Colossus vs. Sabertooth

Originally posted by pr1983
I dont get what you mean specifically... 😮

here's my thought process...cyclops is packing some awesomly powerful weapons in those eyes of his..enough to simply level a city block at a whim.... yet he can't get hurt by his own blast?

this doesn't make sense..because any HUMAN hit with that amount of force would be dissassembled completely...

so then...he does this because he is a mutant and not a human, and because you've seen him do it, would I not be correct in this assumption...?

Originally posted by pr1983
They arent... its just an extension of his abilities... its the reason his eyeballs arent smashed into his brain everytime he opens his eyes...

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
Pr, He's trying to make out some strange case that Cyclops' abilities are PIS.

not at all....

Originally posted by jinzin
it's a meathod that's built for you to find your own answer using objective logic..it's called the socr----ahhhh forget it....

Originally posted by wannabe
When it's properly done perhaps...but in this case...

Okay why do we think that Hulk having trouble with Wolverine is PIS? Because Logan isn't koed in one hit? Because Logan isn't knocked clear across the globe? Because the force of the Hulks punches don't level everything with in a several mile radius? No once again I need to ask... why the hell does this only matter with Wolverine? Anyone the Hulk hits should be knocked clear into orbit. The difference in weight between 300lbs Wolverine and 1000lbs Abomination is nothing for the Hulk. The Hulk should demolish any battle field he is fighting in with a single punch. The collateral damage would be massive and even greater still if he was fighting someone else in is strength bracket... but this never happens. Are we then to say that the Hulk never uses is his full strength in battle and that every single fight he is in is PIS. But if we say that then we need to keep in mind the the fights out weigh the random strength showings by massive numbers... and wouldn't that make all the Hulk's random strength feats PIS and not his fights?

The only reasons some can come up with for Hulk vs Wolverine being PIS is as fallows. "I don't THINK Wolverine SHOULD be able to do that... so its crap." As jinzin said its a matter of people arguing what they think Wolverine is capable of... and not what he actually is shown to be capable of.

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
It's largely filibustering.

Originally posted by jinzin
here's my thought process...cyclops is packing some awesomly powerful weapons in those eyes of his..enough to simply level a city block at a whim.... yet he can't get hurt by his own blast?

this doesn't make sense..because any HUMAN hit with that amount of force would be dissassembled completely...

so then...he does this because he is a mutant and not a human, and because you've seen him do it, would I not be correct in this assumption...?

its because of the fact that hes a mutant, its a documented part of his powers...

Originally posted by srankmissingnin
Okay why do we think that Hulk having trouble with Wolverine is PIS? Because Logan isn't koed in one hit? Because Logan isn't knocked clear across the globe? Because the force of the Hulks punches don't level everything with in a several mile radius? No once again I need to ask... why the hell does this only matter with Wolverine? Anyone the Hulk hits should be knocked clear into orbit. The difference in weight between 300lbs Wolverine and 1000lbs Abomination is nothing for the Hulk. The Hulk should demolish any battle field he is fighting in with a single punch. The collateral damage would be massive and even greater still if he was fighting someone else in is strength bracket... but this never happens. Are we then to say that the Hulk never uses is his full strength in battle and that every single fight he is in is PIS. But if we say that then we need to keep in mind the the fights out weigh the random strength showings by massive numbers... and wouldn't that make all the Hulk's random strength feats PIS and not his fights?

The only reasons some can come up with for Hulk vs Wolverine being PIS is as fallows. "I don't THINK Wolverine SHOULD be able to do that... so its crap." As jinzin said its a matter of people arguing what they think Wolverine is capable of... and not what he actually is shown to be capable of.

What you don't seem to understand, or rather not except is that the argument between your and I is not about "real world physics" vs "comic book physics" But it is instead based on the necessity of using some sort of "logical parameters" when debating.

As Farseer pointed out, comic books are chalk full of inconsistancies and plot devices, so determining outcomes of battles on a character's "history" alone does not make make for a logical style of argumentation. Instead, it creates a circular-illogical one. Using a character's stats helps one to determine which scenarios should be deemed credible arguments, and which one's should not.

