The Official BLEACH series Thread

Originally posted by dadudemon
I would agree with that if it weren't for the fact that there is no instance of energies being concentrated into smaller packages, in Bleach. There is no reference, hint, or implication that they are concentrated. In fact, we might even have evidence that they are weak shots because Lily's blasts were so weak that Sickman was able to stop it with his bare hands...and Lily comprises the guns. On top of that, we have proof from the manga that the more powerful the blast, the larger the cero.

Evidence: Menos Grande's cero's were much larger/thicker than Lily's blasts and Starrk's blasts. Ulq's blasts were far far far larger than Starrk's blasts.

Originally posted by King Kandy
Ukitake demeaned Lily's blast by saying it was as weak as a Gillian's. Gillians have huge ceros. Obviously, Starrk's were stronger than that.

Slightly true: Sickman said it was a low-level gillian. And, no, the Cero blast is not that strong from a Gillian when compared to even a low-level captain. Ichigo could tank a Cero from Ulq, first form, after his fight with Grimmjow...if that puts things into perspective on how weak Lily was.

Originally posted by King Kandy
False, Aizen did know.

http://manga.bleachexile.com/bleach-chapter-409-page-20.html

He had already planned what was going to happen between Ichigo and Ulquiorra... therefore, he did know about the release. Ulquiorra just didn't think he did.

False, he didn't know.

You are making a baseless claim that directly contradicts the manga.

Ulq said specifically that not even Aizen knew of the second release.

What Aizen was referring to is quite simple: Use Occam's razor.

When Aizen left, he left Ulq in charge, knowing full well that Ichigo was on his way to fight Ulq (sensing the on-comers). That's very simple.

Implying lowly espadas like ulq could keep a secret from Fcking Aizen.

Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix
The power difference between #6 & #4 is incredible. Even if #4 is not in his second form. The difference between #1 & #4 is even greater. His second form won't help him surpass Starrk's capabilities. Starrk's wolves are impervious to physical damage, so they'll certainly do Ulquiorra in, seeing as they managed to hit two Vizards who are likely above Ichigo's Vizard form.

I agree with this...

personally, I think Ulq is stronger than Halibel so I think he should've been the no. 3 espada at most...

Originally posted by dadudemon
False, he didn't know.

You are making a baseless claim that directly contradicts the manga.

Ulq said specifically that not even Aizen knew of the second release.

What Aizen was referring to is quite simple: Use Occam's razor.

When Aizen left, he left Ulq in charge, knowing full well that Ichigo was on his way to fight Ulq (sensing the on-comers). That's very simple.

Ulquiorra is a fallible character, Aizen's word holds much more weight than his does.

He did not just say "And then you fought Ulquiorra," he knew for a fact that Ichigo would achieve a power greater than his Hollow form, and knew its results. And he stated he was above the Espada after Ulquiorra had already been defeated, so yes, Aizen did know of Ulquiorra's second release, and he also knew he was more powerful than that. Keep in mind this was before Aizen became an arrogant whorebag to the extent he is now, he admitted without any hesitation that he would be chanceless in a direct fight with Yamamoto.

I read some of the older bleach volumes today. Seriously, the old chapters had really good art actually.

even in the anime, I preferred the animation on like the first 20 episodes or so, just look at how much Rukia changed...

It was actually great from the beginning of the series and to the end of SS arc.

Originally posted by NemeBro
He said that he planned all of Ichigo's battles from the beginning, and it showed Ulquiorra in his second released form while Aizen directly stated that he achieved a power greater than his normal Hollow state, which he used to best Ulquiorra.

Ulquiorra is a fallible character, Aizen's word holds much more weight than his does.

He did not just say "And then you fought Ulquiorra," he knew for a fact that Ichigo would achieve a power greater than his Hollow form, and knew its results. And he stated he was above the Espada after Ulquiorra had already been defeated, so yes, Aizen did know of Ulquiorra's second release, and he also knew he was more powerful than that. Keep in mind this was before Aizen became an arrogant whorebag to the extent he is now, he admitted without any hesitation that he would be chanceless in a direct fight with Yamamoto.

I'm so very glad you brought that point up. I was hoping someone would take that bait.

Prove that Ulq is a fallible character.

Then Prove that Aizen is not OR is less of a fallible character.

Also, your initial point of the "image" means nothing beyond your own personal interpretation.

Here's what is really happening:

Kubo is showing the readers images of the past to help them remember what is being talked about. Any conclusions that you are drawing from that beyond it helping the reader remember what Aizen was talking about, is simply wrong.

That's reality.

However, here's a very valid point that is every bit as correct as your thoughts on it:

Those were Ichigo's memories flashing into mind as Aizen brought them to his remembrance.

That's every bit as valid as your interpretation. It just so happens that I have evidence that makes my interpretation correct and yours wrong. Aizen never directly or indirectly acknowledged Ulq's second release in any way.

Also, stating he was above the Espada when he had no idea that Ulq. had a second release is a rather fallacious conclusion on your part, isn't it? That's concluding something illogical due to having an false premise.

Also, how do you know that Aizen wasn't commenting on his mastery of the Hogyoku and the powers it grants him rather than directly measuring his powers?

Originally posted by dadudemon
I'm so very glad you brought that point up. I was hoping someone would take that bait.

Prove that Ulq is a fallible character.

The fact that he was killed would pretty much prove that he is a fallible, considering the definition of being fallible is being able to make a mistake. He was not only beaten, but showed surprise at being beaten.

I don't even know what's going on.

