Originally posted by RE: Blaxican
Provide some evidence for your claim and quit pussy footing around, you degenerate narwhal.
You claim a position contrary to mine. You should be able to provide evidence as well to prove that contrary position. Don't dodge. I already said I was lazy and don't give a ****. If you care so much about it, you prove the contrary position.
You claim mundane to poor intelligence in your post. You prove it.
Originally posted by RE: Blaxican
And no, I'm not playing "hurr impressive is all relative" with you either. Geeze.
It IS relative. Relative to the characters we are discussing in BLEACH. We cannot venture outside of Bleach...but even that is relative. Every single comparison, as a complete necessity, HAS to be relative. That's the very nature of a comparison.
Originally posted by dadudemonI'm a lazy **** as well, but the difference between the two of us is that I have the luxury of not having the burden of proof fall on me. The burden of proof is on you since you made the initial claim. You can choose to not provide any evidence due to your laziness, which is fine, but just because you're too lazy to do so does not mean the burden falls to me. If you neglect to substantiate your claim, you look like you're dodging. Considering the circumstances, if I neglect to substantiate my claim, it's justified, because why I should do so if you won't? Furthermore, as my English comrade stated above, you warped my statement around.
[B]You claim a position contrary to mine. You should be able to provide evidence as well to prove that contrary position. Don't dodge. I already said I was lazy and don't give a ****. If you care so much about it, you prove the contrary position.You claim mundane to poor intelligence in your post. You prove it.
It IS relative. Relative to the characters we are discussing in BLEACH. We cannot venture outside of Bleach...but even that is relative. Every single comparison, as a complete necessity, HAS to be relative. That's the very nature of a comparison.The idea that it has to be restricted to Bleach is retarded. That's called "implied ability". Winning the special Olympics does not make you a competent individual, unless it is agreed upon at the beginning of the comparison that the criteria is restricted to the other participants in the Olympics.
Originally posted by Nephthys
Actually DDM, you claimed that Ulq was intelligent, so you should be the one providing evidence.
That's if I wanted to prove his intelligence.
Blaxican ALSO claimed that Ulq did nothing to show intelligence. Then he can equally provide evidence that shows his mundane intelligence or even stupidity, quite easily.
Originally posted by Nephthys
All Blax did was state that there [b]isn't anything indicating exceptional intellect, so in fact the absence of evidence is all the proof he needs. [/B]
No, that's not correct. He is claiming a position of mundane-ness or stupidity as a consequence of his contrarian position. This is a relative comparison in Bleach, of course. We can't venture outside of Bleach for this example lest we invoke gods from other manga.
He is making a positive claim that Ulq is average or below average in his intelligence (nothing remarkable). If he wants to prove that, he can. I'm all "ears". 🙂
Originally posted by RE: Blaxican
I'm a lazy **** as well, but the difference between the two of us is that I have the luxury of not having the burden of proof fall on me. The burden of proof is on you since you made the initial claim. You can choose to not provide any evidence due to your laziness, which is fine, but just because you're too lazy to do so does not mean the burden falls to me. If you neglect to substantiate your claim, you look like you're dodging. Considering the circumstances, if I neglect to substantiate my claim, it's justified, because why I should do so if you won't? Furthermore, as my English comrade stated above, you warped my statement around.The idea that it has to be restricted to Bleach is retarded. That's called "implied ability". Winning the special Olympics does not make you a competent individual, unless it is agreed upon at the beginning of the comparison that the criteria is restricted to the other participants in the Olympics.
I pwned this line of reasoning (both of them because I just read your second paragraph). It is the line of reasoning those use to dodge when they want to be contrarians but do not realize they are making asserations of their own.
The burden of proof is on you to also prove your position since you have taken a contrary position. This is not he same as saying, "God does not exist" vs. "God exists". This is, "Ulq's brain intelligence feats are not very remarkable" vs. "Ulq's brain feats are remarkable".
Both of us have made positive claims. Both of us would have to prove our positions.
I would rather you scour dozens to hundreds of chapters to prove your point than I. Because I don't feel like spending that much time to prove an obvious point that you think is un-obvious.
Originally posted by RE: Blaxican
And my point is that the people reading this go-between are thinking that you're attempting to dodge by distracting us with elaborate shit, whereas I'm just pointing that out.
