Originally posted by Robtard
Nein.A top class Star Fleet craft could decimate the planet, let alone the bunker, it could make a crater where the shield gen sits.
too bold of an assumption.
its shielded, after all.
Originally posted by Robtard
The Super SD/Star Destroyers are extremely formidable no doubt, but like a battleship, their main shortcoming is maneuverability, they rely on sheer power. They also lack shields, correct? The tractor beams are a plus, but how do they fare on vessels ith shields? How many can they "lock" onto at once? Even the Borg with their technology had trouble on more than one occasion holding onto a S.T. vessel.
star destroyers certainly do have shields. while the weakness of their shields is in the tower generators, it seems that aside from that, they are are impenetrable. in star trek it seems that even the most insignificant phaser blast disrupts their shields to some degree.
Originally posted by Robtard
Star fleet vessels have shields on every ship, a major advantage, some also have cloaking capabilities. Transporters are also a huge plus, what would happen if 50 armed Klingons transported into a Star Destroyers command center and went apeshit like they do?
yes, they would have an edge with transporters. however they would also be taking on an army of stormtroopers, so the only effective attack would be to transport an explosive, imho. however this is under the assumption that the empire's shields wouldnt block a transport.
btw, also consider a star wars weapon which the federation lacks: ion cannons, which strip a vessle of shields and weapons by draining it of power, as well as transporter ability i would assume.
Originally posted by Robtard
Also of note, the Federation is not only the Earth ships, they have many worlds that make up the Federation, the Vulcans and the Klingons being two heavy hitters.
klingons maybe, but vulcans? i dont recall them being powerful...or even having any sort of military at all.
Originally posted by Kahless
ok, sostartrek has phasers
starwars has lasers
in the startrek the next generation: "The outragious Ocona" the enterprise's hull alone is invulnerable to lasers
simply put... starwars can not even harm the basic hull of a startrek ship let alone one with its shields up
I think they called the metal "tritanium."
Originally posted by Schecter
too bold of an assumption.
its shielded, after all.star destroyers certainly do have shields. while the weakness of their shields is in the tower generators, it seems that aside from that, they are are impenetrable. in star trek it seems that even the most insignificant phaser blast disrupts their shields to some degree.
yes, they would have an edge with transporters. however they would also be taking on an army of stormtroopers, so the only effective attack would be to transport an explosive, imho. however this is under the assumption that the empire's shields wouldnt block a transport.
btw, also consider a star wars weapon which the federation lacks: ion cannons, which strip a vessle of shields and weapons by draining it of power, as well as transporter ability i would assume.
klingons maybe, but vulcans? i dont recall them being powerful...or even having any sort of military at all.
It's shielded, but the land around it isn't, crumble the foundation and a house will fall, no matter how sturdy it's walls or roof are. That's the angle I'm thinking.
I wasn't aware of the SD shields, that changes things a bit, how are they in numbers of ships though? The Fed shields do weaken with hits, that is the point of them though, they absorb damage so the ship doesn't. I would assume this is the same with the Empire shields.
Not sure an army of Troopers are ready and waiting on the command deck? Besides, it wouldn't be to destroy the ship per say in one strike, just cause enough havoc to weaken/gimp the ship while the battles rages outside. The teleporting of explosives is good though, didn't think of that one. I'm under the assumption that shields work the same in both franchises, once their weak, a transport can go through, that or finding the frequency and working around it.
Ions canons are a plus, like I said though, Fed ships have been able to adapt and resist Borg various Borg attacks for short periods... we can agree that the Borg have greater technology than either the Fed or the Empire? So it's possible that the ion canons may not be as effective as they are on smaller ships, like we've seen in Star Wars.
The Vulcans have powerful ships, not war ships per se, but capable ships for a fight. Another Star Trek strength, diversity and numbers (multiple races/worlds).
Edit:
Does a Star Destroyer have the ability to replica a cup of "tea, Earl Grey, hot." in an instant? If not, they lose.
In terms of tech Star Wars > Star Trek infinently.
Originally posted by Schecter
star destroyers certainly do have shields. while the weakness of their shields is in the tower generators, it seems that aside from that, they are are impenetrable. in star trek it seems that even the most insignificant phaser blast disrupts their shields to some degree.
Not commenting on who would win (really) but in terms of Trek vs. Wars wouldn't Wars vessels need to hit Trek vessels to affect their shields?
Really, from the movies Wars cap ships move like slugs, and fighters seem to have ranges not all that superior to fighters in our time (dog fighting), are they going to be able to hit Trek ships that... well, just seem quicker and more manoeuvrable?
In terms of tech Star Wars > Star Trek infinently.
I have heard about that site... people often say it is rather biased and uses odd calcs to get results - things about Palpatine being able to take Superman and Lightsabers being able to cut through Wolverines bones.
