Colossus vs. Sabertooth

Started by Creshosk32 pages

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
You mean Hulk PIS when we consider all the other things Hulk does?
It's not PIS because he doesn't do it very frequently, does he?

It happens frequently. Hulk knocking him out would be Hulk SVFL since he does it infrequently, despite trying. 😆

Originally posted by Creshosk
He can abosrb the pure concussive force? Where does it say that? 😉

erm, have u seen him and alex use their powers on each other? cyke shot havok point blank and havok barely flinched, is it so hard to believe the opposite is true?

Originally posted by Creshosk
Gee, if it happens frequently enough it's not SVFL is it?

What happens quite frequently?

Wolverine taking hulk punches.

Looks like Wolverine taking Hulk punches is credible due to the rules. Since it happens frequently.

We are just in denial now, if its out of his reasonable abilities it is.

Hulk pIs, means the whole scene doesnt' count.

I don't get the point of this, what does hulk have to do with colossus?

Originally posted by Creshosk
[QUOTE=4922454]Originally posted by wannabe
[B] Continous use of something that is wrong doesn't make it right.

It does for other characters, why not Wolverine?[/B][/QUOTE]I'm posting my opinion here and i don't like it for other characters either.
Originally posted by Creshosk
[QUOTE=4922454]Originally posted by wannabe
[B]He's not.(the only one bound to real world science)
Sure he is, why not cyclops, spiderman, the hulk, the fantastic four, angel etc etc etc[/B][/QUOTE]
I'm not talking about the existence of super powers but about their illustrated effects.
It's a comic world, we have to take it for granted that these powers are real there (and we gladly do).
But even the super powers work within the frame of "real world physics" OR it's an explicidly stated part of the power to bypass or break them (reality-warping for example).
-Cyclops wields concussive force that usually does not have any propulsive effects on himself (it would ripp his head off), ok...but when he stands on a deck of a ship and uses his beam in a certain direction to accelerate the ship, IT'S BULLS**T!(1602 part 5)
-Hulk has the physical strength to shatter a mountain, ok...but when he is then not strong enough to knock out a person whose bio-tissue heals extremely fast but is otherwise normal flesh, IT'S BULLS**T!
-Angel is created to fly via aerodynamic, ok...but if he would fly in space, i'd say: THAT'S BULLS**T! etc. etc. etc.
Originally posted by Creshosk
[QUOTE=4922454]Originally posted by wannabe
[B]They exaggerated and so built up a profile that would be hard to hold on to in case they wanted to draw a more believable picture of Wolvie (which, thank god, happens from time to time).

See? "more believeable" you like it when he's taken down don't you?[/B][/QUOTE]
It's not about seeing him taken down!!!
When he fights normal criminals, even whole squads, superbeings like Sabretooth, Cap, Archangel, Pyro etc. i'd say: He could/should win...
BUT when he fights the Hulk, Magneto or another superbeing with superstrong invulnerability and/or "manipulating forcefield powers"(hope you know what i mean), then it would be more believable and not a shame for him to loose!
Originally posted by Creshosk
[QUOTE=4922454]Originally posted by wannabe
[B]Who said that? We are talking about Wolverine(Sabretooth) here...doesn't make sense taking in other characters, does it?
And i'm referring to real world physics and natural forces that usually seem to work in comics too.
No, you're talking about real world physics that override what already is in comics.[/B][/QUOTE]
"Real world science" and "comic science" are not that different.
When you can accept the existence of super powers and super technology, the laws of nature are pretty much the same. Gravity, magnetism, electricity, thermodynamics, actio-reactio etc...it's all there in general life.
Only in situations where authors want to show Wolvies(just an example) exeptional fighting abilities these principles cease to exist and he is able to wield his claws with enough strength to penetrate steel, while he's usually not even able to lift a car, which would need less strength...strength he does not have.
Originally posted by Creshosk
[QUOTE=4922454]Originally posted by wannabe
[B]Slightly moving from current status to a more believable one wouldn't be the worst thing.
Why is it needed?[/B][/QUOTE]
It's not NEEDED. It's just my opinion. I, wannabe, would like it that way!
Originally posted by Creshosk
[QUOTE=4922454]Originally posted by wannabe
[B]Wolverine is a character who is interesting, capable, deep and cool enough not to depend on exaggeration!!!
And was he exagerating back when he first became an X-man? how about the Majority of his carrer? He exagerates the majority of his carrer?[/B][/QUOTE]
I was referring to a post of yours, where you said something about him taking a punch from Colossus without problems at their first meeting.
And yes...he exaggerates often enough for many users (including me) of this and comparable forums to be annoying.
Originally posted by Creshosk
[QUOTE=4922454]Originally posted by wannabe
[B]I don't know if you read other posts of mine, but in case you did...strange that you didn't notice that i use the same standards on ALL characters...even those i favour the most.
I'm not talking about that. Why is Wolverine/Sabertooth being bound to sciencentific facts that do not exist in the same state in the comic book world when other characters are not being bound to scientific laws that make them "less beleiveable"? [/B][/QUOTE]
Hope this question is, taking into account my writings above, now meaningless.

