<<Id have a guess and say Thanos would be capable of breaking the armour as well Leo.>>
not sure i'd agree with that, but supposing he did, THEN what? breaking the armor seemed to actually make onslaught MORE powerful. and i'm not convinced the psychic attacks wouldn't work. he's not COMPLETELY invulnerable to them and at the least he could be struck and hurt by a tk blast. and you said nate was the strongest telepath on the planet - but he couldn't do jack to onslaught. thanos was trapped in that world, but his power certainly didn't appear diminished. he just couldn't escape.
<<How do you think Onslaught would win?>>
i could respond with the same question to you. thanos weapons are destructive power blasts and strength. if he DID break the armor, now onslaught is pure psychic energy. what is thanos going to do? without gadgets he can't contain him, so . . .?
to be honest, onslaught was too unclearly represented for me to get into a prolonged debate about - i've too little evidence to bring forth. however, based upon who he battled, (xmen, avengers - with scarlet witch - ff, nate, hulk, cable AND dr. doom!) based upon what he did to juggs (i really can't imagine regular thanos doing that to juggernaut) and factoring in what others have done to thanos (he did engage thing and thor in combat, but it was clearly demonstrated that thor at least was able to hurt him with his hammer in that fight - thor was completely ineffectual against onslaught) i still don't see there being a clear and decisive winner in this match. i'd call it pretty damn even and give onslaught his share of the victories.
"And the Hulk thing... Hulk was extremely mad (read : strong), and Onslaught still owned him. It was only in the final punch that Hulk broke his armor (that, by the way, already was broken - a bit - and some people say it was all part of Onslaughts plan)."
True, it was broken a bit, Thor burst thru him to retrive Prof x. It was some kinf of plan for Onslaught to become energy.
Originally posted by GalacticStormCreating a second sun is considered nothing? Onslaught was clearly a mini-Celestial by the time he had Franklin, and Thanos would be a grease-spot real quick against him.
You are seriously overrating Onslaughts power. He is not way too powerful for Thanos. Not at all. Onslaught is not skyfather level especially without FR's power which he never fully had anyway. His biggest feats under his own power are nothing to Thanos'.
But if we're talking about Onslaught w/o Franklin, then Thanos would pwn him fairly easily.
Originally posted by armandovallesWow...is ignorance really as blissful as they say?
didnt Thanos once hand Tyrant his ass?! if so, Thanos owns Onslaught.
Originally posted by joesha28What do you mean you got pics...those are MY pics!
i got Tyrant vs Thanos pics........http://webhome.idirect.com/~sprasher/images/1.jpg
http://webhome.idirect.com/~sprasher/images/2.jpg
Originally posted by leonidas
<<Id have a guess and say Thanos would be capable of breaking the armour as well Leo.>>not sure i'd agree with that, but supposing he did, THEN what? breaking the armor seemed to actually make onslaught MORE powerful. and i'm not convinced the psychic attacks wouldn't work. he's not COMPLETELY invulnerable to them and at the least he could be struck and hurt by a tk blast. and you said nate was the strongest telepath on the planet - but he couldn't do jack to onslaught. thanos was trapped in that world, but his power certainly didn't appear diminished. he just couldn't escape.
<<How do you think Onslaught would win?>>
i could respond with the same question to you. thanos weapons are destructive power blasts and strength. if he DID break the armor, now onslaught is pure psychic energy. what is thanos going to do? without gadgets he can't contain him, so . . .?
to be honest, onslaught was too unclearly represented for me to get into a prolonged debate about - i've too little evidence to bring forth. however, based upon who he battled, (xmen, avengers - with scarlet witch - ff, nate, hulk, cable AND dr. doom!) based upon what he did to juggs (i really can't imagine regular thanos doing that to juggernaut) and factoring in what others have done to thanos (he did engage thing and thor in combat, but it was clearly demonstrated that thor at least was able to hurt him with his hammer in that fight - thor was completely ineffectual against onslaught) i still don't see there being a clear and decisive winner in this match. i'd call it pretty damn even and give onslaught his share of the victories.
