A Decent Versus Thread...

Originally posted by Sorgo
You mean the different form that almost killed Anakin several times during their Final duel? Oh, okay then.

No, it would not be a bigger assumption. It would be the same, being as we haven't seen him in the masses. Saying that he is poor or better are both the same level. Don't say mine is bigger to back up the other Assumption. Not very good.

He lost because he used that form, he should have won. He has not mastered anything besides Form II Mastering a form is incredibly hard, and he wouldn't have had any reasons to master any other form.

And yes it would be, because what we know of Dooku seems to suggest that he isn't good in masses instead of the other way around.

I could assume Anakin has some "chosen one" ability that can instakill a Jedi. But I've never seen it. By that logic, it would be an equal assumption to say he can't as to say he could.

What we have seen takes precedence over what we haven't seen.

Originally posted by Fishy
He lost because he used that form, he should have won. He has not mastered anything besides Form II Mastering a form is incredibly hard, and he wouldn't have had any reasons to master any other form.

And yes it would be, because what we know of Dooku seems to suggest that he isn't good in masses instead of the other way around.

He used the Form on purpose, because he wanted to lose, but he didn't want to die. His plans got changed on him.

What you know? We have seen him fight two people at the same time. That could possibly lean him to being good against the masses, it wouldn't make that assumption worse.

Originally posted by Illustrious
I could assume Anakin has some "chosen one" ability that can instakill a Jedi. But I've never seen it. By that logic, it would be an equal assumption to say he can't as to say he could.

What we have seen takes precedence over what we haven't seen.

By that logic, it would be an equal assumption to say he can't as to say he could. Now what the hell did i say in my post before this one? Christ....

He used the Form on purpose, because he wanted to lose, but he didn't want to die. His plans got changed on him.

What you know? We have seen him fight two people at the same time. That could possibly lean him to being good against the masses, it wouldn't make that assumption worse.

So you are right now suggesting, that he used a form he MASTERED hoping to lose? Of course not, why would he do that? He wouldn't have any reason to use a form he mastered if he wanted to lose, he could have kept fighting the same way. Fact is there is absolutely nothing to suggest he has mastered more then one form. Absolutely nothing.

And two people and masses are a huge difference, I can beat up two five year old children but I could never beat up a hundred of them at the same time. See the difference? His style isn't meant to fight several people and it isn't meant to deflect blaster bolts either. A few won't proof a problem but hundreds, that would.

Now Obi Wan on the other hand excels in it.

Originally posted by Fishy
And yes it would be, because what we know of Dooku seems to suggest that he isn't good in masses instead of the other way around.

Erm...

Dooku survived the Battle of Galidraan that was basically a "streetwar" between Jedi and Mandalorians and half of the Jedi died in i while only two Mandalorians survived. So...why should Dooku go down against normal people or battle droids if he can obviously survive a battle with dozens of Mandalorian involved ?

I'm not saying he would go down, i'm just saying that with his style he would probably take a longer time then Obi Wan would, who could move faster through the masses because of his lightsaber style, deflecting blaster bolts is going to be useful here. Now of course Dooku could use the force, but that could leave you open and that might proof fatal if he does it at the wrong time. He would survive, but I don't think he would be as fast as Obi Wan.

Originally posted by Fishy
So you are right now suggesting, that he used a form he MASTERED hoping to lose? Of course not, why would he do that? He wouldn't have any reason to use a form he mastered if he wanted to lose, he could have kept fighting the same way. Fact is there is absolutely nothing to suggest he has mastered more then one form. Absolutely nothing.

And two people and masses are a huge difference, I can beat up two five year old children but I could never beat up a hundred of them at the same time. See the difference? His style isn't meant to fight several people and it isn't meant to deflect blaster bolts either. A few won't proof a problem but hundreds, that would.

Now Obi Wan on the other hand excels in it.

He didn't use Makashi during their fight. Do you not get it yet? He used a different Form, which obviously proves that he knows more than one Form.

Maybe he did master the form he used. How in the hell would you know?

If he used a different Form, and could still use it to hold off a Jedi Master and a Jedi Knight at the same time, he has to have some degree in skill with the other Form, Correct?

I can beat up two five year old children but I could never beat up a hundred of them at the same time. See the difference?

No, The Analogy mean't moot and i don't have relevant proof to faction whether you can kick two children's asses. For one, Obi Wan and Anakin aren't children and they could kick Dooku's ass in a fist fight and if two children have Lightsabers, how do you know you will win? Huh?

The Analogy is way off to the circumstances of what we are talking about.

Originally posted by Nai Fohl
Erm...

Dooku survived the Battle of Galidraan that was basically a "streetwar" between Jedi and Mandalorians and half of the Jedi died in i while only two Mandalorians survived. So...why should Dooku go down against normal people or battle droids if he can obviously survive a battle with dozens of Mandalorian involved ?

Padme survived the battle of Geonosis, does that mean she's awesome at blocking blasters? Not necessarily. We have to know the circumstances.

Is it possible Dooku knows other forms and can use Soresu yes, but proof isn't there, where we have it for Obi-Wan.

