Namor vs Superman

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
Superman wins all the time. Namor could beat Hulk in the water because he was stronger than hulks base level, hulks manouevrability compared to Namor is poor especially in water. Supermans strength is immense and is far in excess of the low level class 100 that is Namor. As pointed out because of the nature of his flight capabilties Supes isnt restricted in water as the hulk was and he can even move faster in water than Namor who is limited to a swimming speed of 60 mph.

Supes wins very easily.

Comic book artists and writers hardly ever use the Class system. I think people in this forum should stop using it aswell. There are different levels of strength:

Spiderman / Bane

Thing / Colossus / Cyborg / Wonder man /

Aquaman / Superboy / Namor (in water) / Abomination / Ultimate Thing + Colossus

Thor / Wonder woman / Current she Hulk / Juggernuaght / Gladiator/ Thanos / Hercules / Nefaria

Superman / /Mangog / Destroyer / Despero / Eighth Day Juggernaught

Galactus / Celstials / Pharalax / Magus Blah BLah

N.b. there is a big difference

"Handbooks are there as a guideline. Marvel has always said this. They give an idea of what characters are at least capable of. Despite the inaccuracies the handbooks at the very least give us an idea of the hierarchy of th eheroes and how Marvel intends the characters to compare power wise. In terms of strength Namor is simply outclassed by the likes of Hulk, Superman and so on"

Yes and by guideline it doesnt translate " he only does this or that ". Hulk has done far more than his handbooks entries have always said. So did Namor.

About sometimes beating Hulk. He defeat both times the fight happened underwater. His record its clean. He stalemated him on other ocassions and the black spot on his rep (everyone has them) was against Mindless Hulk. And we know why that happened.

When Hulk skyrockts he becomes stronger than any other of the top tier. Even Superman. However Namors case its not a Ben Grimm example where hes a class or two below and that can - hang - out with the main guys strenghtwise. This is someone who goes - toe to toe - with them.

When you go toe to toe with the main guns, you dont belong to the low section of the same class. Now if you ask me if Superman its stronger. Yes he is. Slighty. Is he going to win underwater against Namor? Yes. All of them? The way i see it, no.

lets keep in mind while in the same way he can use heat vision, Namor can use other ways to beat him. Like Poseidon`s Trident.

A h2h underwater fight? Namor for me. He has superior skills and the enought strenght to accomplish it.

Im not saying your totally wrong GS. Your points about Superman being able to fight underwater are accepted. Its not like Namor would ever have it easy just because its his turf. I just dont take the low class part in any serious way.

A bit out of topic now:

yahman, Superman belongs the class below. Not that one. Thats too high for him.

Originally posted by olympian
"Handbooks are there as a guideline. Marvel has always said this. They give an idea of what characters are at least capable of. Despite the inaccuracies the handbooks at the very least give us an idea of the hierarchy of th eheroes and how Marvel intends the characters to compare power wise. In terms of strength Namor is simply outclassed by the likes of Hulk, Superman and so on"

Yes and by guideline it doesnt translate " he only does this or that ". Hulk has done far more than his handbooks entries have always said. So did Namor.

About sometimes beating Hulk. He defeat both times the fight happened underwater. His record its clean. He stalemated him on other ocassions and the black spot on his rep (everyone has them) was aganist Mindless Hulk. And we know why that happened.

When Hulk skyrockts he becomes stronger than any other of the top tier. Even Superman. However Namors case its not a Ben Grimm example where hes a class or two below and that can - hang - out with the main guys strenghtwise. This is someone who goes - toe to toe - with them.

When you go toe to toe with the main guns, you dont belong to the low section of the same class. Now if you ask me if Superman its stronger. Yes he is. Slighty. Is he going to win underwater against Namor? Yes. All of them? The way i see it, no.

lets keep in mind while in the same way he can use heat vision, Namor can use other ways to beat him. Like Poseidon`s Trident.

A h2h underwater fight? Namor for me. He has superior skills and the enought strenght to accomplish it.

A bit out of topic now:

yahman, Superman belongs the class below. Not that one. Thats too high for him.

'yahman, Superman belongs the class below. Not that one. Thats too high for him.'

What ever !

