Exar Kun vs. Yoda & ROTS Darth Vader

Started by Red Nemesis5 pages
Red Nemesis The Blind Critic

I only disagree with this part:

Originally posted by Janus Marius

Here we see him note that he's adept at an extremely difficult Jedi skill, one which is clearly not even shown nor used in the PT era. His access to the Sith holocron and its secrets no doubt should be able to prepare him for the tricks of the Sith, as did his experience in the Hyperspace War and the subsequent mopping up of the Sith planets. His brief training of the technique allowed Nomi to pretty much make Ulic, himself a considerable Force prodigy, into a stooge. By being the foremost expert in this ability, it would stand to reason that it alone would make him dangerous, not counting any other tricks he might have up his sleeve.


He says- And I quote:
"Locked within its recesses, accessible only to a Dark Lord of the Sith are secrets..."
This gives the impression that he was not able to learn from the Holocron. The gatekeeper might not have let him, the Holocron might not be powerable(I just precedented that word) with Light side Force energy, or he just didn't want the knowledge, thinking it dangerous. It is pretty obvious that he didn't learn its secrets.

That's really the only problem I saw with your post. If he could do this in combat then I see no reason not to put him on a level similar to Mace, or at least Qui-Gon, due to his shortcomings in saber technique.

Oh and the Christ punch is either hilarious, if you are intentionally blaspheming, or pitiful, if you aren't being purposefully Ironic.

Janus Marius Plo Koon Rulez!

You're correct, I misread that quote when I was hosting the pic. I withdraw that particular point.

And the Christ Punch is hilarious.

Red Nemesis The Blind Critic

Originally posted by Janus_Marius
And the Christ Punch is hilarious.

I did laugh. Agreed.

Darth Sexy Restricted

Janus, my point is that it's very unlikely Exar Kun could do what you claim he could someone like Yoda, who is clearly his superior in the force department, and then Vader, who could be his equal or his superior. You cannot claim that he throws around jedi knights like ragdolls because we can also look at the quality of those Jedi Knights. The lone exception is Odan Urr and again, despite him being very knowledgeable in the force, he hasn't shown much in the way of applying that knowledge to combat situations in which we would deem him very powerful, such as Yoda or Vader.

Faunus Boss

The difference between Odan and Yoda is that the latter has immense raw power to go along with his almost nine-hundred years in the Temple. Odan was just a scholar, and was never noted in any way to have exceptional potential in the Force, just obscene amounts of knowledge.

Darth Sexy Restricted
Originally posted by Faunus
The difference between Odan and Yoda is that the latter has immense raw power to go along with his almost nine-hundred years in the Temple. Odan was just a scholar, and was never noted in any way to have exceptional potential in the Force, just obscene amounts of knowledge.

That's my point faunus. In terms of force knowledge, it's possible Odan Urr had the most in the star wars mythos. However, he didn't have the potential nor the feats to back that up.

Janus Marius Plo Koon Rulez!

DS:

Janus, my point is that it's very unlikely Exar Kun could do what you claim he could someone like Yoda, who is clearly his superior in the force department, and then Vader, who could be his equal or his superior

Perhaps you're missing something. If Exar Kun easily shrugs off a powerful and difficult sever Force ability from the guy who excelled at them and in turn kills that Jedi Master without doing much more than raising his hand, what is Anakin or Yoda going to do to him while avoiding those casual amulet blasts?

Seriously, consider that. When you come up with a decent answer for that other than "OMFG Odan-urr sux" I might take you seriously.

You cannot claim that he throws around jedi knights like ragdolls because we can also look at the quality of those Jedi Knights.

He has thrown around Jedi like ragdolls quite easily, and he's dominated top tier Jedi masters with casual ease. I know you're going to blow up and go "omfg but they weren't leik teh PT guyz!" because that's how you've always acted, but the point being Exar Kun dominated Force users in his area and once he became a Sith was undefeated. Even as a shade, he dominated Kyp and choked half of Luke's academy after being mad and isolated for thousands of years.

