Colossus vs. Sabertooth

Ok, let me just impart my knowledge of anatomy on you guys to try to help this along.

There are many types of joints, Synovial, Fibrous, immovable, cartligous. Well, ok there are 4 types of joints. Anyway. There is never a point where bones directly connect to each other. "movable" joints, like the shoulder, elbow, knees, hips, etc etc, are encapselted by a fluid filled sac. (when you dislocate a shoulder, its still in the synovial capsule, and you can pop it back in, it doesnt fall out into your hand) This sac serves the pupose of housing the bones, lubricatiing them (otherwise moving them would be extremely painful) and also housing anything else like bursa for the joint. (your kneecap is a bursa, a pad like tissue) Synovial joints also are for things like the bones of the hand and feet, although they dont have alot of motion, they still can move around a little bit. Fibrous and cartilagounus joints are less moveable, yet still movable a bit. You find this in certin places in the spinal cord, where the vertebral disks are (althouth the spinal cord also has synovial joints in the vertebrea parts that move) Synovial capsules are just connective tissue, and arnt exactly very sturdy, muscle and ligaments, bone formation, and the capsule all come together and keep the bones together.

It would be impossbile for wolverine to have molecular boneded bones, as if adamantium is boned to his cells. Bones are constantly breaking down and building up. New cells are born in the marrow, which i'll get to in a second, and as the grow older grow out, until they are finally destroyed and recycled to new cells. If his bones were bonded with adamantium, then his cells wouldnt know wtf to do. The adamantium would prevent cells from being broken down, and there wouldnt be room for new cells to grow, and those cells wouldnt have admantium. It would be really crazy. Wolverine's adamantium probably works like a cage, it coats the outside of his bones with microscopic "slits" in it, becase if it was completed coated, WOlverine would fall over dead within a few days, even with his healing factor. Bones MAKE blood, red bone marrow is where your blood comes from. Your blood is also how your body heals, and last checked, stays alive. Without his blood being able to get out of his bones, he would fall over dead. There has to be space for the blood to get into his body, and for blood to get into his bones, otherwise his bones would die. They need blood to live too.

My puzzlment is wtf are those metal things in his hands his claws pop out of. They are made of adamantium, because when he was bone claw he didnt have them, but they have to extend down into his claw channels to protect them, otherwise hed bleed a bit everytime his claws popped out. Were they implanted during weapon X? They cant be made of adamantium through and through, otherwise he would be able to flex his wrist.

Oh and more to the topic at hand, I think Sabertooth wont be able to do more than superficial damage to Collosus. So metal head would win eventually, wether you beleive he can rip Sab's arms off or just pound him to death.

Originally posted by Onikirimaru
Ok, let me just impart my knowledge of anatomy on you guys to try to help this along.

There are many types of joints, Synovial, Fibrous, immovable, cartligous. Well, ok there are 4 types of joints. Anyway. There is never a point where bones directly connect to each other. "movable" joints, like the shoulder, elbow, knees, hips, etc etc, are encapselted by a fluid filled sac. (when you dislocate a shoulder, its still in the synovial capsule, and you can pop it back in, it doesnt fall out into your hand) This sac serves the pupose of housing the bones, lubricatiing them (otherwise moving them would be extremely painful) and also housing anything else like bursa for the joint. (your kneecap is a bursa, a pad like tissue) Synovial joints also are for things like the bones of the hand and feet, although they dont have alot of motion, they still can move around a little bit. Fibrous and cartilagounus joints are less moveable, yet still movable a bit. You find this in certin places in the spinal cord, where the vertebral disks are (althouth the spinal cord also has synovial joints in the vertebrea parts that move) Synovial capsules are just connective tissue, and arnt exactly very sturdy, muscle and ligaments, bone formation, and the capsule all come together and keep the bones together.

It would be impossbile for wolverine to have molecular boneded bones, as if adamantium is boned to his cells. Bones are constantly breaking down and building up. New cells are born in the marrow, which i'll get to in a second, and as the grow older grow out, until they are finally destroyed and recycled to new cells. If his bones were bonded with adamantium, then his cells wouldnt know wtf to do. The adamantium would prevent cells from being broken down, and there wouldnt be room for new cells to grow, and those cells wouldnt have admantium. It would be really crazy. Wolverine's adamantium probably works like a cage, it coats the outside of his bones with microscopic "slits" in it, becase if it was completed coated, WOlverine would fall over dead within a few days, even with his healing factor. Bones MAKE blood, red bone marrow is where your blood comes from. Your blood is also how your body heals, and last checked, stays alive. Without his blood being able to get out of his bones, he would fall over dead. There has to be space for the blood to get into his body, and for blood to get into his bones, otherwise his bones would die. They need blood to live too.

My puzzlment is wtf are those metal things in his hands his claws pop out of. They are made of adamantium, because when he was bone claw he didnt have them, but they have to extend down into his claw channels to protect them, otherwise hed bleed a bit everytime his claws popped out. Were they implanted during weapon X? They cant be made of adamantium through and through, otherwise he would be able to flex his wrist.

proving even more that real world stuff is usually discarded in the comic verse. 😉

Even with all that, since it is a comic book we don't need to worry about "shoulda, coulda, woulda". After all look at cyclops and the thrid law of motion. . .

Originally posted by Onikirimaru
Ok, let me just impart my knowledge of anatomy on you guys to try to help this along.

