The Official BLEACH series Thread

Originally posted by jltruth
Stark>>>Ulq....only bec no one knew about his second transformation....he's the only espada with a 2nd form that gives him a power boost

The power difference between #6 & #4 is incredible. Even if #4 is not in his second form. The difference between #1 & #4 is even greater. His second form won't help him surpass Starrk's capabilities. Starrk's wolves are impervious to physical damage, so they'll certainly do Ulquiorra in, seeing as they managed to hit two Vizards who are likely above Ichigo's Vizard form.

Originally posted by dadudemon
Cause his ninja way...I mean shinigami way is to never back down, always fight for his loved ones and for what is right, etc. He's like naruto....I mean forest gump except smarter.

Also, it's because he is so powerful at such a young age: defiantely becoming uber powerful in about a year that even after a thousands years, the most arrogant and powerful of the shinigami, could not reach.

I didn't like the Soul Society's arrogant rule attitude so it was nice to see Ichigo basically take a crap all over everything.

Also, the fact the Ichigo gets the best power ups, cool scenes, etc.

If you don't like Ichigo, then you are not being manipulated by Kubo, properly.

Ichigo was cool in the pre-SS arcs and the SS arcs. Lately, he's been a major disappointment, but thanks to his father, Gin (you better believe it 😛), and Tensa Zangetsu, he's alright I guess.

Relatively speaking, he's something of a badass as well, seeing how easily he's pwning Aizen and not taking any shit from him.

He jumped up from being toyed with by Gin to being able to rape Aizen at his most powerful.

Is that really cool to you? 😬

The plot could have been resolved the moment Isshin found out Ichigo was a Shinigami, if he taught him to do that immediately, there would have been no need for an arc after the SS arc, he could have steamrolled through the other captains and then killed Aizen at the end.

Turns out Aizen is Ichigo from the future!! ZAWOOM!

Originally posted by NemeBro
He jumped up from being toyed with by Gin to being able to rape Aizen at his most powerful.

Is that really cool to you? 😬

The plot could have been resolved the moment Isshin found out Ichigo was a Shinigami, if he taught him to do that immediately, there would have been no need for an arc after the SS arc, he could have steamrolled through the other captains and then killed Aizen at the end.

I'm not talking about his as-of-yet retarded ass-pulled power increase.

I'm talking about the way he's dealing with Aizen. Aizen's typical bull-shit isn't affecting him and Ichigo's not f***ing around as he normally would with an opponent.

I hope they kill eachother and the captains get their own series. The fans wouldn't mind seeing as captain Shota is more popular than Ichigo.

Originally posted by dadudemon
What you stated is correct.

However...

That has nothing to do with what you stated and with what I replied with.

That's actually pretty cool...but now bridge the gap from what you said above and what I said in my last reply. If you can do that, you'll have a believer out of me.

Ichigo was definitely mid-tier as Baldy was already very low tier captain level. Ichigo also beat a captain that could beat two captains at once...so by the end, he was upper mid-tier to high tier. pwned. 🙂

See, that's the problem: you're wrong.

Kuchiki is high tier: one of the strongest, fatest, and high proficiency kidou users. (Databook agrees with that, as well.)

When Ichigo went hollow mask, he started wiping the floor with Kuchiki. 🙂

It sure is.

By destruction feats, currently, second release Ulq and H2 Ichigo are the strongest characters in Bleach, thus far, by far. 😐

Check this out: all fire/attacks released from Yamamoto's Zanpakutou would have destroyed an area a bit larger than Kakura town.

Do you understand that? A bit larger...

The destruction feats by Ulq and H2 Ichigo are much greater than all the attacks Yamamoto's Zanpakutou ever released and their attacks were single release attacks, not all the attacks they've ever produced ever.

Now do you understand where you've misinterpretted events?

Not even close.

Shunsui would be an ant compared to H2 Ichigo. He wouldn't even register as a threat. Second release Ulq and H2 ichigo are on such higher power levels that a comparison to any Soul Society captain is a bit absurd.

Okay, while baseless, you are now indicating that H2 Ichigo and second release Ulq were Vasto Lorde. You do know that VL levels are stronger than captains, right? So you just admitted to being wrong, indirectly.

To you second point, you really missed the point of what I was talking about, by far. My point was NOT how strong Ichigo was, but how strong he should have been, had Kubo kept power-scaling in proper order.

LOL, you have this thing for Yamamoto, obviously.

To think that Aizen and Ichigo are anywhere near Yamamoto is rediculous, but to say that Ichigo is beneath Yamamoto, at this point, is hilarious.

First of all the Espada from Ulq down are VL it's been stated by Kubo himself. Which makes it true.