There's no instance of Exar Kun being defeated using the Force and every example of him being unequalled during his timeframe. Even if you want to sit there and tell me the TotJ era jedi masters who were centuries old were completely worthless and only held in high esteem for their useless and non-applied Force knowledge, I'll just ignore you. There's nothing to indicate that the Jedi were weaker simply because they don't have as many showings as Yoda or as much grandiose narration surrounding them as Yoda or Mace. Clearly, they've only been depicted in one form of limited media, not several movies, games, books, comics, etc. Limited exposure is going to make them seem less impressive because they haven't been fighting much of a war during the timeframe in which Exar Kun takes power. Odan-Urr was stalked and killed in his own study without any time to prepare, for example.

The lone exception is Odan Urr and again, despite him being very knowledgeable in the force, he hasn't shown much in the way of applying that knowledge to combat situations in which we would deem him very powerful, such as Yoda or Vader.

I'm not sure how excessive knowledge of the Force and being renowned in arts that specifically were used in fighting the Sith somehow equate to Odan-Urr being some sort of worthless sage. Yoda himself did not fight Sith until the very end of his life and spent most of his years in contemplation, teaching, and intensive study much like Odan-Urr. He was also physically small and weak, and yet it was his understanding of the Force which allowed him to overcome his enemies, not his overwhelming level of power alone.

Faunus:

The difference between Odan and Yoda is that the latter has immense raw power to go along with his almost nine-hundred years in the Temple. Odan was just a scholar, and was never noted in any way to have exceptional potential in the Force, just obscene amounts of knowledge.

I'm not sure where you're drawing this from. Yoda is considered exceptional among the PT Jedi era for his understanding and command of the Force, but a good deal of that comes from his wisdom and practice. Odan-Urr was not some pencil pusher who sat at a desk all day and acquired worthless second-hand knowledge. He notes he was busy cleaning up after the war with Sadow and learned his Force Sever ability combating them. The very fact that he pretty much made up the ability while fighting the Sith is incredible. Yoda doesn't display this level of Force manipulation, even if he should conceivably have knowledge of it. Yoda does not simply try to sever the Force from Sidious, or from Dooku or a host of other Dark Siders he could have done it on.

Just because Yoda has literally dozens of depictions showing him doing all manners of Force feats does not necessarily make him vastly superior to Odan-Urr. Even if he does have more Force potential (Which is a debatable point when you consider you can't measure Odan-Urr's potential at all), this isn't a blank check for him to piss all over Exar Kun. Kun himself was clearly leagues above any of the Jedi Masters in the TotJ era.

So to bring this loop back to a close, Kun >>>>> Odan-Urr. Since Odan-Urr is one of the best TotJ era Jedi along with Vodo, this means Kun is clearly a Force beast at this point, as if his showings weren't enough. The idea that Yoda >>>> all other Jedi masters by virtue of his heavier exposure is flawed.

Faunus Boss

Originally posted by Darth Sexy
That's my point faunus. In terms of force knowledge, it's possible Odan Urr had the most in the star wars mythos. However, he didn't have the potential nor the feats to back that up.
I was agreeing with you. I think he could certainly kick the asses of the vast majority of Force-sensitives in the mythos on account of his knowledge of arcane techniques alone, but many upper-tier beings are probably powerful enough to overpower him.

That said, we've seen Obi-Wan Kenobi stalemate someone of vastly superior power in a Force-contest solely because he had a greater control over his abilities. Obi-Wan was never noted to have truly exceptional potential, so I'd imagine that the thousand year-old Odan would have even greater control over all of his powers. While this wouldn't matter much against people like Dooku or Yoda - and I suppose the rare individuals like Exar Kun and Bane who combine raw power with impressive learning rates and dedication to acquiring knowledge - many Force-users might find their raw power advantage nullified by Odan's far greater control and mastery.