How did breaking the armour seem to make him more powerful? I wouldnt consider that a correct assessment. He was merely free from his psionic shell. He never did anything more impressive than when he was encased in his psionic armour. It made him virtually invulnerable to physical harm however as shown by his defeat as an energy being he is still capable of being contained. Thanos is a top level energy wielder and has dealt with beings beyond Onslaughts power such as Kosmos(The Beyonder in female form) Magneto has virtually no telelpathic power but due to the fact that he wields electromagnetic energies in abundance (which in Marvel inhibit telepathy) and he has powerful mental shields, backed by an indomitable will he's able to hold off mental assaults from Xavier as he's done on many an occassion. Thanos is a powerful telepath with extremely powerful psychic shielding and a virtually matchless will. A psychic assault would take far too much much time and effort from Onslaught to have any effect and in the meantime Thanos could fight him on a physical front. Breaking his armour is well within his capabilities. Thanos as an eternal can augment his physical strength psionically and by means of cosmic energy. As a top level energy wielder Thanos is capable of containing him . Nate was perhaps the most powerful psionic on the planet in terms of raw power however he was woefully inexperienced and most of his feats were down to intuition and instinct. Therefore he was no match for Onslaught whatsoever. It is an assumption with all beings trapped in a dimension that their powers arent fully effective or employable on the main dimension. If that wasnt the case why can these beings can always only take over the world or exact their plans once theyre free from their dimensional prison.
If Onslaught is free and in energy form it it common knowledge that electromagnetic energies can interfere with, inhibit, restrict psionic energies. psionic energies are after all just brain synapses. I dont see why Thanos wouldnt be able to contain him or cause him harm. Xaviers astral form has been hurt by a female member of the Acolytes before who could disrupt energy fields. Onslaught isnt invulnerable in taht form im afraid.
Onslaughts greatest feats at the end of the day were not under his own power. Onslaught is the combination of Xavier and Magneto nothing more nothing less. He is no match for Thanos in any way, shape or form. Onslaught never fought all those teams you mentioned en masse. He hid behind his shields and sent out energy waves. When hulk got through he dealt with Onslaught. Magneto has done the same to more than one team as has Exodus. Listing that as one of Onslaughts feats is nothing impressive as it is accomplishable by a mere mutant.
Thors hammer hardly proved ineffectual it helped to crack Onslaughts armour with one or two blows. However if him and Thor went at it in a one on one physical fight then you'd see just how effective Mjolnir would be and then you could draw comparisons between Thors encounters with Thanos who actually engaged Thor head on. Slight difference.
Thanos is more powerful than Onslaught. His own psionic prowess and his control of electromagnetic energies helps in nullifying Onslaughts main form of attack. Onslaught is left with Magnetos abilities. Need i say more?
"Thanos is below Skyfather-level but he is extremely close. He held off Hulk, Thor, Herc....beaten SS. But he also was beaten by Thor and Silver Surfer in a one on one too. No clear winner."
Thanos is above herald level and below the gods/beings that are close to skyfather level.
Thanos as far as i know never lost against Thor and Silver Surfer.