Originally posted by srankmissingnin
Okay why do we think that Hulk having trouble with Wolverine is PIS? Because Logan isn't koed in one hit? Because Logan isn't knocked clear across the globe? Because the force of the Hulks punches don't level everything with in a several mile radius? No once again I need to ask... why the hell does this only matter with Wolverine? Anyone the Hulk hits should be knocked clear into orbit. The difference in weight between 300lbs Wolverine and 1000lbs Abomination is nothing for the Hulk. The Hulk should demolish any battle field he is fighting in with a single punch. The collateral damage would be massive and even greater still if he was fighting someone else in is strength bracket... but this never happens. Are we then to say that the Hulk never uses is his full strength in battle and that every single fight he is in is PIS. But if we say that then we need to keep in mind the the fights out weigh the random strength showings by massive numbers... and wouldn't that make all the Hulk's random strength feats PIS and not his fights?

The only reasons some can come up with for Hulk vs Wolverine being PIS is as fallows. "I don't THINK Wolverine SHOULD be able to do that... so its crap." As jinzin said its a matter of people arguing what they think Wolverine is capable of... and not what he actually is shown to be capable of.

no it's okay to use OTHER characters at their stronges....just as long as it's not wolverine...

Originally posted by jinzin
no it's okay to use OTHER characters at their stronges....just as long as it's not wolverine...

As Farseer pointed out, comic books are chalk full of inconsistancies and plot devices, so determining outcomes of battles on a character's "history" alone does not make make for a logical style of argumentation. Instead, it creates a circular-illogical one. Using a character's stats helps one to determine which scenarios should be deemed credible arguments, and which one's should not.

Originally posted by jinzin
no it's okay to use OTHER characters at their stronges....just as long as it's not wolverine...

who said that?

Originally posted by jinzin
no it's okay to use OTHER characters at their stronges....just as long as it's not wolverine...

Just inconsistant showings that you like, and that you do a poor job of defending...

Originally posted by pr1983
who said that?

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
No. PIS and SvFL are two different things. PIS is the lowering of a character to make the opponent a match for them and/or to advance the story. No frequency component.
SvFL is the anomalous raising of a character above and beyond their abilities. Statistical outliers. Frequency has bearing. You've stated numerous times Wolverine's healing factor is always the same now haven't you?

So Fire lord WASN'T being brought down in order to have Spiderman beat him? 😕

Originally posted by jinzin
no it's okay to use OTHER characters at their stronges....just as long as it's not wolverine...

Originally posted by pr1983
its because of the fact that hes a mutant, its a documented part of his powers...

exactly...so then is it not feasable to say the wolverine's MUTANT (not human) ...MUTANT anatomy, the same anatomy which helps him replace memories, and even physically smooth them over...the same anatomy that allows him to heal from multiple mortal wounds in seconds...the same mutant anatomy that keeps him on his feet after being hit with enough tranq to down a t-rex, and even get up after being juiced up with enough tranq to put down the hulk... combined with an adamantium skeleton.......................can keep him from being KOed by the hulk?

Ok, guys, i want this to end, this isnt hulk v wolverine...

FACT: Hulk is class 100...

FACT: Logan is barely class 2...

The force of a hulk punch should kill or at the very LEAST do major organ damage to wolverine, yet it doesnt... why? I believe its more to do with writing than actual genuinely fair writing...

Originally posted by jinzin
exactly...so then is it not feasable to say the wolverine's MUTANT (not human) ...MUTANT anatomy, the same anatomy which helps him replace memories, and even physically smooth them over...the same anatomy that allows him to heal from multiple mortal wounds in seconds...the same mutant anatomy that keeps him on his feet after being hit with enough tranq to down a t-rex, and even get up after being juiced up with enough tranq to put down the hulk... combined with an adamantium skeleton.......................can keep him from being KOed by the hulk?

because the hulk has gone toe to toe with onslaught and held his own... he is too strong for his punches not to do the damage they can do...

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
Which other character are you referring to? The Wonder Woman who goes rounds with Superman but apparently cannot KO Wolverine in your eyes? The Hulk who lifts mountains but apparently cannot KO Wolverine in your eyes? Do tell...

again...claiming me to make arguments I've never began..why should I explain those?..those are both concepts I've never backed.

Originally posted by pr1983
Ok, guys, i want this to end, this isnt hulk v wolverine...

FACT: Hulk is class 100...

FACT: Logan is barely class 2...

The force of a hulk punch should kill or at the very LEAST do major organ damage to wolverine, yet it doesnt... why? I believe its more to do with writing than actual genuinely fair writing...