Darth Sexy Restricted

Originally posted by Janus Marius

Perhaps you're missing something. If Exar Kun easily shrugs off a powerful and difficult sever Force ability from the guy who excelled at them and in turn kills that Jedi Master without doing much more than raising his hand, what is Anakin or Yoda going to do to him while avoiding those casual amulet blasts?

Seriously, consider that. When you come up with a decent answer for that other than "OMFG Odan-urr sux" I might take you seriously.


I don't care if you take me seriously bro and I never said Odan Urr sucks. I just said there is NOTHING in the star wars mythos that points to him being exceptional with the force. You don't know why Kun shrugged off the wall of light technique. Either he was more powerful in the force than Odan Urr to the point where he COULD shrug it off, or he had amulet help. At any rate, facing someone who is MORE powerful in the force than he is, is going to give him trouble at the very least. Furthermore, we've seen Yoda dodge 3 jedi with lightsabers without even having one, so excuse me if I feel that he wouldn't have that much trouble dodging Kuns amulet blasts.

He has thrown around Jedi like ragdolls quite easily, and he's dominated top tier Jedi masters with casual ease. I know you're going to blow up and go "omfg but they weren't leik teh PT guyz!" because that's how you've always acted, but the point being Exar Kun dominated Force users in his area and once he became a Sith was undefeated. Even as a shade, he dominated Kyp and choked half of Luke's academy after being mad and isolated for thousands of years.

I'm glad you know how I've always acted. I guess it's better than "The kotor jedi are better because it was a more martial time!" Don't bring that weak shit in here because it didn't work before and it doesn't work now. Nobody was denying Kun's status in the top tier, but you'll have to show me the top tier jedi masters he's dominated. If I say that PT jedi are better, it's because they are, and he has dominated jedi that are far inferior to the PT Jedi. Don't get mad at me for stating facts. The question is could Kun face someone like Yoda and Vader? I highly doubt Kun would win a fight with Yoda alone, so adding another powerhouse like Vader might be overkill. Then again, I don't think Vader is mobile enough to block those amulet blasts.

There's no instance of Exar Kun being defeated using the Force and every example of him being unequalled during his timeframe. Even if you want to sit there and tell me the TotJ era jedi masters who were centuries old were completely worthless and only held in high esteem for their useless and non-applied Force knowledge, I'll just ignore you. There's nothing to indicate that the Jedi were weaker simply because they don't have as many showings as Yoda or as much grandiose narration surrounding them as Yoda or Mace. Clearly, they've only been depicted in one form of limited media, not several movies, games, books, comics, etc. Limited exposure is going to make them seem less impressive because they haven't been fighting much of a war during the timeframe in which Exar Kun takes power. Odan-Urr was stalked and killed in his own study without any time to prepare, for example.

You can "ignore" me all you'd like Janus. Not to mention, telling me what I'm going to say kinda makes you look ridiculous. I'd start trying to be civilized if I were you, unless you want to be ridiculed again in which case you run back to your dying EOD and complain how everyone else sucks. I never claimed anybody was worthless, I just stated that Kun has not fought anyone of Yoda's or Vader's caliber, because he hasn't. There is EVERYTHING to indicate that the Jedi were weaker because they haven't shown anything on the level of the pt jedi. THe whole "well they don't get enough screentime" nonsense doesn't fly. It is up to YOU to prove that they're on the level of the PT Jedi because GL and logic states otherwise. Don't play this pseudo intellectual game because you'll lose. Again.

Lightsnake Senior Member

Originally posted by Janus Marius
DS:

I have seen quite a few people on these very forums indicate Sidious and Yoda being extremely knowledgeable in the Force and old, and by virtue of this they are incredible foes.

Yet somehow when Odan-Urr is the same, he's not even "hinted at being ... powerful"?

Here we see him note that he's adept at an extremely difficult Jedi skill, one which is clearly not even shown nor used in the PT era.


