Most overrated artist?

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
Whoa, you're so cool for saying that with such apathy!

I didn't imply anything, though now I will openly say I think you have some stupid views on music. Especially to say it's a mediocre album with mediocre songs. That said, it's all opinion regarding the music itself, so you could say the same about me. However, I don't like it because the masses do, or critics for that matter, I don't even think it's THEIR best album, let alone the best ever, but that's no reason to dislike it. You keep bringing up critics and masses, and I can't help but feel they play a part in your rating of it, which WOULD be stupid.

Well as long as you realize that you can be accused of having ‘stupid views’ on music. Oh yes, I CAN SAY the same about you, but I’d rather not point out the obvious. It’s a mediocre album, that’s exactly what it is to me, if you don’t like too bad.

I never accused you of liking Ok computer because other people do. I didn’t say I disliked the album because other people think it so great. Actually I heard the album way before the hype that’s why it surprised me to see how much people thought of it.

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri

There isn't just one "The masses.". Many people, many critics and everywhere in between, all vote and praise different albums. Radiohead get nominated for these things nowhere NEAR as much as The Beatles and Dylan, who get voted for by rep more than anything. Radiohead have only just started getting that kind of attention. I watched a show where OK Comp "won" best album ever, and it happened to be all fellow musicians commenting on it. Like it or not, musically, it's praised for a reason. As for it not being innovative, find me an album or band that have made an album like it during that time, after, or before.

Innovation doesn't just mean being the first.

Innovation means exactly what it does, don’t try to alter it’s meaning so it suits you. They are not innovative they are not anything great. You’re entitled to you opinions, like I am. So what if it’s praised by musicians? There are tons of shitty musicians out there, who praised it? I’d like to know.

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri

Tool are not gods, there's just a few people here who own one CD ever, and it's by their favourite band, so they can't say much else.

Musically, whether you think they're good or not is up to you, in terms of what you hear, but they are amazing musicians. Again, not the most original, but innovation doesn't mean original all the time. Find me a band doing what they do, right now. .

First off, no shit, Tool are not gods, far from. But people here, like you, can’t stand the thought of people not thinking they are anything great. Don’t get pissed because I think that Tool is repetitive and that they regurgitate riffs and whole songs.
Also, I know whether I think they are ‘good’ is up to me., I think tool is ‘good’ but nothing more, it’s not my fault you think that you have a refined musical aesthetic taste(I think your musical taste is primitive if you think Tool and Radio head are so great, but that’s my opinion, yes?). It’s ok think greatly of them all you want, there are other musicians who would think differently, not everybody thinks Tool or Radiohead is awesome.

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri

You obviously cannot.

As I said, if you walked out to almost anyone here, random bystanders, and asked if they knew the band Tool, you'd most likely be met with a blank face. How are they overrated if, in a lot of countries, they're still generally under the radar?

You obviously don’t know how much the popularity of Tool has risen in the past few years. Tool isn’t an underground band like you think, it’s obvious by all the assholes here who think that are so great. If you ask anybody off the street, I am sure they would know who Tool was, Tool is mainstream rock, sorry to bring that to you attention. Tool is generally under the radar in other countries? Where did you get that from? You have no proof. They definitely are overrated here in the states.

I suggest you stop trying to turn this thread into an argument of any type. I stated my opinions if you don’t like them, then shut up. You don’t see me bothering you about how ‘stupid’ you are to me.

Alpha, I don't really see where you're going. It seems to me as if you think you're the sole person able to judge what bands are (not) overrated. You think 2D is stupid because he considers OK Computer just 'decent.'

Also, you keep going on about masses and how they don't play a part. Well, usually a band is considered overrated because the masses flock to them, and a select group of people don't understand why.

You bash U2, but praise Radiohead. Everything you're saying seems to conflict.

If one guy from Idaho thought Bad to Rights (local Idaho band) was the greatest band that's ever played music, and no one outside of maybe 200 people had heard of them, they wouldn't be considered 'overrated.'

Also, Radiohead are hardly original, as Thom Yorke has stated countless times. The influences are broad, yes (but, honestly, not that broad, confined mostly to post-punk, electronica, new wave, and no wave), but that hardly makes OK Computer (or any other Radiohead album, for that matter) original.

You asked for examples of original material. I can name a few, but just for a start, here's three: Teenage Jesus and the Jerks (before), Throbbing Gristle (sort of during), Neon Blonde (after).

