Originally posted by queeq
There is always the matter of taste. I do feel ESb still is anamazing film, not just an amazing SW film. That basically only goes for ANH and ESB, they stand out as great and original films that work like a charm. I am sure none of the PT films will ever get that status.
The whole thing, the script, the acting, the direction... none of the other SW movies reach this level. And even the Hoth battle scenes... they are amazing. Maybe not superduper CGI shit and all, but it's a perfect execution of a grat scene. Very unlike the messy and totally unclear crap we saw in TPM, or just the general PT approach: a lot and fast too approach.
No, ESB will stand the test of time (it already has in fact) of a great classic film . I doubt ROTS will ever reach that status.
That is so true.ESB has withstood the time as a great and classic film along with a new hope.I seriously doubt sith will ever reach that status either.yeah ESB and a ANH are really the only star wars films that stand out as great and original films that work like a charm.
Re: Re: Which was a better movie: The Empire Strikes Back or Revenge of the Sith
Originally posted by xyz jediHere's a good list on the two.
Good match. Lets see,the empire strikes back
[list=1]
[*]good story
[*]more than one plot at the same time
[*]good ending
[*]good characters/actors
[*]creates mood
[*]more than one genre
[*]action
[/list]revenge of the sith
[list=1]
[*]good story
[*]better effects
[*]good ending
[*]lightsaber action
[*]twist
[*]the final installment to link everything together
[/list]over all TESB
Re: Re: Which was a better movie: The Empire Strikes Back or Revenge of the Sith
Originally posted by xyz jedi
Good match. Lets see,the empire strikes back
[list=1]
[*]good story
[*]more than one plot at the same time
[*]good ending
[*]good characters/actors
[*]creates mood
[*]more than one genre
[*]action
[/list]revenge of the sith
[list=1]
[*]good story
[*]better effects
[*]good ending
[*]lightsaber action
[*]twist
[*]the final installment to link everything together
[/list]over all TESB
Lightsaber action wasn't the only action happening. You had the clone Wars on land and air and space, you had the Gen G/Kenobi chase/hanger beef just to mention a couple. Someone else would've said that because you favor "ESB" you purposefully manipulated your list to make it seem "ESB" had more to pick from. Cause I know I could easily added more categories to your current ROTS list. The question is, is does it make it a better movie than "EBS" cause it has more categories? What you should've done is come up with equally numbered list of reasons why "ESB" and "ROTS" were good to see which one one really measures up evenly matched.
Not to devalue your opinion but to me your "ESB" list is everything "ROTS" was. There was more than 1 plot..Palpatine plotting as Sidious, a plot to destroy the Jedi. In the DVD, senators plotting against the republic talking about a Rebellion. There were a whole bunch of simultaneous things goin on in "ROTS". And you didn't think "ROTS" had good actors in it. IMO I think Hayden improved in ROTS. Padme was cool, she didn't suck. Samuel J. was great. Ian was the best an Ewan shone once more. Sure chessy dialogue pop up but I dont remember leaving the theatres after watching "ROTS" saying "The acting blew in it." And I though the Gen. G. character was cooler than anything.
But if "ESB" is a better film to you, cool beans.
Originally posted by Tangible God
I guess you could always just say: "ESB had more soul to it."
I'm gonna say this at last, but I recently watched "ESB" to try to find this "emotional" factor everyone else on this post has claimed to have seen in "ESB". I honestly had a hard time finding anything in that had more emotion or "soul" than "ROTS" did, or maybe I'm just blind to it.
Like was so emotional about "EBS". What, when Han kisses Leia the few times he does? Or when Vader telepathically communicated with Luke via the Force a la "Luke"-"Father"- "Son"-"Ben...why didn't you tell me." Or was it the last part of the movie where Lando and Chewie flew off to Tattoie to get Han, where you saw Luke embracing Leia as they looked out onto the Melinium Falcon departure?
