Originally posted by GalacticStorm
""""""""Yes and by guideline it doesnt translate " he only does this or that ". Hulk has done far more than his handbooks entries have always said. So did Namor.""""""""""""""""""
Olympian of course it doesnt mean that. Thats why i said the word guideline in the first place. However he is still classed as level 6 in comparison to the hulk and other high class 100's level 7. Their handbook entries too wouldnt have everry single detail and aspect of their characters included so it goes both ways im afraid. However the Handbook lets you know that according to marvel, in their eyes Namor is not on the same strength level as the Hulk and so on. He is not high class 100. He is class 100 however and is capable of some good feats, his powers and training allow him to take on and sometimes defeat level 7 people, however he can not match their raw power. Simple as.
Superman outclasses him in speed and strength majorly, even underwater. He is ridiculously outclassed and could be speed blitzed. Namors swimming speed is 60 mph for goodness sake.
According to the guy who wrote the handbook he is not on the same level of strength. I doubt though that he has read every comic Namor has been in. And he clearly hasn't since the handbook says that Namor can lift UP to 100 tons, while even the old "Class 85" Namor did more at least ten times.
You should ask it from Bill Everett who created Namor, but since he is dead, you should ask it from Stan Lee who gave Namor the soul and essence and who also created Hulk. Since that is not available, should I trust um...Ronald Byrd who hasn't written a comic in his life?
You say that I always give examples of comics when they are in my help. Well, that is not true. People always ask that "Show us a proof that Namor is class 100, show us a proof that Namor has superhuman reflexes". I show them the comic pictures. "We don't believe until we see a handbook entry", and I give them the handbook entry. That is when I use the handbooks. I know that Namor is Class 100 without handbooks. I know that he has superhuman reflexes. But some people don't.
And Superman wins. I have already stated it.
Originally posted by DarkCrawler
According to the guy who wrote the handbook he is not on the same level of strength. I doubt though that he has read every comic Namor has been in. And he clearly hasn't since the handbook says that Namor can lift UP to 100 tons, while even the old "Class 85" Namor did more at least ten times.You should ask it from Bill Everett who created Namor, but since he is dead, you should ask it from Stan Lee who gave Namor the soul and essence and who also created Hulk. Since that is not available, should I trust um...Ronald Byrd who hasn't written a comic in his life?
You say that I always give examples of comics when they are in my help. Well, that is not true. People always ask that "Show us a proof that Namor is class 100, show us a proof that Namor has superhuman reflexes". I show them the comic pictures. "We don't believe until we see a handbook entry", and I give them the handbook entry. That is when I use the handbooks. I know that Namor is Class 100 without handbooks. I know that he has superhuman reflexes. But some people don't.
And Superman wins. I have already stated it.
Not true DC. I seem to recall in the Namor Vs Storm thread when there wasnt concrete evidence that Namor had enhanced reflexes you showed a handbook scan to verify your claims. That was fine, it was supporting your beloved flat head. Now im using the handbook to support my claim that Namor is low level class 100 compared to hulk and so on who are level 7's. As i have said before and what doesnt seem to be able to penetrate your skull is the fact that the handbooks are just guidelines. Characters such as rogue who are stated to lift 50 tons are shown doing feats which place their strength level far above that. So while you know that the class system isnt 100% accurate in terms of numbers you do know the hierarchy of the characters. For example rogue at level 5 is not on par strength wise with the thing at level 6 or she hulk even though she has fought them successfully and defeated them. Her abilities and her considerable strength allowed her to gain a victory over her rivals. In terms of raw strength she's outclassed. Hence her lower rating. It is exactly the same situation with Namor in comparison to the likes of Hulk and King Thor. In terms of raw strength he's not on their level, regardless of your opinion or your wishes for your favourite character. I know id rather put my faith in Marvel.
Originally posted by GalacticStorm
Not true DC. I seem to recall in the Namor Vs Storm thread when there wasnt concrete evidence that Namor had enhanced reflexes you showed a handbook scan to verify your claims. That was fine, it was supporting your beloved flat head. Now im using the handbook to support my claim that Namor is low level class 100 compared to hulk and so on who are level 7's. As i have said before and what doesnt seem to be able to penetrate your skull is the fact that the handbooks are just guidelines. Characters such as rogue who are stated to lift 50 tons are shown doing feats which place their strength level far above that. So while you know that the class system isnt 100% accurate in terms of numbers you do know the hierarchy of the characters. For example rogue at level 5 is not on par strength wise with the thing at level 6 or she hulk even though she has fought them successfully and defeated them. Her abilities and her considerable strength allowed her to gain a victory over her rivals. In terms of raw strength she's outclassed. Hence her lower rating. It is exactly the same situation with Namor in comparison to the likes of Hulk and King Thor. In terms of raw strength he's not on their level, regardless of your opinion or your wishes for your favourite character. I know id rather put my faith in Marvel.
"When namor starts throwing and moving planet sized objects on a whim, then we can talk strength"
Beating Savage Hulk twice and stalemating Hulk the other times and immortal hercules also twice doesnt speak for it?
Black Adam pre crisis didnt had any lifting feats in the level of Superman, and he was showed and considered stronger than either Superman -and- Captain Marvel.
How about Thanos? How many strenght feats he has? Or Juggernaut.
Combat feats have use for something. Otherwise i would claim Hercules to be much stronger than Juggernaut and Thanos.