Originally posted by Creshosk
It's not PIS because he doesn't do it very frequently, does he?

It happens frequently. Hulk knocking him out would be Hulk SVFL since he does it infrequently, despite trying. 😆

You do realise the frequency of occurence has nothing to do with PIS right?

Originally posted by Creshosk
It's not PIS because he doesn't do it very frequently, does he?

It happens frequently. Hulk knocking him out would be Hulk SVFL since he does it infrequently, despite trying. 😆

We are escaping any point to answer a question here, and I see where this is going at.

Ignorance of the rules, understand them, THEN debate.

Originally posted by wannabe
It does for other characters, why not Wolverine?
I'm posting my opinion here and i don't like it for other characters either.
Sure he is, why not cyclops, spiderman, the hulk, the fantastic four, angel etc etc etc[/B][/QUOTE]
I'm not talking about the existence of super powers but about their illustrated effects.
It's a comic world, we have to take it for granted that these powers are real there (and we gladly do).
But even the super powers work within the frame of "real world physics" OR it's an explicidly stated part of the power to bypass or break them (reality-warping for example).
-Cyclops wields concussive force that usually does not have any propulsive effects on himself (it would ripp his head off), ok...but when he stands on a deck of a ship and uses his beam in a certain direction to accelerate the ship, IT'S BULLS**T!(1602 part 5)
-Hulk has the physical strength to shatter a mountain, ok...but when he is then not strong enough to knock out a person whose bio-tissue heals extremely fast but is otherwise normal flesh, IT'S BULLS**T!
-Angel is created to fly via aerodynamic, ok...but if he would fly in space, i'd say: THAT'S BULLS**T! etc. etc. etc.

See? "more believeable" you like it when he's taken down don't you?[/B][/QUOTE]
It's not about seeing him taken down!!!
When he fights normal criminals, even whole squads, superbeings like Sabretooth, Cap, Archangel, Pyro etc. i'd say: He could/should win...
BUT when he fights the Hulk, Magneto or another superbeing with superstrong invulnerability and/or "manipulating forcefield powers"(hope you know what i mean), then it would be more believable and not a shame for him to loose!
No, you're talking about real world physics that override what already is in comics.[/B][/QUOTE]
"Real world science" and "comic science" are not that different.
When you can accept the existence of super powers and super technology, the laws of nature are pretty much the same. Gravity, magnetism, electricity, thermodynamics, actio-reactio etc...it's all there in general life.
Only in situations where authors want to show Wolvies(just an example) exeptional fighting abilities these principles cease to exist and he is able to wield his claws with enough strength to penetrate steel, while he's usually not even able to lift a car, which would need less strength...strength he does not have.
Why is it needed?[/B][/QUOTE]
It's not NEEDED. It's just my opinion. I, wannabe, would like it that way!
And was he exagerating back when he first became an X-man? how about the Majority of his carrer? He exagerates the majority of his carrer?[/B][/QUOTE]
I was referring to a post of yours, where you said something about him taking a punch from Colossus without problems at their first meeting.
And yes...he exaggerates often enough for many users (including me) of this and comparable forums to be annoying.
I'm not talking about that. Why is Wolverine/Sabertooth being bound to sciencentific facts that do not exist in the same state in the comic book world when other characters are not being bound to scientific laws that make them "less beleiveable"? [/B][/QUOTE]
Hope this question is, taking into account my writings above, now meaningless. [/B][/QUOTE]

Why are you wasting time here, he's not going to rebut it, but answer everything with a question as usual...

Originally posted by Tha C-Master
We are just in denial now, if its out of his reasonable abilities it is.
It's in the rules buddy, frequently enough and it's not PIS or SVFL. 😉

Originally posted by Tha C-Master
Hulk pIs, means the whole scene doesnt' count.
even though it happens frequently? 😆

Originally posted by Tha C-Master
I don't get the point of this, what does hulk have to do with colossus?
You don't see a connection between Wolverine vs Hulk and Sabertooth vs Colossus?

Wolverine, with the weaker healing factor takes hulk punches.

Sabertooth with the better healing factor . . .

Originally posted by Creshosk
It's in the rules buddy, frequently enough and it's not PIS or SVFL. 😉

even though it happens frequently? 😆

You don't see a connection between Wolverine vs Hulk and Sabertooth vs Colossus?

Wolverine, with the weaker healing factor takes hulk punches.

Sabertooth with the better healing factor . . .

When did ANYONE say he couldn't?

Frequency has nothing to do with pis, thats svfl.

You are worse than ac at this point.

Originally posted by Creshosk

Sabertooth with the better healing factor . . .

