Living Tribunal looks after the multiverse, which means all alternate realities as well - including What Ifs..
How much sense would it make if one reality's Infinity Gauntlet gave it power over other realities with the exact same Infinity Gauntlet (What if Silver Surfer possessed the Infinity Gauntlet? for instance), there would then be a struggle between both wielders. No. The Infinity Gauntlet of one reality gives the wielder complete power over that ONE reality - not the multiverse.
The Heart of the Universe put Thanos a step above the Living Tribunal which means he'd be able to look and tamper with every universe in the wider multiverse.
Originally posted by K Von Doom
Living Tribunal looks after the multiverse, which means all alternate realities as well - including What Ifs..How much sense would it make if one reality's Infinity Gauntlet gave it power over other realities with the exact same Infinity Gauntlet (What if Silver Surfer possessed the Infinity Gauntlet? for instance), there would then be a struggle between both wielders. No. The Infinity Gauntlet of one reality gives the wielder complete power over that ONE reality - not the multiverse.
The Heart of the Universe put Thanos a step above the Living Tribunal which means he'd be able to look and tamper with every universe in the wider multiverse.
Agreed. The Cosmic Cube is probably the most powerful artifact.
Originally posted by K Von DoomBut according to the latest tampering by Claremont, the mighty Phoenix Force would stick her beak in his ass, cause she is now the Ultimate Supreme Power! rolleyes1
The Heart of the Universe put Thanos a step above the Living Tribunal which means he'd be able to look and tamper with every universe in the wider multiverse.
Originally posted by K Von Doom
Living Tribunal looks after the multiverse, which means all alternate realities as well - including What Ifs..How much sense would it make if one reality's Infinity Gauntlet gave it power over other realities with the exact same Infinity Gauntlet (What if Silver Surfer possessed the Infinity Gauntlet? for instance), there would then be a struggle between both wielders. No. The Infinity Gauntlet of one reality gives the wielder complete power over that ONE reality - not the multiverse.
The Heart of the Universe put Thanos a step above the Living Tribunal which means he'd be able to look and tamper with every universe in the wider multiverse.
This is true, but according to Thanos, who, while empowered with the HOTU, claimed that IG was, according to the scan, mastery of everything, but only on an external level, then should this not be considered the same power as the HOTU?
Look through 'The End', at no point does Thanos discuss multiverses, and reread IG, at no point does THANOS conflict with LT. Thanos showed mastery over all gems in Silver Surfer V3 #44. Nowhere does he say he has no control of the multiverse, in fact, he states that he is a supreme being.
So, it can easily be debated that HOTU is equally effective as IG, seeing as how IG is unlimited energy and the ability to manipulate it, which is what Thanos describes the HOTU as. If I had the HOTU and tried to change your reality, could you not, as possessor of the IG, change it to your will? On levels of power alone, both of these items are limitless, and the most concrete fact we can surmise is that HOTU is all realities instead of just one, like the IG. BUT this alone contridicts the name of the power, as it is the HEART of the UNIVERSE< which Thanos states the IG to give him the power of.
Personally, I believe that IG gives an external access to the HOTU, or equal power, and Warlock's knowledge of the IG was insufficient to overturn the LT.
Originally posted by Nataku8188
[B]This is true, but according to Thanos, who, while empowered with the HOTU, claimed that IG was, according to the scan, mastery of everything, but only on an external level, then should this not be considered the same power as the HOTU?
No. It's not actually. He first talked about the cosmic cube which gave him "some divinity." Then moved on to the IG which gave him control over mind, space, reality, etc. but "it still was external control." It's a progression in power. First the CC, then the IG, now the HOTU.
Also, Thanos was created by Starlin. These sagas are Starlin's. Starlin's upping Thanos' powers and feats all the time. In IG saga, Thanos w/ was still below LT. In The End, Thanos w/ HOTU absorbed LT and all without much effort.
IG<HOTU.
Personally, I believe that IG gives an external access to the HOTU, or equal power, and Warlock's knowledge of the IG was insufficient to overturn the LT.
When was on Thanos' level with the IG. Heck, he snapped his finger and sent an angry Eternity away. He even fast fowarded time. He even knew that he would eventually give into LT's demand. Both he and LT knew of the future outcomes.
Originally posted by Nataku8188No but some things go without saying...it's understood that LT is the guardian of the multiverse, and Thanos becoming his master, usurps his position as well. Just because he didn't take action against other realities doesn't mean didn't have the power to do so. That is of course until a certain annoying little bird rides in the Claremont train to obstruct the Mad Titan. Normally I'd say he'd cage her like a canary and bitchslap her to destruction, but then GS would be all over my ass with his new-found propaganda...but I digress.
Look through 'The End', at no point does Thanos discuss multiverses, and reread IG, at no point does THANOS conflict with LT. Thanos showed mastery over all gems in Silver Surfer V3 #44. Nowhere does he say he has no control of the multiverse, in fact, he states that he is a supreme being.
Personally, I believe that IG gives an external access to the HOTU, or equal power, and Warlock's knowledge of the IG was insufficient to overturn the LT.
I'm going to have to disagree with that...cause Warlock was more in control of his faculties than was Thanos. To err the way he did (subconsciously or whatever) proved that he wasn't as fit as Warlock to possess the gems, and he couldn't possibly know more about them cause Warlock was more focused.
