-Cough-
I never meant Dooku couldn't beat Sidious. But he didn't. Never tried, and as you said Sidious HAD something over Dooku (sad, considering Dooku has about five inches on Sidious, lol) and Dooku had nothing over Sidious. But that may just be political garbage.
I still am adamant in the Sidious debate where Dooku is the inferior Force user but superior duelist.
But that is NOT the argument, so we'll go elsewhere to argue.
I still think Mace could beat Obi-Wan.
Originally posted by Darth Somebody
It's in Palpatine's biography - or Sidious's (they have separate ones) I believe.Now, you mis-understand. Two people can start out with one of the two having the advantage over the other. Yet over time, the weaker one can improve faster or greater than the one who originally had the advantage until they are equal or the second is now superior. This may be the case.
I also don't mean Sidious wasn't lying about the "weak" and "tired" part. Only a fool would believe it. And when Sidious blasted him with Force lightning - Mace was in a struggle for dear life. And as soon as that saber was taken away, Mace was doomed. Instantly.
So no. I don't mean Mace beat his ass easily or that Sidious wasn't lying about when he called himself tired and weak. We all know he wasn't, as Mace's death was shown. THAT was when he tried to make Anakin choose - also because with Mace holding his saber (which is capable of holding even Sidious's lightning down) - he'd have no choice but to wait until a third party (Anakin) disarmed Mace long enough for Sidious to take the advantage.
Any one of those Jedi would have been used to turn Anakin to the dark side. ANY!
He had his saber to Mace's chest, like i said before. His arm was fully extended? It was close enough for him to parry, so why didn't he? I'll let you figure that out all by yourself.
Originally posted by Darth_Nefarus
hey Sorgo, here's some advice, agree to disagree with Janus, he's more stubborn that you'll ever know
Um... I have known him two months longer than you have, but okay.
Obi Wan has a great defense system in his Lightsaber form and Mace has offense and is known for making mistakes in his combat (We have all seen him f*ck up) and the whole figuration of Kenobi's dueling is to defend until you have found a mistake in the opponents Form.
One of the main reasons Obi could not defeat Dooku is because Dooku was flawless with his fighting and Obi could never find a f*ck-up.
Sure, it would be a long fight, but Obi Wan would take it home.
Originally posted by Sorgo
You are comparing someone elses win to another person? That is like saying Sidious can kick Dooku's ass because Yoda apparently beat Dooku and Sidious beat Yoda.
Sidious didn't beat Yoda in a fair fight...
Still they tell you everywhere that Mace would only lose to Dooku and Yoda, that he is the second best lightsaber duellist and force practicioner in the order (behind Yoda) and who wonders about it since this character was designed for Samuel "badass" Jackson ? I guess he simply received more money than all the other actors and therefore he's the best. (Except Yoda because CGI chars are even more expensive). 😉
Originally posted by Sorgo
Any one of those Jedi would have been used to turn Anakin to the dark side. ANY!He had his saber to Mace's chest, like i said before. His arm was fully extended? It was close enough for him to parry, so why didn't he? I'll let you figure that out all by yourself.
Like I said Sorgo, I don't believe Sidious went all out on Mace. The fight with Yoda displayed that he can raise his levels of aggression and Force power. Had he used the Force, he would have probably defeated Mace. Sidious is in a league of his own in Force powers - only with Yoda.
Sidious did NOT go all out on Mace. But in that fight, in that instance, he did beat Sidious. Would he defeat him any other time? Probably not. Would he have beat him if he were in Yoda's position? I HIGHLY doubt it.
So. If both Sidious and Mace were cutting loose - Sidious would prolly fry his ass early on.
And as for the Jedi comment, I doubt it. Anakin and Mace had a sort of history. Mace doesn't trust Anakin and thinks he's a loose cannon. And Anakin knew it. Palpatine probably knew it as well, and decided to take advantage of it. So in terms of relationships - the only one Anakin had greater than Mace or Yoda (who wasn't there at the time) was Obi-Wan, and Sidious wasn't sure at the time whether or not Anakin would turn against Obi-Wan.
But that isn't the fight we're talking about.
Kenobi has displayed nothing but a LOT of luck that would ever make him emerge victorious over Mace.
Originally posted by Darth Somebody
Like I said Sorgo, I don't believe Sidious went all out on Mace. The fight with Yoda displayed that he can raise his levels of aggression and Force power. Had he used the Force, he would have probably defeated Mace. Sidious is in a league of his own in Force powers - only with Yoda.Sidious did NOT go all out on Mace. But in that fight, in that instance, he did beat Sidious. Would he defeat him any other time? Probably not. Would he have beat him if he were in Yoda's position? I HIGHLY doubt it.
So. If both Sidious and Mace were cutting loose - Sidious would prolly fry his ass early on.
And as for the Jedi comment, I doubt it. Anakin and Mace had a sort of history. Mace doesn't trust Anakin and thinks he's a loose cannon. And Anakin knew it. Palpatine probably knew it as well, and decided to take advantage of it. So in terms of relationships - the only one Anakin had greater than Mace or Yoda (who wasn't there at the time) was Obi-Wan, and Sidious wasn't sure at the time whether or not Anakin would turn against Obi-Wan.
But that isn't the fight we're talking about.
Kenobi has displayed nothing but a LOT of luck that would ever make him emerge victorious over Mace.
I can imagine he was lucky when Anakin lost two legs and his last organic arm to Obi Wan.
I just don't think Mace's Offensive and flawed form could take over a solid defense form that awaits mistakes from your opponent.
IMO, Mace just wouldn't be able to defeat Kenobi.
Originally posted by Nai Fohl
Sidious didn't beat Yoda in a fair fight...Still they tell you everywhere that Mace would only lose to Dooku and Yoda, that he is the second best lightsaber duellist and force practicioner in the order (behind Yoda) and who wonders about it since this character was designed for Samuel "badass" Jackson ? I guess he simply received more money than all the other actors and therefore he's the best. (Except Yoda because CGI chars are even more expensive). 😉
Mace is the best because he recieved the most money? Oh, of course. This could have nothing to do with the fact that Jackson is a spoiled arse.
All right, I'll say Mace, but by extremely little. Mace is on par with Yoda. Yoda claims Obi-Wan is not strong enough to face Sidious, but Yoda is strong enough to face Sidious, indicating that Mace is stronger than Obi-Wan. But Yoda isn't always right. Still, Obi would have had to get a hell of alot better between AOTC and ROTS to be able to defeat Mace. And he did get alot stronger, but I still give it to Mace.
Originally posted by Darth Zayzia
Forgive me for as you senior members call it "digging up old threads", but I must say this thread is...to say the least idiocy. Mace was leagues above Obi-Wan IMO.
Watch yourself, there. Not saying I don't neccessarily share your views, but our friend Sorgo here is exciteable, and you just called his wunderthread a pile of idiocy. I hope nothing goes atomic here.
Originally posted by Darth_Janus
Watch yourself, there. Not saying I don't neccessarily share your views, but our friend Sorgo here is exciteable, and you just called his wunderthread a pile of idiocy. I hope nothing goes atomic here.
Oops I'm sorry. Please Sorgo forgive any offence I may have caused you.