Originally posted by Whirlysplatt
The Universe will always be his "creation" 🙂 Regardless of who "owns" or writes Marvel. He is its sole living creator 🙂 Therefore if he says it has a real God it does 🙂 Unlike GS or Phoenix he is the creator force.
Then Marvel's Universe is different from Stan Lee's Universe.
And as we're discussing events that seem to disagree with his universe we are not talking about Lee's Universe, but the carbon copy of his universe the way that Marvel has it now.
Originally posted by leonheartmm
hmmm, my bad, but did it ever occur to u that i wouldnt shoot my mouth off and say that there was no mention of toaa or pheonix positively being the creater of the multiverse and having the power of TOAA,, WITHOUT READING THE DAMN COMICS?! lol, im not that stupid, it is precisely because i have read the comics that im saying that all your doing is making ridiculous interpretations of a few sentences while avoiding all the proof to the contrary, there was no mention of toaa, or the multiverse, only of CREATION,which has been repeated many times from the simplest of abstracts to the living tribunal to the infinite being and the beyonders, onto the heart of the universe AND finally to TOAA who incidently hasnt EVER ben mentioned directly by name in the marvel universe, so then tell me, how likely is it that the pheonix got the powers of creation nearly EQUAL to TOAA and not equal to eternity? or perhaps even the tribunal?
I don't know much about LT, but isn't he something like a regulating force for the omniverse, third only to HOTU and TOAA?
Phoenix is definitly a regulative and creative force with access(the White Hot Room) to the omniverse herself. It even seems, that one is safe from the creation shattering results of "House of M" in the Phoenixforces White Hot Room.
So it's rather safe to say, Phoenix(full powered) is surely on par with LT.
She is taking advise and orders from something superior.
Since the only entities superior to LT(to my knowledge) are HOTU and TOAA and HOTU is not conscious, we can assume, that Phoenix is taking her orders from TOAA.
Originally posted by leonheartmm
"It was Eternitys words that phoenixs role is the natural order of a universe. Wouldnt that suggest to you that the process hapens in all universes."were they now, ive never heard them but i will take ur word for it, however you have unintentionally mentioned the biggest flaw in ur own debate, if indeed it is true that the pheonix is the creater of a UNIVERSE as eternity said so, and that it is logical to believe that just like eternity and death, there is a phenix IN EVERY UNIVERSE, than THAT MAKES THE PHEONIX NUTHING MORE THAN A VERY POWERFUL UNIVERSAL ENTITIES, and NOT MULTIVERSAL, just like the abstracts who are universal but have counterparts in every universe, so now everything fits in, the pheonix is the creater and destroyer of a single universe, nuthing more, nuthing less, {and this actually matches up with the factual data} and is a universal entity which is probably on entropy power level below the infinite gauntlett, {she could be slightly higher but i doubt it, seeing as she is only as powerful or slightly more than entropy now that all the pieces fix} so that also means that she is quite a bit below the tribunal and the heart of the universe AND IS DEFINATELY NOT gettin its power from toaa. so there you go. your whole old argument goes down the drain im afraid.
My point is the phoenix force is a multiversal power responsible for the creation of the multiverse and is second only to the supreme being as it is its creation aspect. Jean as Phoenix of the white crown an avatar who taps into that power has a special relationship with the force and was shown to have power enough to give Stranger dominance over LT and creation by speeding up the cycle of creation. The fact that the Stranger was shown as being able to do that just through Jean shows you the level of her power and its range.Thats all that matters really. Dont confuse power with purpose youngster. The M'kraan crystal is a multiversal reset switch when it was damaged it was affecting the entire multiverse. It was Jean and only Jean who had the power to rectify this. The Phoenix force as a creation aspect i ssecond only to the supreme being. The avatars are peers of LT being responsible for the creation, maintenance and end of the multiverse. As avatars they become multiversal beings who exist outside of creation.