As to who I think is the most overrated band of all time?
Radiohead 😆
Or the Ramones
Or U2
Or Sex Pistols

Remember, everyone, it's all SUBJECTIVE.

Originally posted by enjoyyrworries
Alpha, I don't really see where you're going. It seems to me as if you think you're the sole person able to judge what bands are (not) overrated.

Remember, everyone, it's all [B]SUBJECTIVE. [/B]

Thanks for realizing this. For a second, I thought everybody here was pimped by AC.

Oasis, The Killers and Razorlight.

Originally posted by 2D_MASTER
Thanks for realizing this. For a second, I thought everybody here was pimped by AC.

No problem.

By the way, I saw TOOL live and the whole time I was hoping a bullet would ram through my skull just to balance out the mind-numbing bullshit that I was being subjected to.

Originally posted by 2D_MASTER
Well as long as you realize that you can be accused of having ‘stupid views’ on music. Oh yes, I CAN SAY the same about you, but I’d rather not point out the obvious. It’s a mediocre album, that’s exactly what it is to me, if you don’t like too bad.

I don't care what you think of it, I'm telling you my opinion on your opinion. You have the problem.

Originally posted by 2D_MASTER
I never accused you of liking Ok computer because other people do. I didn’t say I disliked the album because other people think it so great. Actually I heard the album way before the hype that’s why it surprised me to see how much people thought of it.

Fair enough.

Originally posted by 2D_MASTER
Innovation means exactly what it does, don’t try to alter it’s meaning so it suits you. They are not innovative they are not anything great. You’re entitled to you opinions, like I am. So what if it’s praised by musicians? There are tons of shitty musicians out there, who praised it? I’d like to know.

It's not JUST about being the first to do something, is it? Otherwise there would be no innovators outside of the very first anything. Use a bit of logic.

Michael Stipe, Maynard James Keenan, Gavin Hayes of Dredg, Tori Amos to name a couple.

Originally posted by 2D_MASTER
First off, no shit, Tool are not gods, far from. But people here, like you, can’t stand the thought of people not thinking they are anything great. Don’t get pissed because I think that Tool is repetitive and that they regurgitate riffs and whole songs.

I don't give a shit if you think they're the worst band on Earth. I'll tell you I think you are wrong, and I will disagree, but ultimately, I couldn't care any less than I do. I like their music, you don't, that's as far as it goes, cos it's all opinion.

However, saying they regurgitate riffs and whole songs is actually idiotic, because it's quite clearly not what they do. Say what you like about how you perceive the music, but that is what it is. You hearing it a certain way doesn't mean THEY are doing something wrong, or anything else. They are factually outstanding musicians, Danny Carey is one of the world's most hailed drummers, even by the likes of Lenny White and Dave Lombardo.

Originally posted by 2D_MASTER
Also, I know whether I think they are ‘good’ is up to me., I think tool is ‘good’ but nothing more, it’s not my fault you think that you have a refined musical aesthetic taste(I think your musical taste is primitive if you think Tool and Radio head are so great, but that’s my opinion, yes?). It’s ok think greatly of them all you want, there are other musicians who would think differently, not everybody thinks Tool or Radiohead is awesome.

Point?

Originally posted by 2D_MASTER
You obviously don’t know how much the popularity of Tool has risen in the past few years. Tool isn’t an underground band like you think, it’s obvious by all the assholes here who think that are so great. If you ask anybody off the street, I am sure they would know who Tool was, Tool is mainstream rock, sorry to bring that to you attention. Tool is generally under the radar in other countries? Where did you get that from? You have no proof. They definitely are overrated here in the states.

Who said anything about them being underground? I said they aren't very known in the mainstream here, and they aren't, really. Maybe more so now, but you still couldn't go out and say to a random person "Know the band Tool?" and they would likely say yes.

Tool are far from being a "mainstream rock" band, and that's why you shouldn't catagorise, because you don't know how.

Also; Don't say "I'm sure...", and then follow it by accusing me of having no proof. I have proof, the fact that anyone besides music-involved friends I have asked about Tool, have never heard of them. Or if they have, it's through me or people they know that coincidentally like Tool. They're never in the charts, never on TV.

They aren't "definitely" overrated, as if it's a fact. They are definitely more well known there, they also have an intense fanbase around Australia, but they aren't some mega known band like YOU believe, just because you are from the States.

