Exar Kun vs. Yoda & ROTS Darth Vader

Started by Faunus5 pages
Faunus Boss


Not only that, but Tholme's ability has, I believe, been identified as sever force and according to what's been written on the ability, touching the force again is possible and the technique 'can be broken' with time.
Where is this stated?

The Dark Forces saga article says Kyle uses the 'wall of light' to block Jerec from the power of the Vallaey of the Jedi
Thank you.

Obi-wan's the one who hits the wall harder and Anakin is back up first
That's very weak, especially since you can't prove that Obi-Wan hit the wall harder at all.

And if you noticed, Anakin pretty much jumped from where he'd landed, and Obi-Wan was up and waiting for him by the time they locked sabers. Anakin is physically superior and infinitely more aggressive, so this isn't saying much anyway.

Again, he sends Durge of all people flying with a Force Push...
He levitates a bunch of mines around Durge and detonates them, then knocks the completely dazed bounty hunter into an escape pod. A Force-attack on a momentarily crippled non-Force-sensitive isn't really saying much.

and I believe Tyranus felt his power grow exceptionally. To quote the visual guides, 'dooku realizes too late that Anakin Skywalker is more powerful than he can imagine.'
And I argued this...?

He has near infinite reserves and he can likely tap into his amazing raw power
He still can't overpower Obi-Wan.

Unless Exar is throttling Padme in front of him...this is the same Vader who killed Cin Drallig and not the hysterical, raging Sith who fought Obi, right?
lol

There's a notable difference?

And again, Anakin has quite a bit of textual backing and some feats with the Force. There's no reason to assume he'll be a pushover here
He can't overpower Obi-Wan and the best he ever did against Ventress was wrapping her up in electrical cables. Your "textual backing" praises his raw power and potential; never once does he demonstrate surpassing mastery of that power.

with the Force. Or weaponry. Heck, Ragnos's scepter was blown up when Jaden stabbed it with his saber.
Find me an instance where anyone on Kun's level of power had his or her weaponry destroyed through the Force, or there's no case.

I said in my post: hailfire missiles
From hailfire droids? Those aren't bigger than the Force-blasts.

Lightsnake Senior Member

Originally posted by Faunus
Where is this stated?

I believe either Power of the Jedi or the new Essential Guide to alien species, likely the former.

Thank you.

That's very weak, especially since you can't prove that Obi-Wan hit the wall harder at all.


Ok, I'll withdraw this bit

And if you noticed, Anakin pretty much jumped from where he'd landed, and Obi-Wan was up and waiting for him by the time they locked sabers. Anakin is physically superior and infinitely more aggressive, so this isn't saying much anyway.

See above

He levitates a bunch of mines around Durge and detonates them, then knocks the completely dazed bounty hunter into an escape pod. A Force-attack on a momentarily crippled non-Force-sensitive isn't really saying much.

No, immediately after, Durge roars and charges Anakin. anakin throws him into a wall and then dominates his mind with the Force. Durge isn't 'dazed,' his body is just working to heal the damage.

And I argued this...?

Just saying is all


lol

There's a notable difference?


with the temple there, he's far more methodical and precise as opposed to when he thinks Padme is against him with Obi-wan.

He can't overpower Obi-Wan and the best he ever did against Ventress was wrapping her up in electrical cables. Your "textual backing" praises his raw power and potential; never once does he demonstrate surpassing mastery of that power.

Obsession would be a good indication of that and Dooku feels his power rise to insane levels in their fight. The novelization names him the most powerful Jedi of his generation 'perhaps any generation,'
While I'm not saying he's going to be able to fight Kun, as a combatant, Anakin is substantially deadlier than Odan-ur and a Kun forced to divide his attention between the two of them?

Find me an instance where anyone on Kun's level of power had his or her weaponry destroyed through the Force, or there's no case.

I'll grant nobody on Kun's level has had this happen. Granted, I've never seen someone of Yoda's level try it.

From hailfire droids? Those aren't bigger than the Force-blasts.

From what I recall from the battle of Jabiim, they're quite a bit bigger than a human body. they're pretty huge at any rate.

Lightsnake Senior Member

Here's the quote for Kyle, btw, Faunus:

However, during this rapturous illumination, Kyle used an ancient Force technique to sever Jerec's connection to the Force with a wall of pure light. Kyle then proceeded to cut the Dark Jedi down, sending Jerec's soul screaming toward Chaos alongside the Sith spirits of a thousand years hence. Thanks to his enlightenment, Jerec was well aware of the torture without respite that awaited him there.

Faunus Boss

Originally posted by Lightsnake

No, immediately after, Durge roars and charges Anakin. anakin throws him into a wall and then dominates his mind with the Force. Durge isn't 'dazed,' his body is just working to heal the damage.
Again, he's a non-Force-sensitive who'd just had several dozen mines detonated in his face.