He's said to be on whatever level, by the handbooks right?
And someone is saying in the comics that he's done MORE?
Well, in a heated moment 'feats' that are out of character can be made.
It's how you get tales similar to "Woman lifts car to save baby", type of deal.
More or less I was explaining how he does these things, even though it says he shouldn't be able to.
Originally posted by olympian
"When namor starts throwing and moving planet sized objects on a whim, then we can talk strength"Beating Savage Hulk twice and stalemating Hulk the other times and immortal hercules also twice doesnt speak for it?
Black Adam pre crisis didnt had any lifting feats in the level of Superman, and he was showed and considered stronger than either Superman -and- Captain Marvel.
How about Thanos? How many strenght feats he has? Or Juggernaut.
Combat feats have use for something. Otherwise i would claim Hercules to be much stronger than Juggernaut and Thanos.
"He's said to be on whatever level, by the handbooks right?
And someone is saying in the comics that he's done MORE"
Read any handbook entry. Read his fights and strenght feats in the comics.
They dont follow each other.
Same for every top hero practically. I seem to recall some handbooks entries saying Hulk couldnt whistand nuclear explosions and how many times hes done that? Something like three? One being the Grey Hulk, who is the weakest incarnation to date.
"Didn't Superman just stand in a barrage of a Hulk attack and let him keep hitting him and was even having a conversation with himself in his head about how the Hulk kept getting stronger, and then just "OK time to end it" and burried him in one blow?
lol."
They have two encounters. Did you also missed the one where Hulk punches pre crisis Superman into the orbit or such and the fight stopped?
Anybody can read the part we like best.
Originally posted by GalacticStorm
Not true DC. I seem to recall in the Namor Vs Storm thread when there wasnt concrete evidence that Namor had enhanced reflexes you showed a handbook scan to verify your claims.
I had the evidence. He does the same things Spider-Man did. Dodging lasers, Mach 1 attacks and bullets from close range tells me that he has superhuman reflexes. YOU were the ones that said "it isn't said in handbook, therefore he doesn't have them". You needed the handbook evidence. Not me.
Originally posted by DarkCrawler
I had the evidence. He does the same things Spider-Man did. Dodging lasers, Mach 1 attacks and bullets from close range tells me that he has superhuman reflexes. YOU were the ones that said "it isn't said in handbook, therefore he doesn't have them". You needed the handbook evidence. Not me.
You've lost anyway DC its quite clear to those who stand on neutral ground that Namor would win. Your evidence was easily disputed and argued against therefore it wasnt concrete, that was when you showed the excerpt from the house of M secrets book to support your beloved Namor. Im doing the same just to let you know that according to Marvel he's not on Hulk or Supes level in terms of strength. I know you love him but im afraid its true.
Originally posted by GalacticStorm
For example rogue at level 5 is not on par strength wise with the thing at level 6 or she hulk even though she has fought them successfully and defeated them. Her abilities and her considerable strength allowed her to gain a victory over her rivals. In terms of raw strength she's outclassed. Hence her lower rating. It is exactly the same situation with Namor in comparison to the likes of Hulk and King Thor. In terms of raw strength he's not on their level, regardless of your opinion or your wishes for your favourite character. I know id rather put my faith in Marvel.
Um...unless you know, Rogue hasn't never beaten Thing or She-Hulk with pure strength. She uses her absorption powers.
Namor beats them through pure strength.
And I put my faith on Marvel too, as in writers of the comics. You put your faith to some random guy who writes a handbook entry.
Originally posted by GalacticStorm
You've lost anyway DC its quite clear to those who stand on neutral ground that Namor would win. Your evidence was easily disputed and argued against therefore it wasnt concrete, that was when you showed the excerpt from the house of M secrets book to support your beloved Namor. Im doing the same just to let you know that according to Marvel he's not on Hulk or Supes level in terms of strength. I know you love him but im afraid its true.
Showed the proof to you, so you would believe it. You wouldn't otherwise, since you like to go by your beloved handbooks.
Originally posted by DarkCrawler
Um...unless you know, Rogue hasn't never beaten Thing or She-Hulk with pure strength. She uses her absorption powers.Namor beats them through pure strength.
And I put my faith on Marvel too, as in writers. You put your faith to some random guy who writes a handbook entry.
Namor beats the Hulk and so on through the use of his abilities as well as his strength. Namor doesnt stand on the ground and win a fight with the hulk because he's in the same strength league. Namor is a far better fighter, he is far more manouevrable and he is smarter. Therefore he can engage a powerhouse like the hulk and be successful in some cases, however he is not on the same level strength wise hence his lower rating. This is ludicrous DC i know you love Namor but you risk losing your credibility saying he can match the full strength of the hulk.
The handbooks are given Marvels blessings and are sanctioned by them. It is made clear that they ar emerely guidelines. In terms of numbers they are not 100% accurate however they convey the characters standing in the hierarchy just fine. Namor is level 6, Hulk, Thanos , King Thor are level 7. Deal with it
Originally posted by DarkCrawler
Showed the proof to you, so you would believe it. You wouldn't otherwise, since you like to go by your beloved handbooks.
You showed me what you deemed to be sufficient proof. Myself and other members found that wasnt the case. Your proof was picked apart and explanations were made as to why they didnt show what you wanted them to show as a Namor fan. You then relied on the Handbook to prove your point which was fine. Im doing so right now.