Originally posted by 2D_MASTER
I suggest you stop trying to turn this thread into an argument of any type. I stated my opinions if you don’t like them, then shut up. You don’t see me bothering you about how ‘stupid’ you are to me.

You don't like my opinion on your opinion, so you are the one who should shut up. All you do is get into debates then whine when anyone replies.

Originally posted by 2D_MASTER
Thanks for realizing this. For a second, I thought everybody here was pimped by AC.

Nah, just you. Now go make me some money, and wear a Tool shirt, with "I am a..." stitched above it.

-AC

Originally posted by enjoyyrworries
Alpha, I don't really see where you're going. It seems to me as if you think you're the sole person able to judge what bands are (not) overrated. You think 2D is stupid because he considers OK Computer just 'decent.'

I don't think that, at all. I don't think he's stupid cos he called it decent, I said I think he holds a stupid view for calling it mediocre.

Originally posted by enjoyyrworries
Also, you keep going on about masses and how they don't play a part. Well, usually a band is considered overrated because the masses flock to them, and a select group of people don't understand why.

Precisely, and that's the case with Tool. Tool, like it or not, are a band you do need to "get". They're not a tap-your-foot band, they require attention. People deny this for one of many reasons, usually they:

A) Are jealous because they feel they're missing something.

B) Don't see what there is to "get", then jump to the illogical conclusion that there must be nothing, simply because they don't get it.

Then they like to turn the above explanation around as if it's untrue. There are many people who honestly just do not like Tool. It's not a matter of not being smart, they just don't like the band, but it's usually people who haven't got the brains that go around saying they are just a normal band.

Originally posted by enjoyyrworries
You bash U2, but praise Radiohead. Everything you're saying seems to conflict.

How is that conflicting? I personally think U2 are bland and nothing special at all. I don't go around acting like it's a fact, or there's nothing I'm not seeing. It's not always a case of intellect, it's a case, sometimes, of; "This just doesn't appeal to me.", and U2 are that band for me.

Originally posted by enjoyyrworries
If one guy from Idaho thought Bad to Rights (local Idaho band) was the greatest band that's ever played music, and no one outside of maybe 200 people had heard of them, they wouldn't be considered 'overrated.'

Right?

Originally posted by enjoyyrworries
Also, Radiohead are hardly original, as Thom Yorke has stated countless times. The influences are broad, yes (but, honestly, not that broad, confined mostly to post-punk, electronica, new wave, and no wave), but that hardly makes OK Computer (or any other Radiohead album, for that matter) original.

Who said they were the most original band? I said they're innovative, cos they are. They do, and were doing, things that aren't exactly mainsteam stuff. Nobody said "First band to...". Innovation doesn't always mean "First". Hence why there are always new and innovative guitarists, they aren't necessarily doing anything new, but doing old things in new ways.

Originally posted by enjoyyrworries
You asked for examples of original material. I can name a few, but just for a start, here's three: Teenage Jesus and the Jerks (before), Throbbing Gristle (sort of during), Neon Blonde (after).

Neon Blonde? If it's the Neon Blonde I'm thinking of: Hahahaha.

Originally posted by enjoyyrworries
No problem.

By the way, I saw TOOL live and the whole time I was hoping a bullet would ram through my skull just to balance out the mind-numbing bullshit that I was being subjected to.

See, now that's silly, because it's hard to deny that they have a phenomenal live show, regardless of whether or not you like the music.

-AC

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri

You don't like my opinion on your opinion, so you are the one who should shut up. All you do is get into debates then whine when anyone replies.

-AC

Well you're the one bitching here, you idiot. You're the one who can't stand somebody pointing out what a hypocrite you are, and that people have thier own opinions. Look, I'm done trying to be logical with you. You stick to you opinions, and I'll continue thinking you're the most illogical and hypocritical person on these forums. You don’t know when to quit. no wonder why you got banned.

Originally posted by 2D_MASTER
Well you're the one bitching here, you idiot. You're the one who can't stand somebody pointing out what a hypocrite you are, and that people have thier own opinions. Look, I'm done trying to be logical with you. You stick to you opinions, and I'll continue thinking you're the most illogical and hypocritical person on these forums. You don’t know when to quit. no wonder why you got banned.

Here we go again with you. Where did I ever say I can't stand anyone having opinions? I clearly pointed out how subjective the debate was at the start, and I never said you were wrong about any of your preferences, cos you aren't.

Nothing I've said is hypocritical, once again, you're just another person who, in failing to debate me, turns the focus on me rather than what I'm saying. You've got a lot of growing up to do, kid.