That said, the battle with Durge is one of my favorite Anakin Skywalker moments, and overall it is a very impressive showing on his part considering Durge had been killing Jedi for two thousand years. But the Force aspect of it alone isn't all that outstanding.

with the temple there, he's far more methodical and precise as opposed to when he thinks Padme is against him with Obi-wan.
That's hard to judge.

Obsession would be a good indication of that and Dooku feels his power rise to insane levels in their fight. The novelization names him the most powerful Jedi of his generation 'perhaps any generation,'
In raw power? It's rather obvious he's the best. But that means little, because outside of lightsaber combat - in which he absolutely excels - he has not demonstrated truly impressive use of the Force.

While I'm not saying he's going to be able to fight Kun, as a combatant, Anakin is substantially deadlier than Odan-ur and a Kun forced to divide his attention between the two of them?
Would Anakin be able to resist whatever it is Kun did to Odan?

From what I recall from the battle of Jabiim, they're quite a bit bigger than a human body. they're pretty huge at any rate.
Even if they're larger, the missiles are one-shot weapons. The amulet appears to fire a sustainable beam of energy, or at least several very rapid-fire blasts.

However, during this rapturous illumination, Kyle used an ancient Force technique to sever Jerec's connection to the Force with a wall of pure light. Kyle then proceeded to cut the Dark Jedi down, sending Jerec's soul screaming toward Chaos alongside the Sith spirits of a thousand years hence. Thanks to his enlightenment, Jerec was well aware of the torture without respite that awaited him there.
It says "during this rapturous illumination." What was that, and could it have helped?

Gideon Restricted

Jerec was absorbing the power of the Valley of the Jedi. According to Jedi Master Rahn, he'd be able to destroy a star system "in a whisper."

Faunus Boss

Oh. So Jerec was the one being "illuminated."

Gotcha.

Gideon Restricted

Originally posted by Faunus
Oh. So Jerec was the one being "illuminated."

Gotcha.

Yes.

Jerec is very uber.

Faunus Boss

Jerec is balls.

Lightsnake Senior Member

Originally posted by Faunus
Again, he's a non-Force-sensitive who'd just had several dozen mines detonated in his face.

He's a Gen'Dai. Durge was able to take being sliced in half, decapitated, sliced to pieces and blown up from the inside without much trouble. After some of the things he got from Grievous, mines blowing up in his face isn't that bad and he was far from dazed. Don't forget it's extra difficult to even slightly influence something like Durge...he's ot no central nervous system, just a cluster of nerves all throughout his body

That said, the battle with Durge is one of my favorite Anakin Skywalker moments, and overall it is a very impressive showing on his part considering Durge had been killing Jedi for two thousand years. But the Force aspect of it alone isn't all that outstanding.

I have to disagree. While the force push thing is a bit in question, his complete domination of Durge's mind is...something.


That's hard to judge.

Well, by the novelization, Anakin/Vader is very cold, ruthless and practical when he leads Operation Knightfall, kills Jurokk and goes for Shaak Ti...with Obi-wan? He believes Padme has betrayed him and has set him up for Obi-wan to kill. He's much more out of control at that point and nowhere near as in control as he was when he was throttling Bene through the force with one hand and kills Cin with one hand and a saber
Also, he takes out Jocasta Nu, who was Jerec's Master and a former Council member herself without any effort and to yank her up like that with the Force, he'd have to have torn through any defenses she raised like Bane did to Qordis.

In raw power? It's rather obvious he's the best. But that means little, because outside of lightsaber combat - in which he absolutely excels - he has not demonstrated truly impressive use of the Force.

Would Anakin be able to resist whatever it is Kun did to Odan?


Possibly. Seems a rather vicious display of power/TK Kun did. Either force choking Odan-unlikely, given Odan is speaking, crushing his heart or just bringing his power on him.
As far as power goes, Anakin has far more raw power and potential than Odan, and is likely better with it in combat.

Even if they're larger, the missiles are one-shot weapons. The amulet appears to fire a sustainable beam of energy, or at least several very rapid-fire blasts.

Yes, but multiple missiles at once?
Not only that, but we've no idea if Kun can blast them off instantly or if he can do it indefinitely. TOTJ isn't really giving us an indicator of this.
And again, if Yoda dodges the beam, he is very likely to instantly strike back, and it leads to mind if Kun will be able to recover enough to defend himself

It says "during this [b]rapturous illumination." What was that, and could it have helped? [/B]

Without copy/pasting, when Jerec is absorbing the power of the valley, he temporarily becomes purely omniscient. Kyle uses Sever Force to cut him off from the power of the valley and the Force, but likely drops it when he throws Jerec back his saber.

Faunus Boss

Originally posted by Lightsnake
He's a Gen'Dai. Durge was able to take being sliced in half, decapitated, sliced to pieces and blown up from the inside without much trouble.
If by "not much trouble" you mean "needed lots of recovery time," yeah. He never just walked away from the truly devastating injuries.

