Response to your first point Davey, this is also like the type of example I mentioned, the good guys beating the bad guys. Unless it is shown in a cutscene what exactly Tidus did to Jecht, since I believe they fight only in gameplay, we can't really say Tidus is overall more powerful, but we can say canon-wise that he has the ability to overcome Jecht. Since you can beat someone does not mean you're necessarily better overall.
Originally posted by FWahMaN
Response to your first point Davey, this is also like the type of example I mentioned, the good guys beating the bad guys. Unless it is shown in a cutscene what exactly Tidus did to Jecht, since I believe they fight only in gameplay, we can't really say Tidus is overall more powerful, but we can say canon-wise that he has the ability to overcome Jecht. Since you can beat someone does not mean you're necessarily better overall.
Its a pretty good indicator. A cutscene is not required to show that someone is stronger than another.
Take, hypothetically, a character who defeats another repeatedly all throughout the game, but never does so in a cutscene. Does that mean that we can't say that character is stronger? Of course not, the simple fact is he defeated his opponent every time. I'd say that makes him stronger. A cutscene is not necessarily required to understand when one character is stronger than the other.
What can normal Jecht do exactly? He wasn't really shown doing anything in X and all of his move in dissidia stem from him being a badass so they aren't really moves. We do know that along with being enhanced Zack is also a talented fighter that took on an army of Shinra troop and even took out two Soldier 1st class officers.(Genesis fight counts right)
I think Zack would do well against Braska's Final Aeon: might not solo it but seeing as how he can break the damage limit and Hp limit too why wouldn't he do well.
1. Yeah I don't care about normal Jecht as I said, never played Dissidia and anything he's done in Dissidia beats what he did in X. We don't see what he did because his journey was already over and we see vague flashbacks of his journey with Braska. X was Tidus' story.
2. The fact you brought up HP is what'll keep me out of this thread (almost...) please do not bring up health and damage points. Wakka (lol your username is wakka 3x...) deals 10 times more damage than any FF7 or 8 character, if I recall, as those games deal a max of 9,999 DP. Wakka and any X character can deal up to 10 times that much and you should kind of already know by now...what would happen in a real fight should not depend on these silly numbers. They don't mean anything. Wakka throwing a ball at you would not deal more than maybe 40 damage in real life since that'll just make you go "oww". Mechanics can say Auron's sword swipe deals less damage than Wakka throwing a ball at you...we know this is impossible.
My username is supposed to be a reference to the sound pacman makes when he goes around a board. I detest Wakka. (ironic eh) but Zack kind of beat the crap out of anything that got in his way.(except Sephiroth) Even when he was getting shot by Shinra troop, he was still kicking ass.
I was just using numbers to even the odds but I guess that was a bad idea.
Originally posted by FWahMaN
1. Yeah I don't care about normal Jecht as I said, never played Dissidia and anything he's done in Dissidia beats what he did in X. We don't see what he did because his journey was already over and we see vague flashbacks of his journey with Braska. X was Tidus' story.
That's what I was saying. We don't know what Jecht is capable of. If there wasn't a line in the game that indicated such, we wouldn't even know he used a sword.
Dissidia can't show anything because it's not an accurate representation of the characters abilities. They had to make everyone around the same strength in order for it to work as a fighting game.
There is no right answer to this question I don't think. We can't know for sure.
Originally posted by wakkawakkawakka
Well since the problem is making Jecht an actual opponent, why don't we just use his Final Aeon phase instead. Since there is knowledge of his abilities in this form it would be an actual opponent Zack could fight. However who would win is unknown at the moment.
Jecht in his final Aeon form would win, hands down. I'm not sure Cloud could beat him in that form, let alone Zack.
Originally posted by TacDavey
Maybe, maybe not. We still don't know what he's really like outside of Dissidia, and that's not very accurate.
So you are not 100% sure if Zack can defeat Jecht but you are 100% sure that Cloud can beat Squall? Why? Because at how Squall fights in the intro of his game? I saw normal people from our world performing better than Squall in the intro... Duh, that's illogical. yawn
Zack still wins against Final Aeon Jecht. The guy manhandled Genesis Avatar, also a very powerful giant enemy that was once a good guy, and defeated him without showing any exertion afterward, he even defeated a newly restored Genesis not a minute later.
The fact of the matter is that Final Aeon type enemies are nothing new or difficult for the SOLDIER legend.
Originally posted by GrieverSquall
So you are not 100% sure if Zack can defeat Jecht but you are 100% sure that Cloud can beat Squall? Why? Because at how Squall fights in the intro of his game? I saw normal people from our world performing better than Squall in the intro... Duh, that's illogical. yawn
Squall has a whole game where we see what he is capable of. Jecht has NO examples of what he can do. THAT'S why we don't know. We never see him do anything. Ever. The same cannot be said of Squall, and I gave you plenty of reasons in the Could vs Squall debate as to why I think Cloud tops Squall.
Originally posted by fascistcrusader
Zack still wins against Final Aeon Jecht. The guy manhandled Genesis Avatar, also a very powerful giant enemy that was once a good guy, and defeated him without showing any exertion afterward, he even defeated a newly restored Genesis not a minute later.The fact of the matter is that Final Aeon type enemies are nothing new or difficult for the SOLDIER legend.
Indeed? Do you think Zack could beat sin? I think people are giving Zack way too much credit. He's strong to be sure, but he's not a god.
Originally posted by wakkawakkawakka
Zack could just take Yuna with him, although it wouldn't be Zack vs Jecht anymore would it. Quick question. If Zack beat Angeal and Cloud has pure jenova cells(S-cell or what not), wouldn't that make Cloud above Zack?(in terms of power anyway)
Yes, absolutely. Cloud is obviously stronger than Zack, though many fans of Zack are loath to admit it. Easy example, Zack lost to Sephiroth, Cloud beat Sephiroth.
Originally posted by fascistcrusader
Jecht never beat Sin, seeing as how it was alive and kicking for Tidus and pals. Beating the Final Aeon is not even close to synomous with being able to fight Sin. Zack would defeat Braska's Final Aeon Jecht handily but that doesn't mean he could defeat Sin itself.
[FFX Spoilers]
You don't remember the game? Sin was defeated, and then comes back after ten years reincarnated by the Aeon who defeated it. Jecht was Sin, because Jecht defeated Sin.
No, Jecht was the FInal Aeon, he functioned as the heart of Sin but he wasn't Sin itself. Tidus and pals would have been completely obliberated if they tried to battle Sin the same way they battled Braska's Final Aeon, they are not the same being. That's why Sin can destroy cities and use gigagraviton but Jecht has nothing even close to this level of power.