-AC

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
Precisely, and that's the case with Tool. Tool, like it or not, are a band you do need to "get". They're not a tap-your-foot band, they require attention. People deny this for one of many reasons, usually they:

A) Are jealous because they feel they're missing something.

B) Don't see what there is to "get", then jump to the illogical conclusion that there must be nothing, simply because they don't get it.

Then they like to turn the above explanation around as if it's untrue. There are many people who honestly just do not like Tool. It's not a matter of not being smart, they just don't like the band, but it's usually people who haven't got the brains that go around saying they are just a normal band.

It sounds to me that you can't handle people who "get" Tool and don't like them anyway. I do enjoy a couple of Tool songs, but it's silly to say that they have some underlying, deep thing to them and their music that most people don't "get" and therefore those people don't have "the brains".

This is exactly what I'm talking about when I say that Tool is an overrated band. It's because Tool elitists believe that there's something to "get" just because their songs change time signatures a million times or because they focus on issues that most bands nowadays don't bother to focus on. Just because a band has a 15 minute song doesn't mean there's something to "get". It's just a longer waste of my time.

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
Here we go again with you. Where did I ever say I can't stand anyone having opinions? I clearly pointed out how subjective the debate was at the start, and I never said you were wrong about any of your preferences, cos you aren't.

Nothing I've said is hypocritical, once again, you're just another person who, in failing to debate me, turns the focus on me rather than what I'm saying. You've got a lot of growing up to do, kid.

-AC

No you need to grow up. I'm pointing out how double standard you are. You're always talking about how things are 'subjective' yet you call me 'stupid' for not liking Radiohead or Tool as much as you do. Think about that, then realize how that notion and that action (your action) are not consistent.

Originally posted by PONG_MASTER
It sounds to me that you can't handle people who "get" Tool and don't like them anyway. I do enjoy a couple of Tool songs, but it's silly to say that they have some underlying, deep thing to them and their music that most people don't "get" and therefore those people don't have "the brains".

Did I not just say this?: "There are many people who honestly just do not like Tool. It's not a matter of not being smart, they just don't like the band, but it's usually people who haven't got the brains that go around saying they are just a normal band.".

So clearly it has nothing to do with me being incapable of handling anything.

Also, there is deep meaning behind almost every Tool song, and their lyrics too. You don't see it? Then don't go around saying there isn't anything. Don't assume you "get" everything, and if you don't see anything, there must be nothing. You ARE human, there ARE things that are above you. There are things in life that I don't understand, but others do, it doesn't mean they're seeing things that aren't there. It's arrogance to suggest otherwise.

Originally posted by PONG_MASTER
This is exactly what I'm talking about when I say that Tool is an overrated band. It's because Tool elitists believe that there's something to "get" just because their songs change time signatures a million times or because they focus on issues that most bands nowadays don't bother to focus on. Just because a band has a 15 minute song doesn't mean there's something to "get". It's just a longer waste of my time.

See, THAT is ignorance. THAT is stupidity. I don't think their songs have meaning because they change time signatures, I think they're a technically brilliant group of musicians because of what they do with their instruments. It has nothing to do with the meaning in their songs.

It's a longer waste of YOUR time, therefore there's nothing to get? THAT is arrogance and blatant ignorance.

Most bands don't focus on the issues and subjects Tool do because not all bands are smart enough, and the reason there IS something to "get" that not everyone will see is because they deal with very esoteric subjects. Things that the general public don't necessarily know.

You don't know about what they're talking about, and if you don't study the subject matter, you won't understand it. I have, and I do, as do many, so I get what they're saying.

Many people who like Tool can't make sense of the lyrics, cos they don't have interest in those subjects. It's ignorant to say "I don't see it, so there's nothing.". You're being an idiot.

If I wrote a song about things I know 5 people like, and let 500 people listen to it, it doesn't mean there's no meaning, it means the rest won't get it cos they're not interested.

Originally posted by 2D_MASTER
No you need to grow up. I'm pointing out how double standard you are. You're always talking about how things are 'subjective' yet you call me 'stupid' for not liking Radiohead or Tool as much as you do. Think about that, then realize how that notion and that action (your action) are not consistent.

I never called you stupid, as clarified in my reply to the other person. I said you hold a stupid view in my opinion.

In general, because of the way you act, I do think you're an idiot. It has nothing to do with subjective music taste. Get a life.

