Originally posted by Fishy
Oh dear, who cares anyways... Read the rest of the post, and while you are at it, read Nai's post... If that doesn't convince you then i'm going to label you as a fanboy from now on.
The Books just aren't Canon. Why can't you just face that?
ROTS Novel: Kit Fisto head is off of his body and on an office table.
ROTS Movie: Kit is slashed across the chest and falls to the ground.
The books just aren't Canon, buddy!
Whoa Sorgo, way to fight the odds.
Let's just check over the facts that are in Mace's favor:
- Was a secondary council member, created his own fighting style and was a master by TPM.
- Obviously contended with Sidious, whereas it is doubtful Obi-Wan could have. There isn't anything to even hint that Obi-Wan -could- contend with Sidious, since it was Mace's aggressive technique and onorthodox methods that got Sidious sitting on his ass in half a minute.
- In Shatterpoint, Mace plays it very smart, and shows a lot of adaption on the battlefield and off of, despite being behind enemy lines and totally outnumbered and outgunned on many occassions.
Now for Obi-Wan:
- Defeated Anakin Skywalker in a prolonged fight.
- Defeated Grievious in a rather neutral setting (Compared to Mace fighting Grievious on top of a moving repulsorlift train.) in a lightsaber battle.
- Defeated a Sith lord through mostly good fortune.
There is nothing that points to Obi-Wan having any favor in this setup. Mace has more of everything, and he would win. Especially because of his Shatterpoint ability.
Originally posted by Fishy
Oh dear, who cares anyways... Read the rest of the post, and while you are at it, read Nai's post... If that doesn't convince you then i'm going to label you as a fanboy from now on.
What's your problem? I'm just trying to even out the playing field a bit. Everybody says Obi sucks cause he needs the enviroment to do this and that. No. He just uses his head in a duel he dosen't swing away babe ruth style like anakin. I agree with Sorgo, the books are not cannon theyre just different takes on the SW saga.
Originally posted by Sorgo
The Books just aren't Canon. Why can't you just face that?ROTS Novel: Kit Fisto head is off of his body and on an office table.
ROTS Movie: Kit is slashed across the chest and falls to the ground.The books just aren't Canon, buddy!
Sorgo, don't deny the books when they don't support your arguments. That's ridiculous. In this, an EU subforum, books are as good as canon so long as they don't directly contradict the movies. If we couldn't apply books, why would we even use characters like NJO Luke, that technically wouldn't exist under your mindset?
No, don't try and fight the books on this one. If you're looking for movie purism, you are in the wrong section.
Originally posted by MAKASHIMAN
What's your problem? I'm just trying to even out the playing field a bit. Everybody says Obi sucks cause he needs the enviroment to do this and that. No. He just uses his head in a duel he dosen't swing away babe ruth style like anakin. I agree with Sorgo, the books are not cannon theyre just different takes on the SW saga.
I wasn't talking to you, I replied before I even saw your post, sorry.
Originally posted by Darth_Janus
Sorgo, don't deny the books when they don't support your arguments. That's ridiculous. In this, an EU subforum, books are as good as canon so long as they don't directly contradict the movies. If we couldn't apply books, why would we even use characters like NJO Luke, that technically wouldn't exist under your mindset?No, don't try and fight the books on this one. If you're looking for movie purism, you are in the wrong section.
They do not support any arguements, being that the books are things that never happened to any relevance to the movie.
Don't support the books PERIOD, Janus. They have no relevance or importance in these Arguements. Hell, if some author made a book where Mace comes back to life and kills everyone in the Galaxy, are you gonna use that in here, Janus?
Originally posted by Darth_Janus
Whoa Sorgo, way to fight the odds.Let's just check over the facts that are in Mace's favor:
- Was a secondary council member, created his own fighting style and was a master by TPM.
- Obviously contended with Sidious, whereas it is doubtful Obi-Wan could have. There isn't anything to even hint that Obi-Wan -could- contend with Sidious, since it was Mace's aggressive technique and onorthodox methods that got Sidious sitting on his ass in half a minute.
- In Shatterpoint, Mace plays it very smart, and shows a lot of adaption on the battlefield and off of, despite being behind enemy lines and totally outnumbered and outgunned on many occassions.
Now for Obi-Wan:
- Defeated Anakin Skywalker in a prolonged fight.
- Defeated Grievious in a rather neutral setting (Compared to Mace fighting Grievious on top of a moving repulsorlift train.) in a lightsaber battle.
- Defeated a Sith lord through mostly good fortune.
There is nothing that points to Obi-Wan having any favor in this setup. Mace has more of everything, and he would win. Especially because of his Shatterpoint ability.
Mace created nothing. He merely advanced what is Juyo.
There is no proof Mace contended with Sidious.
- Sidious had his Lightsaber pointed at Mace's chest. And don't say his arm was fully extended. Even so, all he had to do was parry his feet.
- Sidious was apparently "weak" after Mace knocked him down, but managed to use Lightning to throw him fifty feet out of a window?
C'mon now!
In Shatterpoint, Mace plays it very smart, and shows a lot of adaption on the battlefield and off of, despite being behind enemy lines and totally outnumbered and outgunned on many occassions.
If you wish to go by the books, Obi Wan destroyed around ten thousand to fifteen thousand droids in a hallway, so....
