Star Trek versus Star Wars: The Debate is Opened

Most of the attacks that I just mentioned weren't required in the time setting that the movies take place in. The Prequel Trilogies time line the Republic was pretty much completely peaceful, full scale wars hadn't been fought for thousands of years. As such the Jedi didn't feel the need to teach there students such destructive abilities. (I'm referring to techniques like Battle Meditation, which would be useless in an age that didn't have any full scale "battles". Darth Sideous didn't learn the Force Storm ability until after he had been resurrected as a clone in the Dark Empire series, which happens after the movies.

The force drain was a purely destructive attack, literally eating the life essence of people, as such Jedi wouldn't be taught such a move, and Nihlus was a wound in the force. only certain, very powerful ancient Sith could use that attack in the first place. Naga Sadow's ship was infused with Sith magic and both he and his ship were destroyed thousands of years before the movies, and the secrets to the

Luke is pretty much the strongest character in Star Wars history, but he didn't become that powerful until 20+ years after Return of the Jedi.

So basically, to answer your question, the Jedi had no need to learn such abilities because the age that they lived in was completely peaceful, and by the time the Clone Wars occurred it was pretty much too late. However, many powerful "destroy in mass" techniques were used in the Clone Wars, and we don't see them because the movies only cover a small fraction of the Clone Wars. For example, mace Windu has an ability called "Shatterpoint" that allows him to see the weakness in anything. he can literally shatter a diamond by tapping it in the right place. he used this ability to defeat Darth Sideous in Return of the Sith.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=yJgEiXarCow

(Excuse the crappy music, was one of the best videos I could fine.)

Note some of the attacks. Yoda levitating hundreds of Battle droids in time for nearly hundreds of enemy ships to fly into them and explode. Yoda using the force to make two massive troop transports collide with each other. Mace and Yoda together using the force to force push what looks like an entire army of droids back, to the point were they look like a giant wave.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=s_hN5zplt5s&mode=related&search=

Mace fighting an entire army droids by himself and without a Lightsaber. And before you say it, yes, Lucas did indeed confirm that these powers are not uncommon for powerful Jedi. Why Mace didn't simply use these powers on Geonosis.. I'm too tired to explain. However just for food for thought Lucas said that the army on Geonosis was absolutly massive, it was a factory planet, after all. Not too mention that the army on Geonosis had a lot more tanks and walkers, and had much more air support.

Originally posted by Shin_Blax
Most of the attacks that I just mentioned weren't required in the time setting that the movies take place in. The Prequel Trilogies time line the Republic was pretty much completely peaceful, full scale wars hadn't been fought for thousands of years. As such the Jedi didn't feel the need to teach there students such destructive abilities. (I'm referring to techniques like Battle Meditation, which would be useless in an age that didn't have any full scale "battles". Darth Sideous didn't learn the Force Storm ability until after he had been resurrected as a clone in the Dark Empire series, which happens after the movies.

But that doesn't gell - Battle Meditation was a rare ability, full scale war or not. Otherwise Bastila Shan wouldn't have been so important to the war effort against Revan and Malak if just anyone could learn it. I am fairly sure it has been described as a "rare ability".

And are you saying that theoretically a Jedi/Sith could learn any ability if the need was there and time? I was under the opinion some Jedi/Sith were more powerful then other Jedi/Sith, and thus not every Jedi is going to have the abilities of, say, Yoda even if Yoda trained them.

So basically, to answer your question, the Jedi had no need to learn such abilities because the age that they lived in was completely peaceful, and by the time the Clone Wars occurred it was pretty much too late.

And because not every Jedi would have been able to learn them anyway, since not every Jedi has the midichlorians of Yoda. Anikan, Luke or whoever.