Originally posted by Whirlysplatt
The Universe will always be his "creation" 🙂 Regardless of who "owns" or writes Marvel. He is its sole living creator 🙂 Therefore if he says it has a real God it does 🙂 Unlike GS or Phoenix he is the creator force.
Back under your bridge until you learn to be objective 😉
Again
Originally posted by leonheartmm
hmmm, my bad, but did it ever occur to u that i wouldnt shoot my mouth off and say that there was no mention of toaa or pheonix positively being the creater of the multiverse and having the power of TOAA,, WITHOUT READING THE DAMN COMICS?! lol, im not that stupid, it is precisely because i have read the comics that im saying that all your doing is making ridiculous interpretations of a few sentences while avoiding all the proof to the contrary, there was no mention of toaa, or the multiverse, only of CREATION,which has been repeated many times from the simplest of abstracts to the living tribunal to the infinite being and the beyonders, onto the heart of the universe AND finally to TOAA who incidently hasnt EVER ben mentioned directly by name in the marvel universe, so then tell me, how likely is it that the pheonix got the powers of creation nearly EQUAL to TOAA and not equal to eternity? or perhaps even the tribunal?
I don't know much about LT, but isn't he something like a regulating force for the omniverse, third only to HOTU and TOAA?
Phoenix is definitly a regulative and creative force with access(the White Hot Room) to the omniverse herself. It even seems, that one is safe from the creation shattering results of "House of M" in the Phoenixforces White Hot Room.
So it's rather safe to say, Phoenix(full powered) is surely on par with LT.
She is taking advise and orders from something superior.
Since the only entities superior to LT(to my knowledge) are HOTU and TOAA and HOTU is not conscious, we can assume, that Phoenix is taking her orders from TOAA.
Originally posted by wannabe
AgainIsn't it fact, that Eternity is personification of universe 616...the universe Phoenix recreated?
Isn't it logical to AT LEAST take it from this, that Phoenixes power of creation is superior to that of Eternity?!I don't know much about LT, but isn't he something like a regulating force for the omniverse, third only to HOTU and TOAA?
Phoenix is definitly a regulative and creative force with access(the White Hot Room) to the omniverse herself. It even seems, that one is safe from the creation shattering results of "House of M" in the Phoenixforces White Hot Room.
So it's rather safe to say, Phoenix(full powered) is surely on par with LT.
She is taking advise and orders from something superior.
Since the only entities superior to LT(to my knowledge) are HOTU and TOAA and HOTU is not conscious, we can assume, that Phoenix is taking her orders from TOAA.
The HOTU is an entity hmmmmmmm........is it? 😕 🙂
The White hot room is in the Crystal which is where 🙂 I see a paradox coming on with this line of thinking..............Which is hardly suprising where Phoenix is concerned 🙂
Originally posted by GalacticStorm
My point is the phoenix force is a multiversal power responsible for the creation of the multiverse and is second only to the supreme being as it is its creation aspect. Jean as Phoenix of the white crown an avatar who taps into that power has a special relationship with the force and was shown to have power enough to give Stranger dominance over LT and creation by speeding up the cycle of creation. The fact that the Stranger was shown as being able to do that just through Jean shows you the level of her power and its range.Thats all that matters really. Dont confuse power with purpose youngster. The M'kraan crystal is a multiversal reset switch when it was damaged it was affecting the entire multiverse. It was Jean and only Jean who had the power to rectify this. The Phoenix force as a creation aspect i ssecond only to the supreme being. The avatars are peers of LT being responsible for the creation, maintenance and end of the multiverse. As avatars they become multiversal beings who exist outside of creation.