Second of all Ikkaku didn't even use his Bankai which hinders him to VC level most of the time. So saying that is beyond pointless.

Ichigo had help from Zangetsu only reason he even beat Kenpachi, why you don't understand this I have no idea. Which is where the PIS comes into play there.

The fact that you just called Byakuya a high tier captain is also where you're mistaken. He's not. Not even close. He's mid-tier maybe a bit higher than mid, but not high. Also once again in their fight he didn't even use all his abilities or go all out like Ichigo did. Byakuya was being to arrogant.

So now you rate characters by destruction feats? Really? That's pretty weird... and well foolish.

And you're joking about Yama Jii's attacks not being more powerful. His kido spell was so powerful he had to make sure the captains were all ****ing incaped. Lanzo nor H2's Cero has that destructive capability. They're massive yes, but not that massive.

And finally to honestly think that the seniors, especially Shunsui, and Yama-Jii couldn't beat H2 when H2 was there is just absurd. Just plainly absurd. Ulq's second form was not higher than Stark. Not in the least. I know you're not, but that's just fanboy talk.

As of right now since the last issue... It's still debatable if Ichigo is even above senior level. He still doesn't touch Yama Jii. You can say oh but hes going to be Aizen. Okay of course he is. He's the main character. Gin literally beat Aizen if not for the Hog, he would of been done. Gin is no where near Yama Jii. You gotta use logic.

Aizen even ADMITTED Yama was more powerful than him. Which is why he even created WW to begin with.

Originally posted by Kaibs
Gin literally beat Aizen if not for the Hog, he would of been done. Gin is no where near Yama Jii. You gotta use logic.

Aizen even ADMITTED Yama was more powerful than him. Which is why he even created WW to begin with.

Gin did not beat Aizen. He cheap-shotted him. It wasn't even a fight.

That was said when Aizen was still a Shinigami with the Hogyoku embedded in his chest. Once Aizen took control of the Hogyoku, he transformed into his Chrysallis form. That form pwned Urahara, Isshin & Yuroichi, who are all likely at Shunsui's level. Then, he transforms into another form that was able to destroy something no other Shinigami could touch. That was done when Aizen just collided with it. His current form, is implied to be vastly more powerful than any of his other forms.

I think it's pretty safe to say that Current Aizen is stronger than Yamamoto. Given that Ichigo's pwning him easily, Ichigo is as well, at least from a physical stat standpoint.

Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix
Gin did not beat Aizen. He cheap-shotted him. It wasn't even a fight.

That was said when Aizen was still a Shinigami with the Hogyoku embedded in his chest. Once Aizen took control of the Hogyoku, he transformed into his Chrysallis form. That form pwned Urahara, Isshin & Yuroichi, who are all likely at Shunsui's level. Then, he transforms into another form that was able to destroy something no other Shinigami could touch. That was done when Aizen just collided with it. His current form, is implied to be vastly more powerful than any of his other forms.

I think it's pretty safe to say that Current Aizen is stronger than Yamamoto. Given that Ichigo's pwning him easily, Ichigo is as well, at least from a physical stat standpoint.

Gin did beat Aizen though. Even if it was cheap as shit lol.

Anyways, As of right now I Ichigo probably is stronger. Kubo screwed a lot of things up since FKT.

Although it looks like Aizen is finally going to die, unless he gets another power up which wouldn't surprise me at all as there's probably going to be 100 decide chapters before Kubo looks up a new word to put in it's place.

Does anyone else find it funny that Aizen has yet to use his shikai or any reality warping power from the Hogyoku? Aizen normally likes to oneshot people so this is kind of weird. I also find it funny that Ichigo has yet to deactivate hs bankai since his fight with Grimmjow.

Current Aizen and Current Ichigo should be the strongest people in the series if all of the crap Aizen spout is correct. Even though I'm no longer losing respect for Ichigo, I doubt many people will hold him in high regard for a while.

Originally posted by wakkawakkawakka
Does anyone else find it funny that Aizen has yet to use his shikai or any reality warping power from the Hogyoku? Aizen normally likes to oneshot people so this is kind of weird. I also find it funny that Ichigo has yet to deactivate hs bankai since his fight with Grimmjow.

Current Aizen and Current Ichigo should be the strongest people in the series if all of the crap Aizen spout is correct. Even though I'm no longer losing respect for Ichigo, I doubt many people will hold him in high regard for a while.

Ichigos plot armor>Aizen's shikai

In a couple of chapters Aizen is going to perform bankai.

Originally posted by Kaibs
First of all the Espada from Ulq down are VL it's been stated by Kubo himself. Which makes it true.

O rly?

Sources for that?

Also, it only hinders your point.

Originally posted by Kaibs
Second of all Ikkaku didn't even use his Bankai which hinders him to VC level most of the time. So saying that is beyond pointless.