🙂

People should reject the class system completely. People should start analysing Marvel caharacters like D.C. characters. (E.G. Read comics and compare Feats).
🙂

Superman Wins 8/10 in water.

""""""""Yes and by guideline it doesnt translate " he only does this or that ". Hulk has done far more than his handbooks entries have always said. So did Namor.

""""""""""""""""""

Olympian of course it doesnt mean that. Thats why i said the word guideline in the first place. However he is still classed as level 6 in comparison to the hulk and other high class 100's level 7. Their handbook entries too wouldnt have everry single detail and aspect of their characters included so it goes both ways im afraid. However the Handbook lets you know that according to marvel, in their eyes Namor is not on the same strength level as the Hulk and so on. He is not high class 100. He is class 100 however and is capable of some good feats, his powers and training allow him to take on and sometimes defeat level 7 people, however he can not match their raw power. Simple as.

Superman outclasses him in speed and strength majorly, even underwater. He is ridiculously outclassed and could be speed blitzed. Namors swimming speed is 60 mph for goodness sake.

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
""""""""Yes and by guideline it doesnt translate " he only does this or that ". Hulk has done far more than his handbooks entries have always said. So did Namor.

""""""""""""""""""

Olympian of course it doesnt mean that. Thats why i said the word guideline in the first place. However he is still classed as level 6 in comparison to the hulk and other high class 100's level 7. Their handbook entries too wouldnt have everry single detail and aspect of their characters included so it goes both ways im afraid. However the Handbook lets you know that according to marvel, in their eyes Namor is not on the same strength level as the Hulk and so on. He is not high class 100. He is class 100 however and is capable of some good feats, his powers and training allow him to take on and sometimes defeat level 7 people, however he can not match their raw power. Simple as.

Superman outclasses him in speed and strength majorly, even underwater. He is ridiculously outclassed and could be speed blitzed. Namors swimming speed is 60 mph for goodness sake.

The handbook makes no reference to high and Low class 100. 😉

How can you even compare Superman to Asgardian Destroyer or 8th day Juggernaut?

And that is by reading feats and comics 😉

Superman underwater :

Hand to Hand - Namor 7/10

All powers - Superman 7/8/10

Poseidons Trident - Lets not go there. I find it cool tho.

"Olympian of course it doesnt mean that. Thats why i said the word guideline in the first place. However he is still classed as level 6 in comparison to the hulk and other high class 100's level 7. Their handbook entries too wouldnt have everry single detail and aspect of their characters included so it goes both ways im afraid"

I totally understand. But how does it dismisses the fact in comics that wer printed and are on continuity he has two wins against Hulk and stalemated him every since except for once. And he does have a similiar record with other hitters.

Writters hardly follow the guidelines. Even in the old handbooks when Herc and Hulk wer written as being incalculable, was Thor show in comics being any weaker than these two? Was Herk ever showed to be heaps and bounds above Thor, since he had a "limit" and he by the handbook didnt.?

What about When Only Hulk, Glads and Herk wer tagged class 100 and Namor, Thor and others class 90? Wer they ever showed or written to be any weaker than those?

Its this kind of examples that makes me go by comics. And by those Namor is and never was that weak compared with the likes of Thor and Hulk.

Originally posted by yahman
The handbook makes no reference to high and Low class 100. 😉

Dont get smart with me sonny. The handbook however states what the definition of class 100 is. Being able to lift at least 100 tons and more.

Namor is at level 6 which incorporates those as low as class 75 and his bio states that he is able to routinely lift 100 tons, marking him out as a class 100. You then have people like the hulk, Thanos and King Thor as well as many cosmic beings who are level 7. Their bios often say they can lift way in excess of 100 tons and their rating of 7 marks theur strength out as virtually immeasureable because of the enormity of weights they have been able to lift. Thats where you get your high and your low class 100's. Namor as strong as he is cant match the likes of Hulk in terms of raw strength. He cant. Thats not debatable. His considerable strength and his speed and warrior skills however allow him to engage such powerhouses hand to hand and quite successfully in some situations.

Superman has immense strength which the Hulk would need to get really worked up to even come close, he has far greater speed than Namor and he isnt really disadvantaged underwater. Namor swims at 60 mph is nowhere near as strong as Superman and thats the crux of the matter.