So what are you saying now? Don't use EU in an EU forum... If thats it then don't post here.
And no of course not because that book would never get published.
Now the books about the movies are indeed none cannon, unless of course you consider the book about ANH which was written by Lucas himself. The other books however are cannon.
But lets drop the debate about whats cannon and not and continue the debate about Mace and Obi Wan. Unless of course you are finally willing to admit that Obi Wan doesn't really have a chance.
Originally posted by Fishy
I wasn't talking to you, I replied before I even saw your post, sorry.
My bad. Anyway let's be realistic some books make luke out to be the king of the universe while others make yoda out to be the suckiest jedi ever. My point is that you really have to examine the info and compare it with SW.com. I personaly don't like it because it's self contradicting but next to GL's words it's the best. Maybe even wiki when it's not ridiculous. Anyways some books are cannon others are not it's all a matter of finding valid non idiotic info in those books.
Originally posted by Sorgo
Mace created nothing. He merely advanced what is Juyo.There is no proof Mace contended with Sidious.
- Sidious had his Lightsaber pointed at Mace's chest. And don't say his arm was fully extended. Even so, all he had to do was parry his feet.
- Sidious was apparently "weak" after Mace knocked him down, but managed to use Lightning to throw him fifty feet out of a window?
C'mon now!
[B]In Shatterpoint, Mace plays it very smart, and shows a lot of adaption on the battlefield and off of, despite being behind enemy lines and totally outnumbered and outgunned on many occassions.
If you wish to go by the books, Obi Wan destroyed around ten thousand to fifteen thousand droids in a hallway, so.... [/B]
I'm not even going to go into a Mace Sidious debate, I already said that.
Now Mace did create his own style yes it was based on another style, but all styles are. If you want to say it like that then there really aren't any styles, just extensions on the first. Which is bullshit.
Obi Wan also didn't destroy 10.000 droids, I think it was more around 30. And Mace did fight smart, look if you want to debate movie online go to the damn movie forums. This is an EU forum we use EU sources here. And even in the movies there is nothing to suggest that Mace is weaker then Obi Wan.
Jesus, you and Makashiman suddenly take bad crack today?
There is a distinction between movie novelisation and EU novels.
Novelisations are NOT canon and are NOT even quasi canon (quasi canon being the whole of EU that is sanctioned by Luasfilm and Lucasarts inc.) They are simply an author's take on a film or its script (as was the case with ROTS) and are made to milk the proverbial cow.
EU Novels are NOT canon, but they ARE quasi canon and here at the Eu subforum versus threads we do acknowledge them, even grudgingly. If Lucasarts said Mace came back from the dead and saved the galaxy (For one, it'd make no sense at all and contradict other EU novels and comics) it would be quasi-canon and thus a source to draw upon here, but that doesn't mean I have to like it.
Originally posted by Darth_Janus
Jesus, you and Makashiman suddenly take bad crack today?There is a distinction between movie novelisation and EU novels.
Novelisations are NOT canon and are NOT even quasi canon (quasi canon being the whole of EU that is sanctioned by Luasfilm and Lucasarts inc.) They are simply an author's take on a film or its script (as was the case with ROTS) and are made to milk the proverbial cow.
EU Novels are NOT canon, but they ARE quasi canon and here at the Eu subforum versus threads we do acknowledge them, even grudgingly. If Lucasarts said Mace came back from the dead and saved the galaxy (For one, it'd make no sense at all and contradict other EU novels and comics) it would be quasi-canon and thus a source to draw upon here, but that doesn't mean I have to like it.
Lucasarts? Lucasarts? What the hell do they have to do with anything? They sure as hell have nothing to do with the books. The books are not Canon at all! This is proven with the ROTS Novel.
For crying out load, didn't you even read his post? One book doesn't proof the rest...
Movie books are not cannon the rest are unless they contradict the movies.
Now please drop this debate already, there are plenty of debates around. If you want to know whats cannon or not read one of those. Now can you please go back on topic.
Originally posted by Fishy
I'm not even going to go into a Mace Sidious debate, I already said that.
I heard you say that but unfortunately i was not talking to you. I was talking to Janus.
Originally posted by Fishy Now Mace did create his own style yes it was based on another style, but all styles are. If you want to say it like that then there really aren't any styles, just extensions on the first. Which is bullshit..
He advanced another style. That's.... Just....It!
Originally posted by Fishy Obi Wan also didn't destroy 10.000 droids, I think it was more around 30. And Mace did fight smart, look if you want to debate movie online go to the damn movie forums. This is an EU forum we use EU sources here. And even in the movies there is nothing to suggest that Mace is weaker then Obi Wan.
Actually, it was around 20,000, i think.... If you wanna go by the books, then Obi Wan did in fact do this.
Obi Wan fought smart too. He was probably one of the smartest fighters around, except for Yoda, who surpasses him.
Originally posted by Fishy
For crying out load, didn't you even read his post? One book doesn't proof the rest...Movie books are not cannon the rest are unless they contradict the movies.
Now please drop this debate already, there are plenty of debates around. If you want to know whats cannon or not read one of those. Now can you please go back on topic.
Doesn't it? Lucas has NOTHING to do with any of the books, that is one fact supporting why books are Canon, the other being things happen in the books that don't add up into the movie.