Originally posted by RE: Blaxican
The fact that he was killed would pretty much prove that he is a fallible, considering the definition of being fallible is being able to make a mistake. He was not only beaten, but showed surprise at being beaten.

But, Ulq admitted that Ichigo's reiatesu sometimes fluctuated even higher than his, pointing to Ulq indirectly acknowledging that Ichigo could potentially be stronger than he is.

awesome

But if you keep on naming shit off like that, I will DEFINITELY run out of quick comebacks...so cut it out! 😠

Originally posted by amnesia
I don't even know what's going on.

lol

Nerds being nerds.

Anywho, I have been reading Vinland Saga and I'm all the way upt to 45. It's pretty good. It does remind be of Berserk at times, but it is really it's own manga. Not the best, but certainly has good parts.

It's all about taste.

Originally posted by dadudemon
But, Ulq admitted that Ichigo's reiatesu sometimes fluctuated even higher than his, pointing to Ulq indirectly acknowledging that Ichigo could potentially be stronger than he is.

awesome

But if you keep on naming shit off like that, I will DEFINITELY run out of quick comebacks...so cut it out! 😠

Don't worry, your secrets safe with me.

Originally posted by NemeBro
He said that he planned all of Ichigo's battles from the beginning, and it showed Ulquiorra in his second released form while Aizen directly stated that he achieved a power greater than his normal Hollow state, which he used to best Ulquiorra.

I still don't think Aizen knew about Ulquiorra's second release. Unless he really does keep tabs on the espada's release powers, I think Aizen was just referring to Ichigo's change in reiatsu more than anything. It'd be pretty bull if he knew every detail about Ichigo's fights without even being near them.

Off topic: How is it that Stark's aspect of death outranks Barragan's? Loneliness > Old Age? That still doesn't make sense to me: If Espada power levels are ranked in descending order, shouldn't their aspects of death also follow that?

Srsly though. Aizen knew everything. Aizen could see right through Kisuke and Kisuke>>>Ulq

Originally posted by dadudemon
I'm so very glad you brought that point up. I was hoping someone would take that bait.

Prove that Ulq is a fallible character.

Then Prove that Aizen is not OR is less of a fallible character.

Also, your initial point of the "image" means nothing beyond your own personal interpretation.

Here's what is really happening:

Kubo is showing the readers images of the past to help them remember what is being talked about. Any conclusions that you are drawing from that beyond it helping the reader remember what Aizen was talking about, is simply wrong.

That's reality.

However, here's a very valid point that is every bit as correct as your thoughts on it:

Those were Ichigo's memories flashing into mind as Aizen brought them to his remembrance.

That's every bit as valid as your interpretation. It just so happens that I have evidence that makes my interpretation correct and yours wrong. Aizen never directly or indirectly acknowledged Ulq's second release in any way.

Also, stating he was above the Espada when he had no idea that Ulq. had a second release is a rather fallacious conclusion on your part, isn't it? That's concluding something illogical due to having an false premise.

Also, how do you know that Aizen wasn't commenting on his mastery of the Hogyoku and the powers it grants him rather than directly measuring his powers?

Aizen is clearly fallible, as recent chapters show. However, that is pretty much the only instance of his soopah planz truly failing. Aizen has been virtually omniscient for most of the manga (Obviously an overstatement, but he is pretty much supercompetent in his planning), so yes his word holds far more worth than Ulq... Especially considering him commenting that he knows the result of Ichigo's fight proves already that he knows of Ulq's second released, how could he know one without the other?

Please respond to more than my initial point please.

You ignore the point that Aizen was aware of Ichigo transcending his normal Hollow abilities, aka he knew of the H2 release. How could he know of that when he did not know of Ulquiorra's second release, as you so confidently spew as if it were fact?

Aizen not acknowledging Ulquiorra's release means... Well contrary to your belief that it makes you infallibly correct, it only proves one thing, Aizen did not bring it up. Why would he for that matter? Ulq is dead, and is no longer a factor in Aizen's plans.

As for your final point, consider the context of the scene. He killed Harribel out of frustration, because the Espada were all weaker than him. Are you implying that he expected the Espada to be as strong as him with the backing of the Hogyoku? Because why would he expect them to be of the same calibur as what he aspired to? It was clear he was frustrated that he was stronger than them all already, making them useless to him.

Oh, and even Yammy seemed to know of Ulqiorra's second release, why would Aizen not?

Originally posted by dadudemon
False, he didn't know.

You are making a baseless claim that directly contradicts the manga.

Ulq said specifically that not even Aizen knew of the second release.

What Aizen was referring to is quite simple: Use Occam's razor.

When Aizen left, he left Ulq in charge, knowing full well that Ichigo was on his way to fight Ulq (sensing the on-comers). That's very simple.

No, Ulquiorra stated that Aizen had not seen the second release, not that Aizen had not known about his second release. Seeing and knowing are two completely different things, which could simply be shown by how Aizen knew about H2, but never saw it.
Ulquiorra could have very well informed Aizen that he had reached Resurrección Segunda Etapa.
Including Ulquiorra's ideals, it would serve as a further indicator of Aizen's 'trust' in Ulquiorra.

It's not out of line to believe that Aizen already knew about Ulquiorra's second release. Up until before Aizen's first transformation, there wasn't much (if anything) that Aizen was unaware of, especially within Hueco Mundo. The fact that he left Ulquiorra behind to "watch over" Las Nochas makes me believe it even more. He didn't have to leave him there, and the shinigami were trapped with no way of following him. And at that point, he was pretty much done with Los Nochas, it served it's purpose. There was no need to protect it. Leaving Ulquiorra there to fight Ichigo seemed like the most logical thing.