-AC

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri

I never called you stupid, as clarified in my reply to the other person. I said you hold a stupid view in my opinion.

In general, because of the way you act, I do think you're an idiot. It has nothing to do with subjective music taste. Get a life.

-AC

You're a idiot. You only use the word 'subjective' when it suits you. You a need to ‘get a life’ AND probably need to get out more. You seriously need to STOP acting like you make sense, nobody here is blind enough to think you are intelligent, logical or knowledgeable. Stop fooling yourself.

EDIT: If you didn’t call me 'stupid', Please keep your insignificant and pitiful OPINIONS to yourself. You don't see me constanly telling you what a idiot I think you are.

Originally posted by 2D_MASTER
You're a idiot. You only use the word 'subjective' when it suits you. You a need to ‘get a life’ AND probably need to get out more. You seriously need to STOP acting like you make sense, nobody here is blind enough to think you are intelligent, logical or knowledgeable. Stop fooling yourself.

You're the one getting abusive, personal and aiming the debate at me cos I trashed yours.

Stop focusing on me, I appreciate you dedicating the time and all, but focus on the debate. I appreciate the compliments too.

Now, have you got an opposing argument? Or are you done?

Originally posted by 2D_MASTER
You don't see me constanly telling you what a idiot I think you are.

Originally posted by 2D_MASTER
You're a idiot.

First: Admit the hypocrisy or never call anybody out, ever.

Second: I'll post my opinions whenever and wherever I wish. Don't like it? Leave. You won't stop posting yours, will you? Shut up then.

-AC

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
[B]I don't think that, at all. I don't think he's stupid cos he called it decent, I said I think he holds a stupid view for calling it mediocre.

Right, so...he's stupid because he thinks OK Computer is mediocre. What did I miss? And don't try that tired bullshit where you say 'I DIDN'T SAY HE WAS STUPID, I SAID HIS IDEA WAS STUPID.' That's a cop-out. Man up to what you say. Anyone that has different taste in music than you is...stupid, or at least their views are. They're not different, they're stupid.

Precisely, and that's the case with Tool. Tool, like it or not, are a band you do need to "get". They're not a tap-your-foot band, they require attention. People deny this for one of many reasons, usually they:

A) Are jealous because they feel they're missing something.

B) Don't see what there is to "get", then jump to the illogical conclusion that there must be nothing, simply because they don't get it.

Then they like to turn the above explanation around as if it's untrue. There are many people who honestly just do not like Tool. It's not a matter of not being smart, they just don't like the band, but it's usually people who haven't got the brains that go around saying they are just a normal band.

This is personally my favorite part of your cow fodder babble. Anyone that doesn't listen to to TOOL is missing a few too many brain cells. As if TOOL is not only made up some intellectual giants, but also make music that only their own 'kind' can 'get.' Or, the other option, I'm jealous because I don't understand it. Excuse me, but what the **** are you talking about? You apparently don't like Neon Blonde, but I'd argue that's because you're just too intellectually bankrupt to admit you don't 'get' it. But maybe you're right. Maybe I just don't understand the deep, philosophical, metaphorical meaning behind this sexist shit:

"If you knock me down I'll come back running,
knock you down,
it won't be long now
All the way in.
All the way.
Take it up higher.
4 degrees warmer.
Give in now
and let me in.
You'll like this in
Don't pull it out.
It brings us closer than
dying and cancer and crying.
Come on .
You can take it all.
Just like that."
-"4 Degrees"

Yeah, *****, see how much you can take. I don't 'get' you, TOOL.

Or maybe it's just mindless dribble for people who don't have the energy or patience to find real metal. Oh, I'm sorry, progressive rock. Honestly, I'm glad I don't 'get' what TOOL is trying to do, or I'd be thrown in with the same group you seem to be in.

How is that conflicting? I personally think U2 are bland and nothing special at all. I don't go around acting like it's a fact, or there's nothing I'm not seeing. It's not always a case of intellect, it's a case, sometimes, of; "This just doesn't appeal to me.", and U2 are that band for me.

Maybe you don't act like U2 being bland is a fact, but you sure as hell are able to cope with telling 2D that he's stupid for his opinion of Radiohead, and that I'm a mindless drone for not understand what TOOL is trying to accomplish with their stunning amount of brain-power and musical genius. Saying music is subjective and then turning around and claiming you somehow know how some music is objectively good are conflicting ideas.