After some of the things he got from Grievous, mines blowing up in his face isn't that bad and he was far from dazed. Don't forget it's extra difficult to even slightly influence something like Durge...he's ot no central nervous system, just a cluster of nerves all throughout his body

I have to disagree. While the force push thing is a bit in question, his complete domination of Durge's mind is...something.

Do you think you could link me to the page? I can't download the comic from swtimeline, and I certainly don't remember any "domination" of Durge's mind.

Well, by the novelization, Anakin/Vader is very cold, ruthless and practical when he leads Operation Knightfall, kills Jurokk and goes for Shaak Ti...with Obi-wan? He believes Padme has betrayed him and has set him up for Obi-wan to kill. He's much more out of control at that point and nowhere near as in control as he was when he was throttling Bene through the force with one hand and kills Cin with one hand and a saber
I don't know about that. Vader isn't completely loony during his duel with Obi-Wan, since he still takes a moment to taunt him.

Also, he takes out Jocasta Nu, who was Jerec's Master and a former Council member herself without any effort and to yank her up like that with the Force, he'd have to have torn through any defenses she raised like Bane did to Qordis.
Well, Jocasta Nu would be at best a lesser Odan-Urr, unless she has some incredible Force-power that I'm unaware of. But yeah, that's fair.

Possibly. Seems a rather vicious display of power/TK Kun did. Either force choking Odan-unlikely, given Odan is speaking, crushing his heart or just bringing his power on him.
I don't think it was telekinetic; there was an aura around his arm, if I'm not mistaken.

As far as power goes, Anakin has far more raw power and potential than Odan, and is likely better with it in combat.
But still not good enough to overpower Obi-Wan. 😛

Yes, but multiple missiles at once?
Not only that, but we've no idea if Kun can blast them off instantly or if he can do it indefinitely. TOTJ isn't really giving us an indicator of this.
He fires several blasts in a short span of time; each panel has him hitting something different, or at least more of one thing.

And again, if Yoda dodges the beam, he is very likely to instantly strike back, and it leads to mind if Kun will be able to recover enough to defend himself
Kun isn't staggered or tired after using it the very first time - although he notes that his hand is burned - so I doubt there would be real recovery time.

Without copy/pasting, when Jerec is absorbing the power of the valley, he temporarily becomes purely omniscient. Kyle uses Sever Force to cut him off from the power of the valley and the Force, but likely drops it when he throws Jerec back his saber.
Got it.

Lightsnake Senior Member

Originally posted by Faunus
[B]If by "not much trouble" you mean "needed lots of recovery time," yeah. He never just walked away from the truly devastating injuries.

When Obi-wan sliced him in half, he was back on his feet in pretty short order. Not having organs or a central nervous system kind of helps Durge and he's shrugged off some what should be really crippling or mortal wounds

Do you think you could link me to the page? I can't download the comic from swtimeline, and I certainly don't remember any "domination" of Durge's mind.

Unfortunately, I don't have a digital copy of obsession, but Anakin evades Durge, slashes him twice, force pushes him into the wall, reaches out and murmurs some lines while concentrating and guiding Durge to the pod before closing it and launching him out

I don't know about that. Vader isn't completely loony during his duel with Obi-Wan, since he still takes a moment to taunt him.

That's still a good dose of pure homicidal rage compared to cold professionalism in the temple, though.

Well, Jocasta Nu would be at best a lesser Odan-Urr, unless she has some incredible Force-power that I'm unaware of. But yeah, that's fair.

Even so, she was an former Council Member and if her padawan is any indication, she likely wasn't nothing...and her knowledge was probably up ther. Granted, she's not a being of significant power, but she is an experienced Jedi master and this is a point in Ani's favor

I don't think it was telekinetic; there was an aura around his arm, if I'm not mistaken.

The entire panel is tinted with a reddish aura, I believe, which typically represents 'dark power being used' like the blue tint is light side...I think Kun's arm is just extended

But still not good enough to overpower Obi-Wan. 😛

PIS?

He fires several blasts in a short span of time; each panel has him hitting something different, or at least more of one thing.

Yeah, but there's a difference between 'instant' and 'short space of time.' When facing an opponent like Yoda, that makes a difference.
At the very least, Exar has to move his arm to aim and then fire.

Kun isn't staggered or tired after using it the very first time - although he notes that his hand is burned - so I doubt there would be real recovery time.

I would say it's more enlightening for Kun than anything. Even so, can you really say he's going to be able to keep spamming blasts while having to devote himself to attacks from two fronts? When one of the opponents is Yoda?

Lightsnake Senior Member

Also, that reminds me...since when is this 'force only?' Why wouldn't Anakin and Yoda have their sabers ready?

Enyalus MALE DOMINANCE!!!

What Kun does to Odan-Urr reminds me of a Force Drain...especially given a description of Force Drain in Jedi vs. Sith.

Kun can also use Force Lightning...although, with sabers out, I do think that'd be less effective against Vader than his amulet blast.