And my point is that you're falling into your own trap of "the burden of proof is on you" when it is just as equally upon you as me. You made a positive (logic not "complimentary"(check the spelling of this word: I spelled it that way on purpose)) claim about Ulq's abilities. So did I.
I can ask for proof of your position as equally as you can ask for mine. I declared "lazy" first, so you be my guest on proving your position if you're that interested.
Originally posted by dadudemon
Blaxican ALSO claimed that Ulq did nothing to show intelligence.
Exactly. So what do you want him to do? Prove nothing? Do you want him to post the entirity of Ulqs time on the page with explanations as to why none of it proves intelligence? Seriously, how the hell can he provide evidence of nothing?!
And he wouldn't need to anyway because as he pointed out a) burden of proof is on you and b) its hugely hypocritical of you to demand that he provide evidence while not doing so yourself due to sloth and c) the absence of proof is all the proof he needs.
Originally posted by dadudemonYou be my guest and stop hiding behind laziness as an excuse to not substantiate your assertion, so we can stop assuming you're dodging.
And my point is that you're falling into your own trap of "the burden of proof is on you" when it is just as equally upon you as me. You made a positive (logic not "complimentary"(check the spelling of this word: I spelled it that way on purpose)) claim about Ulq's abilities. So did I.I can ask for proof of your position as equally as you can ask for mine. I declared "lazy" first, so you be my guest on proving your position if you're that interested.
Originally posted by RE: Blaxican
You be my guest and stop hiding behind laziness as an excuse to not substantiate your assertion, so we can stop assuming you're dodging.
You be my guest and stop hiding behind laziness and your false sense of "burden of proof" as an excuse to not substantiate your assertion, so I can see you stop dodging.
Originally posted by Nephthys
Exactly. So what do you want him to do? Prove nothing? Do you want him to post the entirity of Ulqs time on the page with explanations as to why none of it proves intelligence? Seriously, how the hell can he provide evidence [b]of nothing?!And he wouldn't need to anyway because as he pointed out a) burden of proof is on you and b) its hugely hypocritical of you to demand that he provide evidence while not doing so yourself due to sloth and c) the absence of proof is all the proof he needs. [/B]
Nice try. But read my post again.
Then you'll realize you made two paragraphs on just one sentence that missed my entire point and instead, mistakes the context of those words entirely just so you could pretend my point fit your false criteria for your point.
Also, I'll note that I never demanded proof. 🙂 Go back and read my posts. 🙂
Edit - How about this. A new approach for all three of you.
What about Ulq makes you think he was average in intelligence? What do you think he did, thought, or said, that show his intelligence as being average to below average for all characters in Bleach?
If any of you three provide a decent answer, I will spend the 5 hours required to find evidence of my position of good intelligence. I think my position is obvious and only people trolling because they are bored would claim positions contrary. I can already think of 3 thinks Ulq did that put his intelligence pretty fair up there as far as Bleach characters go. Yet, you guys can only think of mundane things he did? Something tells me none of you are being honest but seek only to troll because you're bored.
An example of a way to prove your positions: "Starrk did x in a similar position as Ulq. Ulq did y. Starrks' was clearly more intelligent." Or, "Ulq observed x in this situation. Ukitake observed y in the same position but did so more quickly or with much better insight."
Go ahead, be my guest. After you convince me that you're serious about this discussion and not just being trolls, I will definitely spend the long ass time required to show you why you all know you are just trolling.
That, or you could just google search all the arguments that have already been done for why Ulq is a fairly smart character by Bleach standards. 😬
Originally posted by dadudemonWell, I don't really care if you think I'm dodging. And I know you know that. In fact, you made that statement anticipating my apathetic response, because saying I don't care what you think would justify you saying that that you don't care what we think in your reply to this post. Of course, now that I've pointed that out for everyone to see, you might be inclined to claim that I'm wrong and that's not what why you said that, and that's not the direction you wanted this discussion to go toward. Wither you deny it or not, though, I'm on to you bra, and the commentary made by those who are reading our posts will show that they are too.
so [b]I can see you stop dodging. [/B]
But don't misunderstand my intentions here; I'm not trying to attack you or even make you look bad, or something malicious like that. I'm just sayin'. Kind of like how Jean-Claude, who is walking along next to Billy-Bob, and who sees Billy-Bob step in dog shit, and he says "Hey Billy-Bob, you've stepped in dog shit", because Billy-Bob might not be aware that he stepped in dog shit. In that same manner, I'm just letting you know that to us outside observers, it looks like you made a claim, and are neglecting to substantiate it because you can't, not because you don't want too, and the fact that that's what most of us are thinking will be proven by the fact that the majority of people who comment on this discussion will do so in my favor, not yours. You might not know that, or maybe you do and just don't care, but either way, I'm just letting you know. You know?