:edit: @ robtard:
well, the extent of the shield generator's own shield is never truly explained. in fact, it could be that the entire planet of endor was shielded, considering that luke/han/leia had to use an imperial shuttle and request shield deactivation to even land on the planet.
as seen in RotJ, the imperial fleet would obnoxiously outnumber large federation ships. this assumption based on footage of the federation/borg battle in 'first contact' vs the final battle in RotJ.
that plus countless swarms of tie fighters and bombers to battle the smaller defiant class ships. it just seems to me that extreme brute force and numbers of ships and troops would be on the side of the empire.
a genius problem solver like data might find ways to infiltrate, but thats anyone's call.
no, never said that the borg's technology was better or worse. i just think that the empire might not easily rid themselves of them. after all, assimilating thousands of mindless clones wouldnt be too difficult.
assimilate a few dozen stromtroopers, send them to a barracks disguised in their armor, instant takeover. maybe even go back in time and assimilate palpatine before he learns to use the force. so many possibilities makes the borg a wild card.
:edit: wait...that wouldnt help them to assimilate palps since that would likely mean no sith. i dont think the borg would be able to defeat a republic protected by jedi.
Originally posted by Imperial_Samura
Not commenting on who would win (really) but in terms of Trek vs. Wars wouldn't Wars vessels need to hit Trek vessels to affect their shields?Really, from the movies Wars cap ships move like slugs, and fighters seem to have ranges not all that superior to fighters in our time (dog fighting), are they going to be able to hit Trek ships that... well, just seem quicker and more manoeuvrable?
just say it. the empire is full of retards who cant aim or strategise. ffs the idiot captains in ESB managed to almost collide their star destroyers chasing after the millenium falcon...nothing more than a tiny suped up freighter. so yes, another wild card: the empire's idiocy.
Hmm... a necro thread.
It would take such a thing with an interesting topic to lure me back to the GDF.
But this isn't really an interesting topic.
I don't understand the question.
Star Trek doesn't have the Force, does it?
Or Jedi Knights like Obi-Wan Kenobi and Jedi masters like Yoda?
Or Sith Knights like Darth Maul and Sith masters like the Emperor?
Or lightsabers?
So how in the heck can you even compare the two?
Star Wars pisses all over anything Trek-related.
starwars
Originally posted by sithsaber408
Hmm... a necro thread.It would take such a thing with an interesting topic to lure me back to the GDF.
But this isn't really an interesting topic.
I don't understand the question.
Star Trek doesn't have the Force, does it?
Or Jedi Knights like Obi-Wan Kenobi and Jedi masters like Yoda?
Or Sith Knights like Darth Maul and Sith masters like the Emperor?
Or lightsabers?
So how in the heck can you even compare the two?
Star Wars pisses all over anything Trek-related.
starwars
i didnt think it was possible to dumb down such a silly thread, but you triumph once again.
Originally posted by Schecter
:edit: @ robtard:well, the extent of the shield generator's own shield is never truly explained. in fact, it could be that the entire planet of endor was shielded, considering that luke/han/leia had to use an imperial shuttle and request shield deactivation to even land on the planet.
as seen in RotJ, the imperial fleet would obnoxiously outnumber large federation ships. this assumption based on footage of the federation/borg battle in 'first contact' vs the final battle in RotJ.
that plus countless swarms of tie fighters and bombers to battle the smaller defiant class ships. it just seems to me that extreme brute force and numbers of ships and troops would be on the side of the empire.a genius problem solver like data might find ways to infiltrate, but thats anyone's call.
no, never said that the borg's technology was better or worse. i just think that the empire might not easily rid themselves of them. after all, assimilating thousands of mindless clones wouldnt be too difficult.
assimilate a few dozen stromtroopers, send them to a barracks disguised in their armor, instant takeover. maybe even go back in time and assimilate palpatine before he learns to use the force. so many possibilities makes the borg a wild card.
Okay, that is a possibility.
Outnumbered as far as small vessels yes, But those small vessels lack shields/fire power and as noted by Imperial Samura, they lack range. A Defiant class could easily take out a swarm of Tie ships... though small(er) Defiants are pure war ships, they're over gunned, over armoured, manuverable to the extrme, have cloaking and can fight at high speeds. A large Fed ship could take on even more Ties at once. The Empire would have to rely on the Star Destroyers.
Data is another (possible) ace in the hole, good call.
I was using the Borg as an example of the Federations ability to adjust quickly to a superior foe. Though in specs, the Borg could easily have destroyed all Federation planets. They have thousands of worlds worth of Borg and ships as stated in show and film. If written right, the Borg would have sent thousands and thousands of Cubes to take on the Fed, not a small hand-full, but the story has to have a happy ending.
