How Leia and her almost nonexistant skills and abilities contributed specifically beyond a distraction I can't imagine. But the point is, a former Jedi master and Sith lady Kreia (Who can be anywhere from 60 to a hundred or so years in age) is potentially dangerous and filled with more tapped energy than Luke at this point AND his sister. Of all the KOTOR era Sith, she is the MOST likely to be able to withstand and defeat Sidious using the Force. Her powers, wisdom, and abilities are immense. I think many of you are shortchanging her to jump on the DE Sidious bandwagon.
- Her lightsaber abilities are pretty much anyone's guess. Assuming she threw the earlier fight with Sion, she's still as capable as a jedi consular can be. Yoda was a consular, more diplomat and teacher than warrior, and with his wisdom and command of the Force his power is immense. Don't shortchange her just because she isn't flashy in game.