I gotta give this to ROTS. We all know Empire is a great film, but I think people overestimate it's greatness. The "I am your father" line is by far one of the best parts in film history, yet that does not make the entire film as good. Hoth is a terrible ship battle that isn't exciting at all. The lightsaber action is pretty good, but, like in ROTJ, we have to spend so long before we even get into the story that it seems futile for the whole beginning to be that long.
ROTS starts off almost immediately into the story and continues. Grievous was a little bit pointless, I'll admit, but the rest of the story is just carried on very well. It has more emotion in it than any other Star Wars film, the violence is more realistic, and its got enough of those Star Wars moments that it outshines Empire. You know for a fact you got chills when you heard the first Vader breath.
From a cinematic point of view, Irvin Kershner was a shrewd director who concentrated on creating a feeling that something big was going to happen throught the entire film. The color palette has many, many stark blues, which is contrasted beautifully by the fiery red of Bespin. Sith lacked any sort of concious directorial tricks based in the fundamental sense of direction, concentrating on teh technical aspects of filmmaking, making it a strkingly inferior film, in that respect.
From a story point of view, both stories have decently well-crafted plots, but Empire's protagonists have a more reactionary goal in the film, while Anakin and Obi Wan have decisions that must be made. Anakin deciding what he does was not bought by everyone, and I've often wondered why Obi Wan and Yoda didn't take on the Emperor together, and then go after Anakin together. If they surprised both of them, they could have easily taken over. Because ROTS requires more of a suspension of disbelief, its story tends to lack the power of Empire's.
There are also those overtly campy moments that there are no excuse for. You know what I'm talking about.
So, it seems clear, to me, at least, that Empire is a stronger film and will be remembered more fondly as a cinematic achievement, in the future.
The humour in ESB was...well what can I say, it didn't sound scripted.
The love scene between Anakin and Padme was too forced compared to Han and Leia's.
The Vader and Luke scenes "had more soul" to it than the Vader and OB ones.
The battles in ESB felt original, fresh, nothing like that done before.
IMO the droids of ROTS really dampened my opinion of the movie. I groaned in dismay when I saw GL had tried to insert more comedy into the movie to level out the dark factor.
By ROTS we knew the storyline of the saga. We had become accustomed to CGI. There was nothing really new awaiting us, and we knew that.
The acting, you have to admit, was rather stale compared to all the OT.
I'll give ROTS credit for its space battle, it was quite humble IMO. Not too overblown.
But the rest...well, I've said my bit.
I guess for me it all comes down to " the best moments"
In Empire: 1. Vader contacting the emporer, then wipe to yoda being revealed, particularly where he says "much anger in him, like his father"
2.Luke in the cave
3.Luke getting a vision and acting rashly
4.The end lightsaber fight is a superb 15min.
In Sith: 1.Dooku getting killed
2.The scene of Anakin in the coucil chamber "take a seat!"
3.The opera scene (mostly all scenes of ian and hayden)
4.anakin crying in the chamber as he choses to intervene
5. mace v.s. sidious
6.the purge
7. anakin wiping out the seperatists/birth of the empire
8. yoda v.s. sidious
9. the end lightsaber fight is a superb 15 min.
10.(the tie-breaker) birth of vader/a new hope
I realize that empire is smoother, has more depth, and will always be thought of as number one, but as I look at the saga as a whole, my fave stuff as a kid (hoth, asteroid chase, han/leah) has changed, and my fave stuff has more to do with connecting the story.
Likewise, i couldn't have given a cold crap about the space battle, kasshyk/chewie or grevious in Sith.
Its close but I go with SITH
for the record: 1.rots
2.empire
3.anh
4.tpm
5.clones/the last 45min. of jedi 😆
Not that anybody actually cares but I think the whole underlining story of ROTS was more interesting but just poorly directed wich is absolutely not the case in ESB.
ROTS had the potential to be the best but every event that happened (wich were quite a few) followed each other too fast and sloppy making the movie chaotic and diminishing the power of the scenes.
To me, ESB is far superior because of the extreme building up to the climax and horribly dramatic ending of it and of course the smooth and well directed scenes following each other..