Edit: The Jedi and and the force are the Star Wars anti-borg card. Problem is, how many Jedi exist compared to the Borg millions. Also, a victory would most likely be accomplished in a space battle.
Originally posted by sithsaber408
Hmm... a necro thread.It would take such a thing with an interesting topic to lure me back to the GDF.
But this isn't really an interesting topic.
I don't understand the question.
Star Trek doesn't have the Force, does it?
Or Jedi Knights like Obi-Wan Kenobi and Jedi masters like Yoda?
Or Sith Knights like Darth Maul and Sith masters like the Emperor?
Or lightsabers?
So how in the heck can you even compare the two?
Star Wars pisses all over anything Trek-related.
starwars
Schector is right, you're a fanboy retard...
Anyhow, what will a Jedi Knight on a ship do against a Star Trek vessel?
Battle meditation. All of the Star Trek personnel will lose there focus and generally lose the urge to battle. An ability that even Padawans can use. Or..
Darth Sideous force storm, which destroyed an entire FLEET in mere seconds and ripped a whole in space-time. It can also teleport people across the galaxy. Darth Nihlus force drain completely destroyed an entire planet and killed every living thing on said planet except for one person, who he wanted to survive.. Luke Skywalker can manipulate black holes, Naga Sadow's space ship was able to detonate Stars and create supernovas.
You can say anything you want, but Star Trek doesn't really hold a candle to Star Wars. And Sithsaber knows what he's talking about. Don't call him a fanboy retard when he speaks the truth.
Originally posted by Shin_Blax
Battle meditation. All of the Star Trek personnel will lose there focus and generally lose the urge to battle. An ability that even Padawans can use. Or..Darth Sideous force storm, which destroyed an entire FLEET in mere seconds and ripped a whole in space-time. It can also teleport people across the galaxy. Darth Nihlus force drain completely destroyed an entire planet and killed every living thing on said planet except for one person, who he wanted to survive.. Luke Skywalker can manipulate black holes, Naga Sadow's space ship was able to detonate Stars and create supernovas.
You can say anything you want, but Star Trek doesn't really hold a candle to Star Wars. And Sithsaber knows what he's talking about. Don't call him a fanboy retard when he speaks the truth.
Curious why these abilities weren't used in the battle scenes in the movies... Obi Wan, Qui Gon Jin or Darth Maul could have taken out everyone, why bother with space battles.
If you look at it logically, or as logically as a topic like this can be, it's not an easy one-sided fight.
He's a retard fanboy, you seem to be too.
How am I a retard fanboy? Star Wars doesn't stop at the movies, foo'. You're forgetting KOTOR, the comics, and the novels, all of which are part of the Star Wars universe, so they are all applicable. Don't cry about it. This is the Star Wars universe vs. the Star Trek universe, so anything pretty much goes.
Originally posted by Shin_Blax
How am I a retard fanboy? Star Wars doesn't stop at the movies, foo'. You're forgetting KOTOR, the comics, and the novels, all of which are part of the Star Wars universe, so they are all applicable. Don't cry about it. This is the Star Wars universe vs. the Star Trek universe, so anything pretty much goes.
I didn't mean "fanboy retard" in a bad sense, as weird as that seems. Just that you're letting your bias get in the way of looking at both from an objective viewpoint.
Care to answer my question though, if a Jedi can take out the masses (even in a space battle) with his/her anus puckering concentration trick, why wasn't in done in the movies?
Originally posted by Shin_Blax
Battle meditation. All of the Star Trek personnel will lose there focus and generally lose the urge to battle. An ability that even Padawans can use. Or..
I thought conventional wisdom on the matter was Palpatine was so significant because he had B.M. and the Empire went all to hell afterwards without his Force holding it together?
Unless this is KOTOR, then it is true for the big name characters at any rate. Bastila Shan was special because her battle meditation was useful against Revan and Malek's forces. And the Exile, who was pretty exceptional and who was noted as having a special effect on their followers, thus why adults with no Jedi/Sith training could still be turned into killer Jedi in the course of the game
I'm not sure "an ability even Padawans can use" is fully true..
Darth Sideous force storm, which destroyed an entire FLEET in mere seconds and ripped a whole in space-time. It can also teleport people across the galaxy. Darth Nihlus force drain completely destroyed an entire planet and killed every living thing on said planet except for one person, who he wanted to survive.. Luke Skywalker can manipulate black holes, Naga Sadow's space ship was able to detonate Stars and create supernovas.
So wait, is this thread all of Star Wars against just the Federation? If it is the entirety of Star Wars history (Nihlus, Naga Sadow) shouldn't all of Star Trek be thrown in as well?
Which would include things like the Q and Prophets and what have you?