He didn't use Makashi during their fight. Do you not get it yet? He used a different Form, which obviously proves that he knows more than one Form.

I never said he didn't know more then one form.

Maybe he did master the form he used. How in the hell would you know?

He lost didn't he?

If he used a different Form, and could still use it to hold off a Jedi Master and a Jedi Knight at the same time, he has to have some degree in skill with the other Form, Correct?

I could be mistaking but he didn't use that form from the beginning and he used the force more in the beginning of the fight.

No, The Analogy mean't moot and i don't have relevant proof to faction whether you can kick two children's asses. For one, Obi Wan and Anakin aren't children and they could kick Dooku's ass in a fist fight and if two children have Lightsabers, how do you know you will win? Huh?

The Analogy is way off to the circumstances of what we are talking about.

What kind of stupid thing to say is that, Dooku owned Obi Wan and Anakin they were like children compared to him.. And of course I could beat up two five year olds. And why the hell would they have lightsabers? And why wouldn't Dooku and Obi and Anakin have lightsabers?

And what the hell does that have to do with.

Just because you can defeat two people, doesn't mean you can defeat a hundred. Its as simple as that.

Originally posted by Fishy
I'm not saying he would go down, i'm just saying that with his style he would probably take a longer time then Obi Wan would, who could move faster through the masses because of his lightsaber style, deflecting blaster bolts is going to be useful here. Now of course Dooku could use the force, but that could leave you open and that might proof fatal if he does it at the wrong time. He would survive, but I don't think he would be as fast as Obi Wan.

He doesn't even need to use his lightsaber. Imagine a street filled with people and droids (who are fighting each other). Now Dooku steps in uses a massive force push (we saw how far he could throw Obi-Wan while kicking Anakin away) and clears the entire street. He could also use lightning or simply jump to the top of a building and jump from rooftop to rooftop.

Fact that matters (for me): Dooku will simply manage to get everything that is in his way out of his way without caring much how he does it while Obi-Wan will try to not hurt / kill people what will make him slower than Dooku. It's like two people running over a street filled with insects: One likes insects very much and doesn't want to hurt them while the other simply don't cares - who will cross the street faster ?

Originally posted by Fishy
I never said he didn't know more then one form.

He lost didn't he?

I could be mistaking but he didn't use that form from the beginning and he used the force more in the beginning of the fight.

What kind of stupid thing to say is that, Dooku owned Obi Wan and Anakin they were like children compared to him.. And of course I could beat up two five year olds. And why the hell would they have lightsabers? And why wouldn't Dooku and Obi and Anakin have lightsabers?

And what the hell does that have to do with.

Just because you can defeat two people, doesn't mean you can defeat a hundred. Its as simple as that.

You're missing the point. Dooku fighting the two isn't near what you would do if you were to fight two children.

He lost didn't he?

Yup. His wrists were pretty much grabbed by someone who is physically stronger than him. HMM....

It wasn't Dooku's plan to get cut up. Watch the fight again. You would be suprised how many times he had a chance to take Anakin out and he wasn't even using Form II.

I could be mistaking but he didn't use that form from the beginning and he used the force more in the beginning of the fight.

He used only a little bit of Form II during the beginning, because he was fighting two opponents.

The Force? Uh, no. He used it to throw Obi Wan under a large platform, which was after he used his SUPA SITH BACK KICK to throw Anakin into a wall. Do you ever wonder why Dooku didn't just leave Obi Wan when he hit the holster of the platform? He had the chance to fry Anakins ass with Lightning while Anakin was crying over his scrapped knee on the ground. Hmm.... Maybe he didn't want Anakin dead during the fight.... hmm....

You could be right, but it would depend on how the street looks, I mean a city during a civil war would have a lot of ruined buildings and people hiding in the ruins, a force push probably won't clear the street because not a lot of people will be in the street.

Okay. Since it's pretty much down to Obi-Wan or Dooku, let's open up the voting.

You are voting for who DOES NOT make it to the pod, aka eliminated.

I'll start:

Obi-Wan 0
Dooku 1

Copy the tally when you make a new post.

Dooku dies.

Agreed, Illustrious. I want debate, but back and forth on the same topics let's avoid that. I'm sensing a lot of division here and we need to move on. My vote is AGAINST Dooku, for many reasons I'm willing to list but not willing to argue at this time (I AM at work right now..) so it's now two against Dooku, zero against Obi-wan as of my posting.

Originally posted by Darth_Janus
Agreed, Illustrious. I want debate, but back and forth on the same topics let's avoid that. I'm sensing a lot of division here and we need to move on. My vote is AGAINST Dooku, for many reasons I'm willing to list but not willing to argue at this time (I AM at work right now..) so it's now two against Dooku, zero against Obi-wan as of my posting.

Well.... One against Obi Wan, actually.

Against Dooku= 3
Against Obi-Wan= 1

Obi-Wan 1
Dooku 3

That's how it stands as of this second.

EDIT: damn you Janus.

I am hella fast.

When no customers are calling.

I'm letting the vote continue until for about another two hours, maybe two and a half. It's rounded up about 5 PM eastern. At 7 or 7:30 I'll write up Round Two.