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
Dont get smart with me sonny. The handbook however states what the definition of class 100 is. Being able to lift at least 100 tons and more.

Namor is at level 6 which incorporates those as low as class 75 and his bio states that he is able to routinely lift 100 tons, marking him out as a class 100. You then have people like the hulk, Thanos and King Thor as well as many cosmic beings who are level 7. Their bios often say they can lift way in excess of 100 tons and their rating of 7 marks theur strength out as virtually immeasureable because of the enormity of weights they have been able to lift. Thats where you get your high and your low class 100's. Namor as strong as he is cant match the likes of Hulk in terms of raw strength. He cant. Thats not debatable. His considerable strength and his speed and warrior skills however allow him to engage such powerhouses hand to hand and quite successfully in some situations.

Superman has immense strength which the Hulk would need to get really worked up to even come close, he has far greater speed than Namor and he isnt really disadvantaged underwater. Namor swims at 60 mph is nowhere near as strong as Superman and thats the crux of the matter.

Level 6 = 75 - 100 tons

the line means too. Not way over, Not Mid Class 100. 😉

Abomination = Level 7. He has been beaten by Namor.

"Namor as strong as he is cant match the likes of Hulk in terms of raw strength. He cant. Thats not debatable. His considerable strength and his speed and warrior skills however allow him to engage such powerhouses hand to hand and quite successfully in some situations."

Of course its debatable. You just prefer to go by a source that always had errors instead the showings in the comics. And lets make a mark here. Heavy hitters can match the Hulk in raw strenght. Namor did it. Hercules did it. Thor did it. Its when he gets beyond that he goes above these guys. That and the fact so far he never owned any of those at full power in a battle.

You also make reference to Marvels stance about how Namor inside the Universe measure with the Hulk. Yes he plays second fold. So does Hercules. And one time and another Thor does as well. However characters popularity in and outiside the universe have no bearing of how theyr figths went.

Originally posted by yahman
Level 6 = 75 - 100 tons

the line means too. Not way over, Not Mid Class 100. 😉

Abomination = Level 7. He has been beaten by Namor.

The definiton of class 100 is to be able to lift at least 100 tons. Being level 6 encompasses that. Namor is classified as class 6. Marvels system is only to be taken as a guideline for what the characters are definitely capable of time and time again. They used to make a point of saying this in their old handbooks. The handbooks show what you can at least expect from the characters in terms of their powers. However the handbooks also show the hierarchy of the characters. Namor being 6 in strength is lower than Hulk who is 7. Its really as simple as that. In terms of numbers Namor can lift way more than the range his level 6 rating allows for, jus like Rogue has been shown to lift more than 50 tons at times. However because rogue can and has defeated she hulk who is a higher rating than her im not going to disregard the handbook. Its made clear that its just a guideline. According to Marvel Namor isnt in the same strength level as Hulk he is not high class 100. By their own definition Namor makes it into the class 100 category however the fact that he's rated by Marvel themselves as lower in strength than the likes of Hulk and Thanos lets you know that he's certainly not high class 100

It is the assumption of thsese debates that the characters are fighting to the best of their ability and at full power. Namor cant match Hulk and other high class 100's in terms of raw power if theyre at full power going all out. He simply can not. Thats not debatable. His considerable strength and abilities allows him to engage them, definitely hold his own and sometimes defeat them however theres no denying that he can not match the full unbridled strength of the people Marvel consider above him. Hence his rating.

People please dont confuse and intwine fighting skill with raw power. Namor is far more skilled at fighting than Hulk and has considerable strength of his own. Thats why he can go toe to toe with him and defeat him. Its really not debatable that Namor can match the full power of Superman or the Hulk its really not.