Who said they were the most original band? I said they're innovative, cos they are. They do, and were doing, things that aren't exactly mainsteam stuff. Nobody said "First band to...". Innovation doesn't always mean "First". Hence why there are always new and innovative guitarists, they aren't necessarily doing anything new, but doing old things in new ways.

As 2D said, don't twist definitions to fit your agenda.

From the American Heritage Dictionary:
in·no·va·tion n. The act of introducing something new.

They didn't, no matter how you try to spin it. As I said before, all their ideas were based off everything else. They didn't bring anything new to the table, nor did they even mix anything up.

Neon Blonde? If it's the Neon Blonde I'm thinking of: Hahahaha.

Here you go again, acting as if you're the Supreme Ruler. You did nothing to disprove my point. I don't give a shit about your personal view of Neon Blonde (hell, I can only stand one song at a time before my brain is about to explode), but try and tell me one single record that sounds like theirs. If you can, I'll retract the statement.

See, now that's silly, because it's hard to deny that they have a phenomenal live show, regardless of whether or not you like the music.

God, you really just DON'T. GIVE. UP. You really do know everything. It's not hard to deny it if you're not a fan of their music. I thought the live show was even worse than the records. It was just slow and monotonous and boring.

Damn, Alpha, if only you paid attention and stopped tapping your feet.

Now that you've had an verbal, emotional, and intellectual beat-down, I suggest you go hide in a hole somewhere. Or, you could try a rebuttal, but it'll just come off as weak and floundering. Either way, I'm done with this.

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
You're the one getting abusive, personal and aiming the debate at me cos I trashed yours.

Stop focusing on me, I appreciate you dedicating the time and all, but focus on the debate. I appreciate the compliments too.

Now, have you got an opposing argument? Or are you done?

-AC

Do you have a argument at all? No you never did, thus I don't have a reply. Just opinions?YES THAT IS ALL YOU HAVE. Are you the new EP? seems like it.

AGAIN: If you didn’t call me 'stupid', Please keep your insignificant and pitiful OPINIONS to yourself. You don't see me randomly telling you what a idiot I think you are.

Originally posted by 2D_MASTER
You only use the word 'subjective' when it suits you.

Boom.

I know I said I was done, but I just realized I had looked over something in my haste:

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
I said they aren't very known in the mainstream here, and they aren't, really.
-AC

LOL

That is all.

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
Also, there is deep meaning behind almost every Tool song, and their lyrics too. You don't see it? Then don't go around saying there isn't anything. Don't assume you "get" everything, and if you don't see anything, there must be nothing. You ARE human, there ARE things that are above you. There are things in life that I don't understand, but others do, it doesn't mean they're seeing things that aren't there. It's arrogance to suggest otherwise.

Oh, I know I'm human and I know there are things above me. It just so happens that I don't see Tool's music, lyrics, meaning, and the little army of arrogant, "intellectual" elitists who "get it" as being one of those things.

And just because Tool discusses things that the general public doesn't know about doesn't make them any more important or special. How stupid to say that that's the reason why their music is so deviant. And believe me - I could probably Google this bullshit and read all about it...But it definitely wouldn't change my opinion just because I know what the hell they're talking about.

Originally posted by enjoyyrworries
Right, so...he's stupid because he thinks OK Computer is mediocre. What did I miss? And don't try that tired bullshit where you say 'I DIDN'T SAY HE WAS STUPID, I SAID HIS IDEA WAS STUPID.' That's a cop-out. Man up to what you say. Anyone that has different taste in music than you is...stupid, or at least their views are. They're not different, they're stupid.

Don't alter my explanations. I said I believe he holds a stupid view on the subject. My opinion of HIM is not related to this debate.

I said what I said, go read it. If you're bitter that what YOU WISH I said isn't actually there, then tough.

Originally posted by enjoyyrworries
This is personally my favorite part of your cow fodder babble. Anyone that doesn't listen to to TOOL is missing a few too many brain cells. As if TOOL is not only made up some intellectual giants, but also make music that only their own 'kind' can 'get.' Or, the other option, I'm jealous because I don't understand it. Excuse me, but what the **** are you talking about? You apparently don't like Neon Blonde, but I'd argue that's because you're just too emotional bankrupt to admit you don't 'get' it. But maybe you're right. Maybe I just don't understand the deep, philosophical, metaphorical meaning behind this sexist shit:

Where did I say "Anyone who doesn't listen to Tool are missing brain cells."? Quote me. Don't cop out and say anything else, I want a quote. Because I never said, nor do I think, that.