I really can't recall Ulquiorra doing anything that made me think of him in the same light as people like Ishida, Mayuri, Kisuke or Szayel. Ulq was clearly the most conscious thinker and level-headed among the Espada, but based on actions i wouldn't put him in the same category as the 4 i mentioned.
Originally posted by RE: Blaxican
Well, I don't really care if you think I'm dodging. And I know you know that. In fact, you made that statement anticipating my apathetic response, because saying I don't care what you think would justify you saying that that you don't care what we think in your reply to this post. Of course, now that I've pointed that out for everyone to see, you might be inclined to claim that I'm wrong and that's not what why you said that, and that's not the direction you wanted this discussion to go toward. Wither you deny it or not, though, I'm on to you bra, and the commentary made by those who are reading our posts will show that they are too.But don't misunderstand my intentions here; I'm not trying to attack you or even make you look bad, or something malicious like that. I'm just sayin'. Kind of like how Jean-Claude, who is walking along next to Billy-Bob, and who sees Billy-Bob step in dog shit, and he says "Hey Billy-Bob, you've stepped in dog shit", because Billy-Bob might not be aware that he stepped in dog shit. In that same manner, I'm just letting you know that to us outside observers, it looks like you made a claim, and are neglecting to substantiate it because you can't, not because you don't want too, and the fact that that's what most of us are thinking will be proven by the fact that the majority of people who comment on this discussion will do so in my favor, not yours. You might not know that, or maybe you do and just don't care, but either way, I'm just letting you know. You know?
tl:dr
You have convinced me with your examples of Ulq's feats that he passes as average for intelligence, at best. I appreciate your well thought out arguments.
Now wouldn't that be a much nicer statement if it wasn't sarcastic but sincere? You have witnessed first hand that I can swallow my pride and admit as such. I even gave you an exact formula to accomplish that task, but you ignored and typed up a really long diatribe that I didn't even read (I lie...I read the first sentence and stopped).
Try again.
If you don't want to convince me but instead want to waste time, just say so in the next post. If you're genuine, convince me.
Otherwise, I will continue to believe, based on actual on-panel evidence, that Ulq is one of the smarter characters in Bleach.
Originally posted by RE: Blaxican
The dog shit's there, bro. No love lost though. We are still bros, right?
No. You have forever tainted my opinion of you. You parroted my reasons for not wanting to spend five hours looking for scans and then you hypocritically demanded burden of proof. You are forever relegated to the position of "troll" and "bored poster that does not care about having meaningful discussions."
😖hifty:
Lol
Originally posted by RE: Blaxican
Care about what? What is it that you think I care about? Try to restrict your answer here to one sentence please, for the sake of clarity.Only if you ignore definitions. Trolling: To say something with the intention of eliciting a specific response from someone. Being an *******: To say something with zero regard for wither or not it hurts someone's feelings.
To say they're the same thing, would be the equivalent of saying that a man willingly driving his car at 100 miles an hour down a suburb street and accidentally hitting a small child, is the same as driving your car at 100 miles an hour down a suburb street, seeing a child, and swerving into them with the intention of splattering them across the pavement.
The former is an accident that arose due to negligence; he was aware that driving at that speed was both illegal and potentially life threatening, but chose to do it anyway. The latter is specific intent. In a court of law, the man would get 2 years in prison for the former, and at least 10 years for the latter. Do you want to try to contest me on this? It's apart of my job to be aware of the massive differences between "murder" and "criminal negligence". The same thing applies here. So no, trying to offend someone, and saying something and not really caring if its offensive or not, are not, objectively, the same thing.
And for the record, please don't try to paint yourself as the victim here. I made that kitchen comment in response to you saying that my face looked like an ass, as you seem to have forgotten...
You hit back just as hard as you get it. That's one of the reasons why I like talking to you, but it also means you're hardly a victim, here.