O rly?

So lemme get this straight: everyone that uses just their shikai, regardless of whether or not they have bankai, are reduced to just VC level?

Originally posted by Kaibs
Ichigo had help from Zangetsu only reason he even beat Kenpachi, why you don't understand this I have no idea. Which is where the PIS comes into play there.

Right, so properly using your zanpakutou now all of a sudden is a "power-boost" and "cheating", huh?

Also, Ichigo seemed to match Kenpachi's raw power and THEN some because he cut through Kenpachi's sword. A zanpakutou is part of the Shinigami's soul and power.

Why you didn't know this, I have no idea.

Originally posted by Kaibs
The fact that you just called Byakuya a high tier captain is also where you're mistaken. He's not. Not even close. He's mid-tier maybe a bit higher than mid, but not high. Also once again in their fight he didn't even use all his abilities or go all out like Ichigo did. Byakuya was being to arrogant.

You're wrong on every last point you made, here. Seriously, not one thing you said was correct.

He is with his great number of feats throughout the anime. There's also the OFFICIAL databook which puts him among the strongest. 😬

No, he went all out in his fight with Ichigo. He used Senkai against Ichigo and he said directly to Ichigo, "You are the second person to see this."

http://www.bleachanime.org/manga/Bleach-Chapter-164/164-12.jpg.php

We do we know about Senkai?

I quote, "This technique discards my defense, and scacrifices everything to kill the enemy."

That's going all out.

Of those that can use Kidou, Kuchiki has been shown using higher than all but 4 people: Aizen, Kidou Corps Captain and Vice captain, and Urahara. He did it effortlessly, each time, as well.

Originally posted by Kaibs
So now you rate characters by destruction feats? Really? That's pretty weird... and well foolish.

No, that's pretty normal, and, well, proper.

Speed is debatable there is no way to properly compare unless the two fighters fough each other and/or others being compared.

Also, it's a really bad logical fallacy on your part to not see why a blast that is extremely large, is not a way to measure how powerful a BLEACH character is. If I can, in slightly less than a second, create a 5 KM destructive blast (circular), in front of me, you'd have to be able to cover a 5KM distance in an instant in order to reach me or evade 2.5 miles to avoid it (radius of the blast).

Originally posted by Kaibs
And you're joking about Yama Jii's attacks not being more powerful. His kido spell was so powerful he had to make sure the captains were all ****ing incaped. Lanzo nor H2's Cero has that destructive capability. They're massive yes, but not that massive.

Please show me where I said Yamamoto's attacks were not powerful, please.

Also, no, not even close. By destruction feats, H2 Ichigo and 2nd Release Ulq are far more powerful. the area of destruction was far greater from those two. This is not debatable.

Originally posted by Kaibs
And finally to honestly think that the seniors, especially Shunsui, and Yama-Jii couldn't beat H2 when H2 was there is just absurd. Just plainly absurd. Ulq's second form was not higher than Stark. Not in the least. I know you're not, but that's just fanboy talk.

Incorrect.

Ulq in first form was stronger than captain-level. Makes sense because Ichigo beat a high-level captain in his bankai form but could not beat Ulq, even after his Vizard powerup. No captain can hold a candle to Ulq's second release form. Starrk's cero's do not compare to Ulq's in power. 1000 don't equal one of Ulq's in his second form. It's rather simple destruction feats.

What's fanboy talk is ignoring what actually occured and pretending that one character is more powerful than another while ignoring what actually occured.

Originally posted by Kaibs
As of right now since the last issue... It's still debatable if Ichigo is even above senior level. He still doesn't touch Yama Jii. You can say oh but hes going to be Aizen. Okay of course he is. He's the main character. Gin literally beat Aizen if not for the Hog, he would of been done. Gin is no where near Yama Jii. You gotta use logic. .

It's debatable if Ichigo is above senior level, huh?

I literally laughed out loud.

Aizen pwned several mid-tier and high-tier captains, at once. Urahara is up there with Yamamoto and Aizen, easily.

Ichigo's father is stronger than every other captain out there barring Yamamoto.

Originally posted by Kaibs
Aizen even ADMITTED Yama was more powerful than him. Which is why he even created WW to begin with.

True, but no we are off track and the original points are now being lost.

Originally posted by dadudemon
Incorrect.

Ulq in first form was stronger than captain-level. Makes sense because Ichigo beat a high-level captain in his bankai form but could not beat Ulq, even after his Vizard powerup. No captain can hold a candle to Ulq's second release form. Starrk's cero's do not compare to Ulq's in power. 1000 don't equal one of Ulq's in his second form. It's rather simple destruction feats.