Originally posted by Shin_Blax
Most of the attacks that I just mentioned weren't required in the time setting that the movies take place in. The Prequel Trilogies time line the Republic was pretty much completely peaceful, full scale wars hadn't been fought for thousands of years. As such the Jedi didn't feel the need to teach there students such destructive abilities. (I'm referring to techniques like Battle Meditation, which would be useless in an age that didn't have any full scale "battles". Darth Sideous didn't learn the Force Storm ability until after he had been resurrected as a clone in the Dark Empire series, which happens after the movies.

The force drain was a purely destructive attack, literally eating the life essence of people, as such Jedi wouldn't be taught such a move, and Nihlus was a wound in the force. only certain, very powerful ancient Sith could use that attack in the first place. Naga Sadow's ship was infused with Sith magic and both he and his ship were destroyed thousands of years before the movies, and the secrets to the

Luke is pretty much the strongest character in Star Wars history, but he didn't become that powerful until 20+ years after Return of the Jedi.

So basically, to answer your question, the Jedi had no need to learn such abilities because the age that they lived in was completely peaceful, and by the time the Clone Wars occurred it was pretty much too late. However, many powerful "destroy in mass" techniques were used in the Clone Wars, and we don't see them because the movies only cover a small fraction of the Clone Wars. For example, mace Windu has an ability called "Shatterpoint" that allows him to see the weakness in anything. he can literally shatter a diamond by tapping it in the right place. he used this ability to defeat Darth Sideous in Return of the Sith.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=yJgEiXarCow

(Excuse the crappy music, was one of the best videos I could fine.)

Note some of the attacks. Yoda levitating hundreds of Battle droids in time for nearly hundreds of enemy ships to fly into them and explode. Yoda using the force to make two massive troop transports collide with each other. Mace and Yoda together using the force to force push what looks like an entire army of droids back, to the point were they look like a giant wave.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=s_hN5zplt5s&mode=related&search=

Mace fighting an entire army droids by himself and without a Lightsaber. And before you say it, yes, Lucas did indeed confirm that these powers are not uncommon for powerful Jedi. Why Mace didn't simply use these powers on Geonosis.. I'm too tired to explain. However just for food for thought Lucas said that the army on Geonosis was absolutly massive, it was a factory planet, after all. Not too mention that the army on Geonosis had a lot more tanks and walkers, and had much more air support.

Wish you hadn't told me all that "uberness" that was left out of the movies, Star Wars just dropped a rung or two on the ladder for me. I give Lucas respect for not 'stupifying' the movies more.

I'd be just as lame if in the varies Star Trek books/comics, writers took the liberty of writing in that Capt. Picard was really God (of Abraham) in human form.

Originally posted by Imperial_Samura

But that doesn't gell - Battle Meditation was a rare ability, full scale war or not. Otherwise Bastila Shan wouldn't have been so important to the war effort against Revan and Malak if just anyone could learn it. I am fairly sure it has been described as a "rare ability".

It was rare but many Jedi could still learn it through intense practice (Oxymoron XD ).

[quote]And are you saying that theoretically a Jedi/Sith could learn any ability if the need was there and time?

Theoretically, yes. Practically, I doubt it.

I was under the opinion some Jedi/Sith were more powerful then other Jedi/Sith, and thus not every Jedi is going to have the abilities of, say, Yoda even if Yoda trained them.

Absolutely, I didn't meant to pass it off as if all Jedi could do that stuff, just that they were an indication of how powerful the characters in the SW Universe can be.

And because not every Jedi would have been able to learn them anyway, since not every Jedi has the midichlorians of Yoda. Anikan, Luke or whoever.

Right, but Midichlorians can only help you so far. Experience and practice play a much bigger role then your mitochlorian count. For example, Mace Windu and Yoda are stronger then Akain, despite having less mitochlorians, because they have so much more experience.

Wish you hadn't told me all that "uberness" that was left out of the movies, Star Wars just dropped a rung or two on the ladder for me. I give Lucas respect for not 'stupifying' the movies more.

I'd be just as lame if in the varies Star Trek books/comics, writers took the liberty of writing in that Capt. Picard was really God (of Abraham) in human form.