Originally posted by GalacticStorm
How did breaking the armour seem to make him more powerful? I wouldnt consider that a correct assessment. He was merely free from his psionic shell. He never did anything more impressive than when he was encased in his psionic armour. It made him virtually invulnerable to physical harm however as shown by his defeat as an energy being he is still capable of being contained. Thanos is a top level energy wielder and has dealt with beings beyond Onslaughts power such as Kosmos(The Beyonder in female form) Magneto has virtually no telelpathic power but due to the fact that he wields electromagnetic energies in abundance (which in Marvel inhibit telepathy) and he has powerful mental shields, backed by an indomitable will he's able to hold off mental assaults from Xavier as he's done on many an occassion. Thanos is a powerful telepath with extremely powerful psychic shielding and a virtually matchless will. A psychic assault would take far too much much time and effort from Onslaught to have any effect and in the meantime Thanos could fight him on a physical front. Breaking his armour is well within his capabilities. Thanos as an eternal can augment his physical strength psionically and by means of cosmic energy. As a top level energy wielder Thanos is capable of containing him . Nate was perhaps the most powerful psionic on the planet in terms of raw power however he was woefully inexperienced and most of his feats were down to intuition and instinct. Therefore he was no match for Onslaught whatsoever. It is an assumption with all beings trapped in a dimension that their powers arent fully effective or employable on the main dimension. If that wasnt the case why can these beings can always only take over the world or exact their plans once theyre free from their dimensional prison.If Onslaught is free and in energy form it it common knowledge that electromagnetic energies can interfere with, inhibit, restrict psionic energies. psionic energies are after all just brain synapses. I dont see why Thanos wouldnt be able to contain him or cause him harm. Xaviers astral form has been hurt by a female member of the Acolytes before who could disrupt energy fields. Onslaught isnt invulnerable in taht form im afraid.
Onslaughts greatest feats at the end of the day were not under his own power. Onslaught is the combination of Xavier and Magneto nothing more nothing less. He is no match for Thanos in any way, shape or form. Onslaught never fought all those teams you mentioned en masse. He hid behind his shields and sent out energy waves. When hulk got through he dealt with Onslaught. Magneto has done the same to more than one team as has Exodus. Listing that as one of Onslaughts feats is nothing impressive as it is accomplishable by a mere mutant.
Thors hammer hardly proved ineffectual it helped to crack Onslaughts armour with one or two blows. However if him and Thor went at it in a one on one physical fight then you'd see just how effective Mjolnir would be and then you could draw comparisons between Thors encounters with Thanos who actually engaged Thor head on. Slight difference.
Thanos is more powerful than Onslaught. His own psionic prowess and his control of electromagnetic energies helps in nullifying Onslaughts main form of attack. Onslaught is left with Magnetos abilities. Need i say more?
okay, since you want to continue debating this, a few things:
first. as regards the breaking armor making him more powerful. see scan.
second, he never did anything more impressive because the heroes instantly sacrificed themselves BEFORE he had the chance. it is very clear reed thought him a much greater threat. it is speculation on your part that thanos's energy blasts could 'disrupt' onslaught and that onslaught was not invulnerable. reed himself says he is untouchable and many very powerful energy wielders don't bother attacking him but rather try to contain him with their physical and mental selves. at the cost of their lives. call me crazy, but i don't think thanos would use that particular tactic.
third, onslaught was CLEARLY more than a simple synthesis of mags and x. he created a friggin' sun! even at the end of the series, though he had not fully harnessed franklin, he must have had at least SOME of his powers. he also engaged maddened hulk in battle h2h. mags or x could never do that. (and the armor was NOT cracked prior to hulk attacking.) and hulk hardly 'dealt' with him. he was ko'd in the end AND only helped hasten onslaught evolution.
fourth, even IF onslaught couldn't screw with thano's mind (which i'm not wholly convinced of), thanos would STILL be susceptible to psionic force blasts and all of onslaught's other capabilities.
fifth, you say nate was inexperienced. so an inexperienced nate and hulk thwarted thanos. a for thanos power IN that realm - why couldn't he have all his power but simply not be able to break free and act on his plans? inbetweener was trapped with all his power, but it did him no good in thanosquest.
lastly, thor's hammer did nothing in that battle. it did not help crack the armor, it had no effect whatsoever on the shields. all thor did was lead the heroes onward to the final sacrifice.
you've said nothing to change my stance on this issue. in making me look closer at them both, i can see onslaught perhaps even having a slight edge in this battle.