What's fanboy talk is ignoring what actually occured and pretending that one character is more powerful than another while ignoring what actually occured.

Yama is much stronger than H2 Ichigo and Ulquiorra. Aizen said he was stronger than any of the Espada, and he DID know of Ulq's second release because that was why he arranged him to fight Ichigo. However, Yama could have defeated him only with Shikai, god knows what his Bankai might have done.

idk if yama is stronger than h2 ichigo, h2 completely overwhelmed Ulq, there is no way to tell exactly how powerfu h2 is, because the only person he fought was nothing in comparison to him.

Well yeah I suppose that's technically true, but Aizen knew that H2 Ichigo was no threat to him so I think it still holds.

When did he say that he was no match? I don't remember reading that.

Originally posted by Kaibs
Gin did beat Aizen though. Even if it was cheap as shit lol.

Anyways, As of right now I Ichigo probably is stronger. Kubo screwed a lot of things up since FKT.

Although it looks like Aizen is finally going to die, unless he gets another power up which wouldn't surprise me at all as there's probably going to be 100 decide chapters before Kubo looks up a new word to put in it's place.

Gin never beat Aizen because it wasn't a fight at all. Gin outsmarted Aizen, and pwned him via a cheap-shot.

Indeed.

They both are going to receive power-ups. Or rather, they'll show us newer and more powerful abilities. Aizen has yet to use his Shikai or any other ability he might have, barring that teleportation of his.

Originally posted by menokokoro
im not saying you are wrong, but, just size of an explosion does not show its strength, especially with bleach.

No, that's exactly what it shows, in Bleach. Kubo has consistantly shown us how strong each character was by the size of their destruction feats.

Just to name a few:

The Reiatsu from Ichigo and Kenpachi was quite a large area when they clashed. It was destroying buildings 2 or 3 city blocks around them.

Ichigo's and Kuchiki's reiatsu was larger than the cliff that they were fighting on: showing an even larger "power" area than the fight with Kenpachi.

The Kidu attack from Mr. Tall Perv against Aizen as he was leaving. Aizen blocked it, sure, but the explosion that resulted was huge.

The energies from H2 Ichigo and Ulq were many many many times larger than the Kuchiki fight as Los Noches is absurdly huge. (They ran for what seemed like days and it did not get any larger.) Nothing is even close to both of those characters destruction feats: nothing.

That's a pretty linear power progression and it's quite easy to tell what Kubo is trying to do: convey to the reader how powerful these guys are getting. I suspect that we will have energies that are even larger than the ones seen on top of Los Noches.

Originally posted by menokokoro
Starks attacks may very well have been concentrated into a smaller package, but were just as powerful or more powerful. also, the captains that ichigo beat also got much more powerful since he beat them, as evident by no 5 beating the crap out of ichigo, then kenpachi saving the day. however, Ulq was more powerful than kenpachi, so...yeah.

I would agree with that if it weren't for the fact that there is no instance of energies being concentrated into smaller packages, in Bleach. There is no reference, hint, or implication that they are concentrated. In fact, we might even have evidence that they are weak shots because Lily's blasts were so weak that Sickman was able to stop it with his bare hands...and Lily comprises the guns. On top of that, we have proof from the manga that the more powerful the blast, the larger the cero.

Evidence: Menos Grande's cero's were much larger/thicker than Lily's blasts and Starrk's blasts. Ulq's blasts were far far far larger than Starrk's blasts.

Also, there is no evidence that Aizen was aware of Ulq's second release. Aizen only claimed to have put Ichigo up against Ulq, never did he claim to know about his second release.

Originally posted by King Kandy
Yama is much stronger than H2 Ichigo and Ulquiorra. Aizen said he was stronger than any of the Espada, and he DID know of Ulq's second release because that was why he arranged him to fight Ichigo. However, Yama could have defeated him only with Shikai, god knows what his Bankai might have done.

Incorrect on all accounts.

Aizen did not know of Ulq's second release. There is no evidence than Yamamoto would have been able to defeat Ulq. Going by feats, Ulq would defeat Yamamoto. We haven't seen Yamamoto's bankai, nor will we ever. (I have no idea how Orihime will bring him back to life after he blew himself up.)

Originally posted by dadudemon
Incorrect on all accounts.

Aizen did not know of Ulq's second release. There is no evidence than Yamamoto would have been able to defeat Ulq. Going by feats, Ulq would defeat Yamamoto. We haven't seen Yamamoto's bankai, nor will we ever. (I have no idea how Orihime will bring him back to life after he blew himself up.)

http://manga.bleachexile.com/bleach-chapter-409-page-20.html

He had already planned what was going to happen between Ichigo and Ulquiorra... therefore, he did know about the release. Ulquiorra just didn't think he did.