none of the things you mentioned ranging from pheonix having SHOWN greater dominance than the tribunal or speeding the cycle of creation to the mkraan crystal beeing the reset switch of the entire multiverse and including all the crap about jean and only ean having the power to rectify the crystal, the PF being second to toaa to the avatars existing out of creation HAS ANY BACKING WHATSOEVER BY ANYTHING MENTIONED IN THE COMICS, none of these facts have been said out aloud, clearly or vaguely elaborated, shown by pictures or described or narrated, and if they have as always i would like to see them, coming out of you or one of the other jean groupies. and WATCH YOUR MOUTH, this YOUNGSTER can be your undoing OLD MAN.{actually its a pity that a grown man like you cant seem to win an argument against a YOUNGSTER like me}
Originally posted by Whirlysplatt
The HOTU is an entity hmmmmmmm........is it? 😕 🙂The White hot room is in the Crystal which is where 🙂 I see a paradox coming on with this line of thinking..............Which is hardly suprising where Phoenix is concerned 🙂
He/she corrected themselves they know its not an entity. Do you actually read the posts of the opposition?😛
It is what it is. Whirly despite how messed up you think it might be. Despite the contradictions the concepts bring about. Thats a fault with the writers. Personal thoughts and feelings dont really come into it. Thats all your counters are based on. So they dont hold much weight. 🙁
Originally posted by GalacticStorm
He/she corrected themselves they know its not an entity. Do you actually read the posts of the opposition?😛It is what it is. Whirly despite how messed up you think it might be. Despite the contradictions the concepts bring about. Thats a fault with the writers. Personal thoughts and feelings dont really come into it. Thats all your counters are based on. So they dont hold much weight. 🙁
for someone who believes so wholeheartedly in leaving emotions behind, you seem to show a lot of love for jean and the pheonix, almost as if, they meant sumthing, sumthing thats very close to u.
Originally posted by leonheartmm
none of the things you mentioned ranging from pheonix having SHOWN greater dominance than the tribunal or speeding the cycle of creation to the mkraan crystal beeing the reset switch of the entire multiverse and including all the crap about jean and only ean having the power to rectify the crystal, the PF being second to toaa to the avatars existing out of creation HAS ANY BACKING WHATSOEVER BY ANYTHING MENTIONED IN THE COMICS, none of these facts have been said out aloud, clearly or vaguely elaborated, shown by pictures or described or narrated, and if they have as always i would like to see them, coming out of you or one of the other jean groupies. and WATCH YOUR MOUTH, this YOUNGSTER can be your undoing OLD MAN.{actually its a pity that a grown man like you cant seem to win an argument against a YOUNGSTER like me}
This is no competition youngster this is just a lil fun. I dont take comic book debates that seriously son ive got things going for me in the real world.
If you want to know where it states the crystal is basically a multiversal reset switch you need only check out Uncanny Xmen 107, Uncanny Xmen 202, 203 and Gambit and the Xternals 3
As for the Phoenix Force being second to the supreme being that is stated in Uncanny Xmen 137 and more recently in New Xmen and Endsong we find out this power comes from the Crown the place where gods consciousness resides.
Also we know that the avatars exist in the white hot room which is beyond creation. That is common knowledge to all Marvel readers Leon are you sure you werent bluffing? 😉 This is also made quite clear in both Classic Xmen 8 and again in New Xmen 154. How else do you think Jean could hold the 616 universe in her hand if she wasnt outside the boundaries of creation. Come on common sense please. 🙄
Originally posted by leonheartmm
and you obviously dont know much about the origin of the marvel multiverse, TOAA created the infinite being and the true beyonders, the infinte being got bored of its loneliness and infinte power and comitted suicide, its energies created the multiverse.
You obviously havent heard of the comic book term RETCON. That whole scenario came up during the phoenix retcon of 86 to 2002 the one you conveniently seem to forget about with each of your posts. With the phoenix retcon abolished 3 YEARS AGO phoenix came back into prominence. We clear on that now? 🙂
Originally posted by Whirlysplatt
The HOTU is an entity hmmmmmmm........is it? 😕 🙂The White hot room is in the Crystal which is where 🙂 I see a paradox coming on with this line of thinking..............Which is hardly suprising where Phoenix is concerned 🙂
Originally posted by wannabe
What's your reason for exactly knowing what i want to say(which i assume, cause you seem rather intelligent) and still taking a simple mistake in spelling as a beachhead for a TRY to invalidate otherwise logical resoning?!