I agree completely. I dislike the EU (Expanded Universe) quite a bit as well. The EU authors really raped the force.

btw, also consider a star wars weapon which the federation lacks: ion cannons, which strip a vessle of shields and weapons by draining it of power, as well as transporter ability i would assume.

again, even if somehow an ion cannon takes away a startrek ships sheilds and weponds.... starwars vessals STILL cant hurt the hulls

MAYBE, they could board it somehow, but that would mean cutting through the hull somewhere... also impossible for starwars

Why can't they hurt the hulls?

Originally posted by Shin_Blax
Why can't they hurt the hulls?

Because they're made of an alloy that's specifically resistance to Star Wars. The manual says so.

"The Manuel"? If it's a Star Trek Universe manual then no, it's wrong, unless Lucas arts approved of it.

Originally posted by Robtard
Because they're made of an alloy that's specifically resistance to Star Wars. The manual says so.

How is that passable? 😕

Lightsabers, psychic powers, laser guns, bitches in thongs, ATST walkers, and yoda. Nothing more need be said...,STAR WARS.

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
How is that passable? 😕

Because I pulled it out of my ass.

Originally posted by Robtard
Because I pulled it out of my ass.

You seem to do that a lot. 😆 😛

Originally posted by Shin_Blax
How am I a retard fanboy? Star Wars doesn't stop at the movies, foo'. You're forgetting KOTOR, the comics, and the novels, all of which are part of the Star Wars universe, so they are all applicable. Don't cry about it. This is the Star Wars universe vs. the Star Trek universe, so anything pretty much goes.

well EU makes the debate ridiculous. one jedi or sith can wipe out the entire federation with the force if thats the case. utterly ridiculous to enter non-canon evidence in the debate imho, especially since none of it was concieved by george lucas.

Originally posted by Kahless
again, even if somehow an ion cannon takes away a startrek ships sheilds and weponds.... starwars vessals STILL cant hurt the hulls

MAYBE, they could board it somehow, but that would mean cutting through the hull somewhere... also impossible for starwars

without power they would have no shields or weapons.
without shields their hulls would be torn apart. werent you paying attention in wrath of khan and just about every other film?

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
You seem to do that a lot. 😆 😛

Not really, things I say in a non-joking matter I can backup with facts or reasonable logic.

Originally posted by Schecter
well EU makes the debate ridiculous. one jedi or sith can wipe out the entire federation with the force if thats the case. utterly ridiculous to enter non-canon evidence in the debate imho, especially since none of it was concieved by george lucas.

without shields their hulls would be torn apart. werent you paying attention in wrath of khan and just about every other film?

Khan-nnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnn!

Originally posted by Robtard
Not really, things I say in a non-joking matter I can backup with facts or reasonable logic.

I was joking with you, silly. 🙄

Originally posted by Robtard
Because they're made of an alloy that's specifically resistance to Star Wars. The manual says so.

ok, they cant hurt the hulls because in star wars, they use lasers

now in startrek, spcifiaclly the episode "the outragous Ocana" the crew of the enterprise discuss how laser do not harm the hull of federation starships.

since starwars vessals use lasers.... they cannot hurt federation vessals w/o shields, let alone those with several layers of shielding

Star Trek and Star Wars are completely different genres.

Originally posted by Kahless
ok, they cant hurt the hulls because in star wars, they use lasers

no, they use blasters
never is it said that they use lasers.
you're just inventing evidence for the win, which while pathetic, is still a few notches above dragging star-wars EU into the debate for the win.

Originally posted by Kahless
ok, they cant hurt the hulls because in star wars, they use lasers

now in startrek, spcifiaclly the episode "the outragous Ocana" the crew of the enterprise discuss how laser do not harm the hull of federation starships.

since starwars vessals use lasers.... they cannot hurt federation vessals w/o shields, let alone those with several layers of shielding

I wasn't serious when I said that, just pulling crap out of my ass to win the argument, like others are doing.