Dies a horribly painful death due to the russian ripping him apart...

see here's the thing.... if it's proven within wolverine's capability to keep his ass from getting KOed by hulk, than it's an automatic given that it will be reflected on hulk as an inability to knock logan unconscious during their given fights. For this to be considered PIS there has to be a bar of comparison that's been set...

hulk rends mountains to pieces...wolverine is not a mountain.

hulk punched a planetoid apart...wolverine is not a planetoid

hulk ripped apart onslaughts armor...wolverine is not onslaught or his armor.

see? the only way he can truly gauge how hulk fairs against a mutant with an adamtium skeleton is by direct comparison since logan's so unique in some aspects....calculations and comparisons that have nothing to do with wolverine or are not even comparative are truly moot points here...... going by direct comparisons wolverine isn't getting KOed on average...hell he's not even getting koed when he's paying attention.

so where does your premise come from?

Frequency has nothing to do with PIS read the Flash example.

Originally posted by pr1983
Dies a horribly painful death due to the russian ripping him apart...
wolverine fanboys, don't like logic....

Have you seen them say HOW the character would win, or have you seen them defensively take points out of context?

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
Ah I see now the rules have changed and are simplistic because you no longer believe they favour you? How ACish.

not the rules...the conversation... 🤨

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
You do realise the frequency of occurence has nothing to do with PIS right?
PIS and SVFL are two sides of the same coin. One character reaching up, the other character reaching down.

What would be PIS for hulk would be SVFL for Wolverine. Since clearly "Wolverine is preforming beyond his abilities" which is SVFL.

So it would be SVFL for wolverine. . . but since it happens frequently its not SVFL for wolverine, and IS well within his abilities, because of frequency.

So it can't be PIS for hulk, since knocking him out would be the less frequent SVFL which is subject to frequency.

It's in the rules, Wolverine can take Hulk Punches because he does it frequently. 🙂

Originally posted by jinzin
see here's the thing.... if it's proven within wolverine's capability to keep his ass from getting KOed by hulk, than it's an automatic given that it will be reflected on hulk as an inability to knock logan unconscious during their given fights. For this to be considered PIS there has to be a bar of comparison that's been set...

hulk rends mountains to pieces...wolverine is not a mountain.

hulk punched a planetoid apart...wolverine is not a planetoid

hulk ripped apart onslaughts armor...wolverine is not onslaught or his armor.

see? the only way he can truly gauge how hulk fairs against a mutant with an adamtium skeleton is by direct comparison since logan's so unique in some aspects....calculations and comparisons that have nothing to do with wolverine or are not even comparative are truly moot points here...... going by direct comparisons wolverine isn't getting KOed on average...hell he's not even getting koed when he's paying attention.

so where does your premise come from?

Are you stupid, are you implying that wolverine is MORE than a planetoid or onslaught's armor?

Originally posted by jinzin
see here's the thing.... if it's proven within wolverine's capability to keep his ass from getting KOed by hulk, than it's an automatic given that it will be reflected on hulk as an inability to knock logan unconscious during their given fights. For this to be considered PIS there has to be a bar of comparison that's been set...

hulk rends mountains to pieces...wolverine is not a mountain.

hulk punched a planetoid apart...wolverine is not a planetoid

hulk ripped apart onslaughts armor...wolverine is not onslaught or his armor.

see? the only way he can truly gauge how hulk fairs against a mutant with an adamtium skeleton is by direct comparison since logan's so unique in some aspects....calculations and comparisons that have nothing to do with wolverine or are not even comparative are truly moot points here...... going by direct comparisons wolverine isn't getting KOed on average...hell he's not even getting koed when he's paying attention.

so where does your premise come from?

Keep reaching for those straws jinzin. Grasp. Grasp.

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
Frequency has nothing to do with PIS read the Flash example.
Sure it does. where something is PIS for one character it's SVFL for the other.

Afterall wouldn't SVFL be FL's PIS? 😉

Originally posted by Creshosk
PIS and SVFL are two sides of the same coin. One character reaching up, the other character reaching down.

What would be PIS for hulk would be SVFL for Wolverine. Since clearly "Wolverine is preforming beyond his abilities" which is SVFL.

So it would be SVFL for wolverine. . . but since it happens frequently its not SVFL for wolverine, and IS well within his abilities, because of frequency.

So it can't be PIS for hulk, since knocking him out would be the less frequent SVFL which is subject to frequency.

It's in the rules, Wolverine can take Hulk Punches because he does it frequently. 🙂

Creshosk contradics himself, the namor example doesnt count because it doesn't suit him, but the hulk does?

misunderstanding the rules eh?

Originally posted by Creshosk
PIS and SVFL are two sides of the same coin. One character reaching up, the other character reaching down.
What would be PIS for hulk would be SVFL for Wolverine. Since clearly "Wolverine is preforming beyond his abilities" which is SVFL.
So it would be SVFL for wolverine. . . but since it happens frequently its not SVFL for wolverine, and IS well within his abilities, because of frequency.
So it can't be PIS for hulk, since knocking him out would be the less frequent SVFL which is subject to frequency.
It's in the rules, Wolverine can take Hulk Punches because he does it frequently. 🙂
No mentioning of PIS. It is Hulk PIS. They aren't the same thing? Pretty redundant to have two rules then.