❌
I didn't notice a spelling mistake, as everyone on here knows I am dyslexic, what spelling mistake did I pick up 😕
Originally posted by GalacticStorm
This is no competition youngster this is just a lil fun. I dont take comic book debates that seriously son ive got things going for me in the real world.If you want to know where it states the crystal is basically a multiversal reset switch you need only check out Uncanny Xmen 107, Uncanny Xmen 202, 203 and Gambit and the Xternals 3
As for the Phoenix Force being second to the supreme being that is stated in Uncanny Xmen 137 and more recently in New Xmen and Endsong we find out this power comes from the Crown the place where gods consciousness resides.
Also we know that the avatars exist in the white hot room which is beyond creation. That is common knowledge to all Marvel readers Leon are you sure you werent bluffing? 😉 This is also made quite clear in both Classic Xmen 8 and again in New Xmen 154. How else do you think Jean could hold the 616 universe in her hand if she wasnt outside the boundaries of creation. Come on common sense please. 🙄
idiotic as usual, even as a grown man, you have the brains of a toddler, have you fogotten that our little pal franklin richards held all of his created full sized universes in his tiny litle hands while still fully existing in this universe.also, have you forgotten that adam warlock exists outside the multiverse, and hes not even surfer level.and if it is stated in so many comics, why do u refuse to post a scan of a page on which we hear someone say that the crown is where god's conciousness resides?
Originally posted by GalacticStorm
You obviously havent heard of the comic book term RETCON. That whole scenario came up during the phoenix retcon of 86 to 2002 the one you conveniently seem to forget about with each of your posts. With the phoenix retcon abolished 3 YEARS AGO phoenix came back into prominence. We clear on that now? 🙂
Please answer my simple question, asked yet again 🙂 With where it says Phoenix is Gods Power Source. A scan proving this statement would be lovely to validate your case, don't you think 🙂
🙂
Originally posted by GalacticStorm
You obviously havent heard of the comic book term RETCON. That whole scenario came up during the phoenix retcon of 86 to 2002 the one you conveniently seem to forget about with each of your posts. With the phoenix retcon abolished 3 YEARS AGO phoenix came back into prominence. We clear on that now? 🙂
well unfortunately, toaa and the infinite being, along with the heart of the universe and the true beyonders were never retconned in accordance with the pheonix.
Originally posted by leonheartmm
idiotic as usual, even as a grown man, you have the brains of a toddler, have you fogotten that our little pal franklin richards held all of his created full sized universes in his tiny litle hands while still fully existing in this universe.also, have you forgotten that adam warlock exists outside the multiverse, and hes not even surfer level.and if it is stated in so many comics, why do u refuse to post a scan of a page on which we hear someone say that the crown is where god's conciousness resides?
Silly boy. When you post a scan that proves Franklin can create something greater than pocket universes then you'd be on the brink of having a point. Creation is used to describe all that is below/beyond the afterlife/ the white hot room. Adam Warlock may be beyond the 616 universe or the multiverse but he is still within creation im afraid. Good attempt though. Bravo!!
Not everyone has access to a scanner. Ive listed the comics for you. They are easily downloaded. I have done all i am obligated to do. Why dont you put the effort into trying to prove me wrong and check up on those references ive given you? 😱
Originally posted by GalacticStorm
Silly boy. When you post a scan that proves Franklin can create something greater than pocket universes then you'd be on the brink of having a point. Creation is used to describe all that is below/beyond the afterlife/ the white hot room. Adam Warlock may be beyond the 616 universe or the multiverse but he is still within creation im afraid. Good attempt though. Bravo!!Not everyone has access to a scanner. Ive listed the comics for you. They are easily downloaded. I have done all i am obligated to do. Why dont you put the effort into trying to prove me wrong and check up on those references ive given you? 😱
What do you think a pocket Universe is GS?
😖hifty:
and why do you think creating one is less of a feat than repairing an existing universe 🙂