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This may sound corny, but in my mind I've always compared cosmic hierarchy to message forum administration. Pretend that this 'VS' forum is 616...and all the other forums that make up KMC are other realities. Tron would be your Eternity, while Paola would be like LT (assuming there are no other admins/mods with multi-forum powers, aside from the owner). Someone hacking Tron's account and taking over his role would be the IG story arc, while somebody hacking the owner's (whoever he/she is) would possess the 'Heart', and control everyone.
Oh yeah, PS, I forgot to mention this...
About 'external control'...I interpreted that as referring to the fact that he always had to be in possession of the actual glove to be in control of the reality. If you remember, after defeating Eternity, Thanos left his body and assumed his role in the universe...LT even stated earlier that Thanos only seeks to replace Eternity's position as supreme being of the reality. Because he forgot or didn't care about his lifeless physical body, Nebula was able to grab the gauntlet...while the 'Heart' was more like an energy field which he just jumped into, not something that could be duplicated, cause he wiped out the Celestial Order, (I think).
That's just the way I interpreted it...I could be wrong.
Originally posted by Nataku8188
Look through 'The End', at no point does Thanos discuss multiverses, and reread IG, at no point does THANOS conflict with LT. Thanos showed mastery over all gems in Silver Surfer V3 #44. Nowhere does he say he has no control of the multiverse, in fact, he states that he is a supreme being.
With the IG Thanos became supreme being of one reality. He didn't become THE supreme being of ALL realities because... how about the, at least, two other realities with Infinity Gauntlet wielders?
As Lord S mentioned, the discussion of multiverses isn't necessary, it's implied since Thanos with the HOTU is more powerful than the LT.
So far, I've seen no concrete evidence, except personal opinions, as to why the IG wouldn't be the power of the HOTU. Or that Thanos had less control over the IG than Warlock.
From everything I've read in the IG mini, the Silver Surfer issues where Thanos with IG makes appearances, and Marvel: The End, when in possession of the IG Thanos was stated to have-
-Unlimited power
-Ability to warp Mind, Space, Time, and Reality
-Become 'more powerful than ANY force in the universe'
-Become the 'Supreme being in this universe and reality'
-The 'Heart of the Universe' (See the scan back on page 1 or 2)
Now, when he first saw the HOTU, he said it was, "Nothing more than unlimited energy", so, it stands to reason the ONLY difference between the HOTU and the IG is that the HOTU is part of you, as you are part of it, and the HOTU effects multiple realities.
It's like comparing a Comic Forums moderator to a Comic Versus forums moderator. They have all the same powers, but the Comics Forums moderator can apply his powers to all of the forums that lie inside of his.
Now, as for the LT, LT was stated to be a 'cosmic judge of all realities' in the IG mini-series, and yet, he was easily absorbed by the HOTU power Thanos weilded. If the IG is as powerful as the HOTU, is it not reasonable that someone with the correct mastery of it could easily absorb LT as well? If LT can judge all of the forums, like the HOTU has control over, but is less powerful than the controller of the Versus forum, could not the controller of the Versus forum simply ignore him and change whatever he attempted to?
Originally posted by Cosmic Cube
lol... it's true though. She might be supreme now, but sooner or later, she'll get jobbed.
It is true, Phoenix I don't think is supreme though CC, as someone else said on here they reckoned CC (Claremont) not you🙂 had lost it with all his upgrades and I kind of agree. I loved the concept of Phoenix up to the end of Xmen 137 after that it got silly imo. 🙂
Originally posted by Nataku8188
So far, I've seen no concrete evidence, except personal opinions, as to why the IG wouldn't be the power of the HOTU. Or that Thanos had less control over the IG than Warlock.From everything I've read in the IG mini, the Silver Surfer issues where Thanos with IG makes appearances, and Marvel: The End, when in possession of the IG Thanos was stated to have-
-Unlimited power
-Ability to warp Mind, Space, Time, and Reality
-Become 'more powerful than ANY force in the universe'
-Become the 'Supreme being in this universe and reality'
-The 'Heart of the Universe' (See the scan back on page 1 or 2)Now, when he first saw the HOTU, he said it was, "Nothing more than unlimited energy", so, it stands to reason the ONLY difference between the HOTU and the IG is that the HOTU is part of you, as you are part of it, and the HOTU effects multiple realities.
It's like comparing a Comic Forums moderator to a Comic Versus forums moderator. They have all the same powers, but the Comics Forums moderator can apply his powers to all of the forums that lie inside of his.
Now, as for the LT, LT was stated to be a 'cosmic judge of all realities' in the IG mini-series, and yet, he was easily absorbed by the HOTU power Thanos weilded. If the IG is as powerful as the HOTU, is it not reasonable that someone with the correct mastery of it could easily absorb LT as well? If LT can judge all of the forums, like the HOTU has control over, but is less powerful than the controller of the Versus forum, could not the controller of the Versus forum simply ignore him and change whatever he attempted to?
Agreement that Thanos with the IG became supreme being of THIS universe and reality, as you've stated. Not every universe.
And the difference between the IG and the HOTU is that, the latter affects multiple realities.
Your last paragraph is a bit odd. I agree with you that IF the Infinity Gauntlet was as powerful as the Heart of the Universe, the wielder would be able to absorb the Living Tribunal with little trouble. Problem is - that's a big IF.