Said technique is still active then. Tholme uses it on himself. Sever Force?
The Tedryn holocron, which recorded Odan's secrets was held by the Jedi of the PT era. Which would include Yoda.
Source: Jedi vs. Sith. The bit of the section of Sever Force reveals Odan's knowledge on that technique specifically was passed down

His access to the Sith holocron and its secrets no doubt should be able to prepare him for the tricks of the Sith, as did his experience in the Hyperspace War and the subsequent mopping up of the Sith planets.

Odan specifically noted the thing was refusing to give up its secrets to him.
I really hate to use the words 'useless dolt,' but that sums up Odan pretty well, and by the PT, Jedi Council members as Yoda had an entire wall full of Sith Holocrons to study and prepare from.
And 'experience' in the Hyperspace war? The 'experience' of standing around, looking sadly at people getting cut to ribbons thanks to his own incompetence? The 'mopping up?' Of who? Massassi and lower ranked Sith considering all the Dark Lords were killed or fled? The 'mopping up' consisted or orbital bombardment of the Sith into extinction. I'm finding it a bit hard to believe Odan had much combat experience at all when he pretty much immediately skipped off to Ossus to found the library

His brief training of the technique allowed Nomi to pretty much make Ulic, himself a considerable Force prodigy, into a stooge.

When Ulic is notably not defending himself or even noticing Nomi is there when he's busy sobbing hysterically over his brother's corpse in realization of what he's done?
Nomi is awesome, but it's not that impressive a feat if the opponent isn't even defending himself.

By being the foremost expert in this ability, it would stand to reason that it alone would make him dangerous, not counting any other tricks he might have up his sleeve.

And as we know, from several sources, it can be resisted.
Odan's power should be called into utter question. He is nowhere near as strong as Yoda, or Palpatine, or Exar, or Luke, or Galen Marek, or Bane, or plenty of other people. Why will his ability suddenly work on them when they're defending themselves? I sincerely doubt Kun had any knowledge of the technique and it didn't cost him much.
Odan has the deficiency of being:
A. A joke of a combatant. He was known for wisdom, not power or ability and in battle, his grand contributions were doing a grand total of nothing during the battle of Kirrek and encouraging the enemy to [B]fight harder at the start of Golden Age of the Sith.
B. Far weaker than most of the greats who, as we can see from Exar, would probably tool Odan's rear end in the Force before he could defend himself or attack


Being able to sever someone's Force connection unwillingly and so suddenly is insanely powerful.

At what point did he sever anyone of significant ability 'unwillingly?' The only times I can think of people doing this are:
Nomi on Ulic. Who is not resisting at all.
Kyle Katarn on Jerec according to Wizards on the Coast's article
Darth Caedus on Ben Skywalker
The one time we see Odan try it's a failure

Granted, he's not out sabering things in the streets, but his level of Force knowledge and capability puts him on a Force level of perhaps Yoda or Mace, perhaps higher at least in verified knowledge.

On their level? On what evidence? Odan devoted apparently no time to power or combat ability.

And yet Exar Kun not only resisted the sever Force ability with ease, he then casually killed Odan-Urr without even drawing his blade. That's a nod to his own considerable Force abilities.

Yes, it is. Now, why is he going to be able to do the same on a far more able, powerful, dangerous and experienced opponent? Someone who has studied how to combat the Sith arts? Someone who had access to Odan's wisdom from the Tedryn Holocron? Someone with such a massive wealth of knowledge, power and combat experience backed up by one of the most powerful young Jedi ever?

Working with that, it's not inconceivable that Exar Kun could manhandle Anakin Skywalker using his powers while spamming blasts at Yoda.

Oh, please, this is blatant bias.
For starters, where is the evidence he can use these powers anywhere near simultaneously? Where is the evidence he can somehow effortlessly multitask against two experienced enemies?
Why won't Yoda be dodging the beams and attacking back at Exar with Anakin?