i cant believe some people. Thanos wins this. He's too powerful for Onslaught. Onslaught has psionic attacks, superhuman strength, agility, and invulnerability. He also has the combined powers of Xavier and Magneto. He can create illusions and stun people. However, Thanos has superhuman strength, agility, and endurance. Thanos can blast psionic attacks and energy blasts. All in all, Thanos is more superior
Originally posted by leonidasActually Thor (w/hammer) managed to penetrate Onslaught to rescue Xavier. Cable tweaked Joseph's power to crack the armour, and Cyclops let loose with a massive optic blast, and Sue used her powers to widen the hole. Thor then flew in and grabbed Xavier.
lastly, thor's hammer did nothing in that battle. it did not help crack the armor, it had no effect whatsoever on the shields. all thor did was lead the heroes onward to the final sacrifice.
So Mjolnir didn't exactly pierce the armour from the front...but it did from the inside on the way out of Onslaught's back.
Originally posted by Dark ThorI think it's been well stated that Onslaught is a lot more than just Magneto and Xavier. In his early stages I have no problem with giving Thanos the victory...but by the end he was siphoning Franklin's power, and created a second sun. As powerful as Thanos is, I don't think even he can do that.
i cant believe some people. Thanos wins this. He's too powerful for Onslaught. Onslaught has psionic attacks, superhuman strength, agility, and invulnerability. He also has the combined powers of Xavier and Magneto. He can create illusions and stun people. However, Thanos has superhuman strength, agility, and endurance. Thanos can blast psionic attacks and energy blasts. All in all, Thanos is more superior
<<Actually Thor (w/hammer) managed to penetrate Onslaught to rescue Xavier. Cable tweaked Joseph's power to crack the armour, and Cyclops let loose with a massive optic blast, and Sue used her powers to widen the hole. Thor then flew in and grabbed Xavier.
So Mjolnir didn't exactly pierce the armour from the front...but it did from the inside on the way out of Onslaught's back.>>
point acknowledged. what part of the x-over did that happen in again? anywho, i was sort of getting at the fact that thor's hammer alone had been insufficient to the task. but i undrestand what you're saying and you're right.
and i agree - by the end of th book, onslaught (even without FULLY harnessing franklin's power) was at a level similar to thanos's.
Originally posted by leonidas
okay, since you want to continue debating this, a few things:first. as regards the breaking armor making him more powerful. see scan.
second, he never did anything more impressive because the heroes instantly sacrificed themselves BEFORE he had the chance. it is very clear reed thought him a much greater threat. it is speculation on your part that thanos's energy blasts could 'disrupt' onslaught and that onslaught was not invulnerable. reed himself says he is untouchable and many very powerful energy wielders don't bother attacking him but rather try to contain him with their physical and mental selves. at the cost of their lives. call me crazy, but i don't think thanos would use that particular tactic.
third, onslaught was CLEARLY more than a simple synthesis of mags and x. he created a friggin' sun! even at the end of the series, though he had not fully harnessed franklin, he must have had at least SOME of his powers. he also engaged maddened hulk in battle h2h. mags or x could never do that. (and the armor was NOT cracked prior to hulk attacking.) and hulk hardly 'dealt' with him. he was ko'd in the end AND only helped hasten onslaught evolution.
fourth, even IF onslaught couldn't screw with thano's mind (which i'm not wholly convinced of), thanos would STILL be susceptible to psionic force blasts and all of onslaught's other capabilities.
fifth, you say nate was inexperienced. so an inexperienced nate and hulk thwarted thanos. a for thanos power IN that realm - why couldn't he have all his power but simply not be able to break free and act on his plans? inbetweener was trapped with all his power, but it did him no good in thanosquest.
lastly, thor's hammer did nothing in that battle. it did not help crack the armor, it had no effect whatsoever on the shields. all thor did was lead the heroes onward to the final sacrifice.
you've said nothing to change my stance on this issue. in making me look closer at them both, i can see onslaught perhaps even having a slight edge in this battle.