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
The definiton of class 100 is to be able to lift at least 100 tons. Being level 6 encompasses that. Namor is classified as class 6. Marvels system is only to be taken as a guideline for what the characters are definitely capable of time and time again. They used to make a point of saying this in their old handbooks. The handbooks show what you can at least expect from the characters in terms of their powers. However the handbooks also show the hierarchy of the characters. Namor being 6 in strength is lower than Hulk who is 7. Its really as simple as that. In terms of numbers Namor can lift way more than the range his level 6 rating allows for, jus like Rogue has been shown to lift more than 50 tons at times. However because rogue can and has defeated she hulk who is a higher rating than her im not going to disregard the handbook. Its made clear that its just a guideline. According to Marvel Namor isnt in the same strength level as Hulk he is not high class 100. By their own definition Namor makes it into the class 100 category however the fact that he's rated by Marvel themselves as lower in strength than the likes of Hulk and Thanos lets you know that he's certainly not high class 100

I agree with you u. The New system could have been really good, if it hadn't incorperated Numerical Values with it.

E.G. Level 6 beings dont have a defined limit but a generally accepted as being weaker than level 7 characters.

Also note that Abomination is not a high level 7 character. !!!!!!!!!!!! Id drop him to level 6.

Originally posted by yahman
I agree with you u. The New system could have been really good, if it hadn't incorperated Numerical Values with it.

E.G. Level 6 beings dont have a defined limit but a generally accepted as being weaker than level 7 characters.

Also note that Abomination is not a high level 7 character. !!!!!!!!!!!! Id drop him to level 6.

Exactly. I thought Abomination was level 6 in the latest handbook anyway?

"It is the assumption of thsese debates that the characters are fighting to the best of their ability and at full power. Namor cant match Hulk and other high class 100's in terms of raw power if theyre at full power going all out"

I agree and dont agree. Hulk doesnt always get on a level that leaves the high class 100 behind. He does that rarely. Until then he can be matched with the ocassionally problems. This is not translating into winning. It means both can happen. The fact this fight isent on land or just Namor fresh out of water, means he will be all out in this scenario. Now if its h2h he takes the majority. If its all powers to use while its a good fight, Superman wins the majority.

"People please dont confuse and intwine fighting skill with raw power. Namor is far more skilled at fighting than Hulk and has considerable strength of his own."

Mostly agree expect for one thing. As skilled as you are if your not at least middle class 100, you wont last long against the heavy hitters full out. Imagine Superboy against Superman. Or against Hulk. Ouch.

Namor to go toe to toe, as he has, means he has to have more than just the enought strenght to tangle with them. That added to skill, wich your right its one of his best assets while on Superman its one of the worst, can give him the win against the likes of Hulk, Hercules etc.

But only underwater where he goes full on with no loss of his might.

I can see your pov from the guildelines, i just have them as erronic and follow the comics instead.

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
Exactly. I thought Abomination was level 6 in the latest handbook anyway?

The Marvel Website has him at level 7. Do you think there should be a Level 8 and 9 Introduced for people Like Glactus and the Celestials?

Originally posted by yahman
The Marvel Website has him at level 7. Do you think there should be a Level 8 and 9 Introduced for people Like Glactus and the Celestials?

I could swear the handbook has him at level 6. Im sure it does. I'll read it later. Their websites bios are really outdated anyway so if you're going to reference bios id download the handbooks. Use winmx.

Well Galactus and the Celestials are too high level and dont fight physically so i dont think theres any point. Its obvious that no matter how strong our heroes are theyre going to be stronger. Plus when you're really powerful like herald and above level you're stats become virtually unlimited anyway so i think its fine having it as 7 which is immeasureable or virtually unlimited.

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
I could swear the handbook has him at level 6. Im sure it does. I'll read it later. Their websites bios are really outdated anyway so if you're going to reference bios id download the handbooks. Use winmx.

Well Galactus and the Celestials are too high level and dont fight physically so i dont think theres any point. Its obvious that no matter how strong our heroes are theyre going to be stronger. Plus when you're really powerful like herald and above level you're stats become virtually unlimited anyway so i think its fine having it as 7 which is immeasureable or virtually unlimited.

Can you Scan in the Winmix website again. please ???????????? 🙂

Originally posted by yahman
Can you Scan in the Winmix website again. please ???????????? 🙂

http://www.winmx.com/

LOL

Namor has a level 6 in strength.

The 2004 FF encyclopedia and the 2005 FF handbood have him at 6.

Then on the Golden Age handbook he has a level 6 also. Which means that he isnt class 100. He can lift up to a 100 tons. Anything over 100 tons would be a level 7.

I forgot this too. The 2002 Marvel encyclopedia has him at level 6 once again.