It's not like he has to remain stationary while they bum rush him. [/B]

Yeah, because Yoda is going to lack any hint of strategy, capability or intelligence all of a sudden, and Exar is enough of a god to effortlessly divide himself up here.

This is silly, Janus.

Lightsnake Senior Member

Originally posted by Janus Marius
[b]DS:

Perhaps you're missing something. If Exar Kun easily shrugs off a powerful and difficult sever Force ability from the guy who excelled at them and in turn kills that Jedi Master without doing much more than raising his hand, what is Anakin or Yoda going to do to him while avoiding those casual amulet blasts?


Oh, God, the 'amulet blasts' argument.

It's not like Sith artifacts can be disabled via the Force, or Exar having to divide attention, or Yoda knowing things like Morichro, Malacia, and given he had the Tedryn Holocron, Force sever. Or just leap up and throw up a force shield and then launch a force wave when Exar is too busy focusing on blasting everything like a deranged lunatic to bother with defense.


Seriously, consider that. When you come up with a decent answer for that other than "OMFG Odan-urr sux" I might take you seriously.

[Quote]
He has thrown around Jedi like ragdolls quite easily,


Unless they are remotely comparable to yoda and anakin in power and ability, irrelevant.

and he's dominated top tier Jedi masters with casual ease.

And as the Jedi in question here are more powerful and skilled than those Jedi, irrelevant. Yoda has dominated a Dark Lord of the Sith with relative ease, who was also a top tier Jedi master before growing even stronger


I know you're going to blow up and go "omfg but they weren't leik teh PT guyz!" because that's how you've always acted, but the point being Exar Kun dominated Force users in his area and once he became a Sith was undefeated. Even as a shade, he dominated Kyp and choked half of Luke's academy after being mad and isolated for thousands of years.

You neglect to mention here that what he did with Kyp was play off his fears. There was no force domination there, there was seducing him to the Dark Side.
You also neglect to mention that Streen was able to stop that choking.

There's no instance of Exar Kun being defeated using the Force and every example of him being unequalled during his timeframe.

This has bearing on a more powerful era, how? Darth Bane was also undefeated and unequalled during his timeframe. Same might go for Revan.
My point here is a simple: What bearing does this have on anything?

Even if you want to sit there and tell me the TotJ era jedi masters who were centuries old were completely worthless and only held in high esteem for their useless and non-applied Force knowledge, I'll just ignore you. There's nothing to indicate that the Jedi were weaker simply because they don't have as many showings as Yoda or as much grandiose narration surrounding them as Yoda or Mace. Clearly, they've only been depicted in one form of limited media, not several movies, games, books, comics, etc. Limited exposure is going to make them seem less impressive because they haven't been fighting much of a war during the timeframe in which Exar Kun takes power. Odan-Urr was stalked and killed in his own study without any time to prepare, for example.

Oh, so the 'they just haven't been in enough' argument? No, that doesn't fly. Odan appeared in three six issue miniseries, that's more than enough time to show something. Kun was in two and was practically the star villain of two novels, with a ton of writing in third party material.
I'm afraid the 'grandiose narration' is still part of the continuity and just because the PT have had more time to show off doesn't mean they're less powerful. If we have to decide between the guys with more backing or the guys with less, where we do we go logically, now?


I'm not sure how excessive knowledge of the Force and being renowned in arts that specifically were used in fighting the Sith somehow equate to Odan-Urr being some sort of worthless sage.

That 'excessive' knowledge line applies to Yoda. Oh, and is there any evidence of Odan fighting Sith now? As I pointed out, he did nothing during the Kirrek battle. The only Dark Lords left had either fled or died after Naga's purge and escape, leaving practically undefended Sith worlds to be genocided.
Odan headed to Ossus after the war. There is no evidence he ever left it since and devoted himself to learning and knowledge.