First as regards to the breaking of the armour making him more powerful the scan proves nothing. All it shows is that he became more dangerous as he became an energy being which as everyone in the scan says is bad because he is no longer a physical being who could be blugeoned to death. It is mere speculation on your part that he became more powerful and as such this point is invalid.
Given that Xaviers astral form could be disrupted withn ease by the Acolyte( something which happened after the Onslaught saga i might add) and that this was done electromagnetically, given Magnetos past battles with the Xmen where he has been able to inhibit Xaviers telepathy through such energies as well id say its a fair bet that Thanos could do the same. That is all within reason.
Onslaught created a sun and built his fortress by tapping into Franklins power. Under his own resources he simply was not shown to be capable of such a feat. its as simple as that. Onslaughts greatest feat under his own power was punking Juggernaut and holding off the heroes. Nimrod has messed up Juggs before and powerful mutants have held heroes at bay before. Under his own power he's done nothing to show he's on Thanos' level. Yeah he did engage a maddened hulk who was winning for the majority of the fight before Onslaught knocked him down and held him, Hulk then proceeded to shatter Onslaught across the battlefield. The fact that the explosion from this shattering unleashed a wave of reality altering power which seperated Banner from Hulk, suggests that Onslaught was drawing on Franklins power and had access to it during that fight.
Onslaughts powers are Magneto's and Xaviers. Thats it. During the Onslaught saga he captured Nate and Franklin and drew on their power. Their abilities were not Onslaughts abilities im afraid. As you've admitted you dont believe Onslaught could win by assaulting Thanos' mind. Well thats Xavier out of the picture, so whats he left with? Magnetos powers. SS can do everything Magneto can to a greater extent and more. Thanos slaughters SS.
I see Lord S has dealt with your Mjolnir subject. You've been corrected theres nothing else to say on that matter.
<<First as regards to the breaking of the armour making him more powerful the scan proves nothing. All it shows is that he became more dangerous as he became an energy being which as everyone in the scan says is bad because he is no longer a physical being who could be blugeoned to death. It is mere speculation on your part that he became more powerful and as such this point is invalid.>>
no more invalid than your opinion that he DIDN'T become more powerful. i'm inclined to believe my opinion of course, because reed says he has evolved (ie- PROGRESSED, GROWN) into this final form.
<<given Magnetos past battles with the Xmen where he has been able to inhibit Xaviers telepathy through such energies as well id say its a fair bet that Thanos could do the same. That is all within reason.>>
he was MORE than either combined.
<<As you've admitted you dont believe Onslaught could win by assaulting Thanos' mind.>.
i said he MIGHT not be able to assault him mentally. but thanos is not completely invulnerable to mental attacks - just very very resistant to them.
<<Their abilities were not Onslaughts abilities im afraid.>>
through his power he made their power his own. what difference does it make if he originally HAD the ability? i'm discussing onslaught as we saw him in the books. not what he 'might have been', not exactly how he was born, but the power level he displayed in the books. now it's you who's making an assumption on what onslaught was or wasn't capable of. by the end of the battle, did he or did he not have reality altering power? yes. did he create a sun? yes. did he wield power that thanos could not? it is certainly debateable.
if he simply was x and mags i'd be inclined to believe you. he was more though. and lord s clarified that thor WAS able to do some damage, yes, but it changes nothing about what i said earlier - thor ALONE was able to do nothing. it wasn't until the crack had ALREADY appeared in the armor, and then had been WIDENED by the combined efforts of several heroes, that thor was able to do anything. on his own, his power was exactly as ineffectual as i said it was. (btw, never mind the issue # lord s - xmen 336. found it.)
the watcher himself claims that onslaught is a NEW lifeform as far above mutants as mutants are above man. he is an ultimately powerful telepath, with control over the electromagnetic spectrum and the ability to alter and shape reality. on his own, thanos is a bionically enhanced eternal with powerful destructive blasts and superstrength.