As I said before: If I wrote a song that 5 of my friends would get, because we share the interest, and 500 others who do NOT share the interest listened to it, what would that mean? There's no meaning, or that those 500 simply aren't getting it? It would mean the latter, simple as.

As for Neon Blonde, what Neon Blonde are we talking about? I'm not sure if the band YOU mentioned are the one I'm thinking of.

Originally posted by enjoyyrworries
Yeah, *****, see how much you can take. I don't 'get' you, TOOL.

That's one quote from one song, and many people interpret that passage in many different ways. Also, Maynard is far from sexist, so it proves you've interpreted it in your own way also; Wrongly.

Originally posted by enjoyyrworries
Or maybe it's just mindless dribble for people who don't have the energy or patience to find real metal. Oh, I'm sorry, progressive rock. Honestly, I'm glad I don't 'get' what TOOL is trying to do, or I'd be thrown in with the same group you seem to be in.

I listen to plenty of metal if I think it sounds good, the same with any music. I don't discriminate genres.

Good, at least you ADMIT you don't "get" Tool.

Originally posted by enjoyyrworries
Maybe you don't act like U2 being bland is a fact, but you sure as hell are able to cope with telling 2D that he's stupid for his opinion of Radiohead, and that I'm a mindless drone for not understand what TOOL is trying to accomplish with their stunning amount of brain-power and musical genius. Saying music is subjective and then turning around and claiming you somehow know how some music is objectively good are conflicting ideas.

I said his opinion of Radiohead's album was stupid, stop twisting.

I never said you were a mindless drone for not understand Tool, I simply said you don't understand them, which you evidently and admittedly do not. It doesn't make you dumb, it doesn't make you a drone, it makes you someone who doesn't understand Tool. What DOES make your opinion dumb, in my opinion, is the fact that you are matter of factly stating there's either nothing there or nothing of meaning.

Excuse me? I have never, ever claimed music is objectively good. I spent a long debate, as ANYBODY ON THIS FORUM will clarify, proving why music IS subjective. So shut up and read before you jump in.

Originally posted by enjoyyrworries
As 2D said, don't twist definitions to fit your agenda.

Pardon? Like you've not put a million and one things in my post that were never there.

Originally posted by enjoyyrworries
From the American Heritage Dictionary:
in·no·va·tion n. The act of introducing something new.

They didn't, no matter how you try to spin it. As I said before, all their ideas were based off everything else. They didn't bring anything new to the table, nor did they even mix anything up.

Exactly. The act of introducing something new, not being the first to do something. People introduce new ways of playing the guitar, are they not innovative because they didn't invent the instrument? No.

Danny Carey was wildly praise, specifically by Lenny White (Gonna argue with him?) for his work on Lateralus, because no modern drummer plays the way he does, because he's introducing new ways of playing.

Originally posted by enjoyyrworries
Here you go again, acting as if you're the Supreme Ruler. You did nothing to disprove my point. I don't give a shit about your personal view of Neon Blonde (hell, I can only stand one song at a time before my brain is about to explode), but try and tell me one single record that sounds like theirs. If you can, I'll retract the statement.

Clarify what Neon Blonde we're talking about, I know a few bands called that.

Originally posted by enjoyyrworries
God, you really just DON'T. GIVE. UP. You really do know everything. It's not hard to deny it if you're not a fan of their music. I thought the live show was even worse than the records. It was just slow and monotonous and boring.

Do I? I don't know everything, at all, but once again thanks for being one of the many who like to think I do, or tell me I think I do. It's a trademark of my opponents; "When losing, attack AC and tell him he thinks stuff about himself.". Never, ever fails to show up.

The live show is separate from the music. Even as a non-fan I can appreciate U2's live spectacle.

Originally posted by enjoyyrworries
Damn, Alpha, if only you paid attention and stopped tapping your feet.

Shhhhh little child, continue the relevant argument.

Originally posted by enjoyyrworries
[BNow that you've had an verbal, emotional, and intellectual beat-down, I suggest you go hide in a hole somewhere. Or, you could try a rebuttal, but it'll just come off as weak and floundering. Either way, I'm done with this. [/B]

Lovely exit! Lovely! Act like you've done damage, then bail.

You WILL reply, you can't resist, your kind never can. You thrive off replying to me because it justifies your time here.

-AC