Yoda himself did not fight Sith until the very end of his life and spent most of his years in contemplation, teaching, and intensive study much like Odan-Urr.

as Yoda happily points out to Whie Malreaux, Yoda's fought and killed more than Whie can imagine. Yoda's early years are shrouded in mystery, but he did a lot of traveling, learning and there was quite a few battling with dark siders along the way. It's implied that he might well have battled some Sith along the way and unlike Odan, when the chips were down in a fight, Yoda proved himself.

He was also physically small and weak, and yet it was his understanding of the Force which allowed him to overcome his enemies, not his overwhelming level of power alone.

And? When Yoda opened himself to the Force, he was a nearly unstoppable fighter and has demonstrated incredible levels of speed and strength

Faunus:

I'm not sure where you're drawing this from. Yoda is considered exceptional among the PT Jedi era for his understanding and command of the Force, but a good deal of that comes from his wisdom and practice. Odan-Urr was not some pencil pusher who sat at a desk all day and acquired worthless second-hand knowledge. He notes he was busy cleaning up after the war with Sadow and learned his Force Sever ability combating them.


and this is contradicted by other sources. He says he became 'adept' with it during the war. And? Odan's contribution to the war was standing around on Kirrek letting people depending on him be torn to bits. Teta and the Republic proceeded to burn the Sith planets to ash afterwards.
Yoda lived an active life. He kept himself sharp and studied hard in the Force and kept his combat skills up to date.

The very fact that he pretty much made up the ability while fighting the Sith is incredible.

Yeah, except there's no evidence he 'made up' the ability and I question his definition of Sith Lord, knowing the Sith Lords were fled or dead by the time Odan would have entered combat.
If he can use sever force on a Sith Acolyte? Good for him.

Yoda doesn't display this level of Force manipulation, even if he should conceivably have knowledge of it.
Yoda does not simply try to sever the Force from Sidious, or from Dooku or a host of other Dark Siders he could have done it on.

Unlike that mongrel idiot Odan, Yoda might actually put some stock in how severing people from the force is a horrible thing not to be done lightly. Not only that, notice how Vodo and Nomi don't use it on Ulic permanently? Or join together for an attack on Exar with it?
By that same standard, when would Yoda have found need or necessity to do so? He needed to kill Palpatine, his equal or near-equal in the Force who would conceivably be able to resist it. And he's there to KILL Palpatine. he wants to save Dooku, not destroy him.The only other times I recall Yoda facing Dark Siders are the Bpfasshi group who he kills and Ventress who he handily defeats without even igniting his saber.

Also, if Force Sever is in such wide appeal during the TOTJ era, why did nobody do it during the third great Schism? Might've helped save an entire star system before the Dark Jedi destroyed it. The idea of Odan just going "Lol Sever Force" at every opportunity is kind of undercut given that the one single time he faced an opponent of great power, his attempt failed and he was instantly killed.


Just because Yoda has literally dozens of depictions showing him doing all manners of Force feats does not necessarily make him vastly superior to Odan-Urr.

Ridiculous assertion. There is no evidence Odan is more powerful and far more evidence on Yoda's side. Plus, Yoda's power in regards to other Jedi is directly stated in certain places.

Even if he does have more Force potential (Which is a debatable point when you consider you can't measure Odan-Urr's potential at all), this isn't a blank check for him to piss all over Exar Kun. Kun himself was clearly leagues above any of the Jedi Masters in the TotJ era.

So what? Unless this has bearing on Yoda, it is irrelevant. Compare and contrast Yoda's abilities to Kun's alones and see who comes out on top. Kun can beat Yoda's inferiors. This isn't a strong case for him at all.

So to bring this loop back to a close, Kun >>>>> Odan-Urr. Since Odan-Urr is one of the best TotJ era Jedi along with Vodo, this means Kun is clearly a Force beast at this point, as if his showings weren't enough. The idea that Yoda >>>> all other Jedi masters by virtue of his heavier exposure is flawed. [/B]

Yeah, we know Kun is something, but guess what? So is Yoda. Yoda's own feats are enough to place him up alongside the best and that includes Exar. His own demonstrated feats are enough to make a case for him on his own against Kun and it's a good case.
That Yoda>>>>the other Jedi based on available evidence and demonstrated ability plus heavy textual backing on Yoda's behalf? Not so flawed

Red Nemesis The Blind Critic

Feel free to not spamquote page distorting comic book panels any time you want. Both LS and DS would do well to take note: THIS RUINED MY SCREEN! I'm sorry, but I really hate having to scroll sideways to read a sentence. Janus, next time just link to the image you want. Plz.

On their level? On what evidence? Odan devoted apparently no time to power or combat ability.

Was it you or Gideon that argued that Increased Mastery = Greater speed? Odan's great knowledge base (he lived long enough) would have to give him some sort of advantage in combat. To say otherwise is to ignore the trends of the rest of the saga.

The rest of your post is virtually flawless.

Lightsnake Senior Member

Not disagreeing that Odan would have some power to devote to amp himself up, but his lack of experience in doing so or devotion of any kind to combat? It kind of hurts.
there's a good gap between being able to do it and do it effectively

Red Nemesis The Blind Critic
Originally posted by Lightsnake
Not disagreeing that Odan would have some power to devote to amp himself up, but his lack of experience in doing so or devotion of any kind to combat? It kind of hurts.
there's a good gap between being able to do it and do it effectively

Hasn't he been shown against any high level opponents? I can't imagine that Kun's main enemy was very weak. I don't read comics, so just how bad was he? I'm only interested in saber feats, so don't throw the 'Battle Meditation' debacle at me. I don't think that you've listed any direct combat feats yet.

Lightsnake Senior Member

'Main enemy?' He met Odan once. Odan is seen with a saber only once in GAOTS and the one person he fights there is a random, low level thug he bisects at the waist.

Otherwise, at Kirrek, the only other battle he's in, he tries and fails to help with his BM and then a soldier screams at him to pick up his saber and help.
Odan's response? Look at him very sadly. The guy is immediately killed by a Massassi.
I like to imagine his name was Trevor and he was ready to retire with his loving wife and attend his daughter's wedding the next day.

As for combat...that's really it that we see until Kun.

Red Nemesis The Blind Critic

I thought that he was the main opponent that Kun had to face. I was wrong. I retract all statements made about Odan prior to this one:

He sucked.

This can be taken out of context, so I'll qualify that. As a direct combatant, he was not particularly competent. He appears to have been a suitable teacher, as he taught Nomi Sunrider (right?) Force techniques rather quickly, if the above comic page is any indication. I would hesitate to say that his teaching ability puts him on par with Yoda or Sidious, both of whom were both able teachers and gifted combatants.

Enyalus MALE DOMINANCE!!!

Originally posted by Red Nemesis
I thought that he was the main opponent that Kun had to face. I was wrong. I retract all statements made about Odan prior to this one:

He sucked.

This can be taken out of context, so I'll qualify that. As a direct combatant, he was not particularly competent. He appears to have been a suitable teacher, as he taught Nomi Sunrider (right?) Force techniques rather quickly, if the above comic page is any indication. I would hesitate to say that his teaching ability puts him on par with Yoda or Sidious, both of whom were both able teachers and gifted combatants.

I'll agree to the fact that saber-wise, Odan-Urr sucked. I do think he was pretty powerful in the Force, given his immense knowledge.

Faunus Boss

Did two people really have to quote the entire post + scan?

Think, people. And LS, you're about to start the "I HATE TOTJ" rant again. Spare me my eyes, please.

Red Nemesis The Blind Critic

To quote myself:

Originally posted by ME
Feel free to not spamquote page distorting comic book panels any time you want. Both LS and DS would do well to take note: THIS RUINED MY SCREEN! I'm sorry, but I really hate having to scroll sideways to read a sentence. Janus, next time just link to the image you want. Plz.

Faunus Boss

Wurd.