There are many types of joints, Synovial, Fibrous, immovable, cartligous. Well, ok there are 4 types of joints. Anyway. There is never a point where bones directly connect to each other. "movable" joints, like the shoulder, elbow, knees, hips, etc etc, are encapselted by a fluid filled sac. (when you dislocate a shoulder, its still in the synovial capsule, and you can pop it back in, it doesnt fall out into your hand) This sac serves the pupose of housing the bones, lubricatiing them (otherwise moving them would be extremely painful) and also housing anything else like bursa for the joint. (your kneecap is a bursa, a pad like tissue) Synovial joints also are for things like the bones of the hand and feet, although they dont have alot of motion, they still can move around a little bit. Fibrous and cartilagounus joints are less moveable, yet still movable a bit. You find this in certin places in the spinal cord, where the vertebral disks are (althouth the spinal cord also has synovial joints in the vertebrea parts that move) Synovial capsules are just connective tissue, and arnt exactly very sturdy, muscle and ligaments, bone formation, and the capsule all come together and keep the bones together.

It would be impossbile for wolverine to have molecular boneded bones, as if adamantium is boned to his cells. Bones are constantly breaking down and building up. New cells are born in the marrow, which i'll get to in a second, and as the grow older grow out, until they are finally destroyed and recycled to new cells. If his bones were bonded with adamantium, then his cells wouldnt know wtf to do. The adamantium would prevent cells from being broken down, and there wouldnt be room for new cells to grow, and those cells wouldnt have admantium. It would be really crazy. Wolverine's adamantium probably works like a cage, it coats the outside of his bones with microscopic "slits" in it, becase if it was completed coated, WOlverine would fall over dead within a few days, even with his healing factor. Bones MAKE blood, red bone marrow is where your blood comes from. Your blood is also how your body heals, and last checked, stays alive. Without his blood being able to get out of his bones, he would fall over dead. There has to be space for the blood to get into his body, and for blood to get into his bones, otherwise his bones would die. They need blood to live too.

My puzzlment is wtf are those metal things in his hands his claws pop out of. They are made of adamantium, because when he was bone claw he didnt have them, but they have to extend down into his claw channels to protect them, otherwise hed bleed a bit everytime his claws popped out. Were they implanted during weapon X? They cant be made of adamantium through and through, otherwise he would be able to flex his wrist.

Great post,but keep in mind that blood clots heal faster than concussive damage does...

Originally posted by Onikirimaru
Ok, let me just impart my knowledge of anatomy on you guys to try to help this along.

There are many types of joints, Synovial, Fibrous, immovable, cartligous. Well, ok there are 4 types of joints. Anyway. There is never a point where bones directly connect to each other. "movable" joints, like the shoulder, elbow, knees, hips, etc etc, are encapselted by a fluid filled sac. (when you dislocate a shoulder, its still in the synovial capsule, and you can pop it back in, it doesnt fall out into your hand) This sac serves the pupose of housing the bones, lubricatiing them (otherwise moving them would be extremely painful) and also housing anything else like bursa for the joint. (your kneecap is a bursa, a pad like tissue) Synovial joints also are for things like the bones of the hand and feet, although they dont have alot of motion, they still can move around a little bit. Fibrous and cartilagounus joints are less moveable, yet still movable a bit. You find this in certin places in the spinal cord, where the vertebral disks are (althouth the spinal cord also has synovial joints in the vertebrea parts that move) Synovial capsules are just connective tissue, and arnt exactly very sturdy, muscle and ligaments, bone formation, and the capsule all come together and keep the bones together.

It would be impossbile for wolverine to have molecular boneded bones, as if adamantium is boned to his cells. Bones are constantly breaking down and building up. New cells are born in the marrow, which i'll get to in a second, and as the grow older grow out, until they are finally destroyed and recycled to new cells. If his bones were bonded with adamantium, then his cells wouldnt know wtf to do. The adamantium would prevent cells from being broken down, and there wouldnt be room for new cells to grow, and those cells wouldnt have admantium. It would be really crazy. Wolverine's adamantium probably works like a cage, it coats the outside of his bones with microscopic "slits" in it, becase if it was completed coated, WOlverine would fall over dead within a few days, even with his healing factor. Bones MAKE blood, red bone marrow is where your blood comes from. Your blood is also how your body heals, and last checked, stays alive. Without his blood being able to get out of his bones, he would fall over dead. There has to be space for the blood to get into his body, and for blood to get into his bones, otherwise his bones would die. They need blood to live too.

My puzzlment is wtf are those metal things in his hands his claws pop out of. They are made of adamantium, because when he was bone claw he didnt have them, but they have to extend down into his claw channels to protect them, otherwise hed bleed a bit everytime his claws popped out. Were they implanted during weapon X? They cant be made of adamantium through and through, otherwise he would be able to flex his wrist.

Excellent post man, as opposed to your sig which for some reason makes me sad 🙁

However, as Creshosk has pointed out, you only prove that real life anatomy, together with physics, and science have a small place (not no place at all, but a small one) in the comic book Universes.

Explain if you can people creating/surviving black holes, people flying around and dragging the Earth around 🤨 and a crapload more things and feats.

The point that is being made about Wolverine and Sabertooth is that even though logic and real-world anatomy/science would imply that their adamantium skeletons cannot exist, or can with certain features, they do. And just as real world anatomy/science would imply that they shouldn't be bonded at the joints, etc., they are as has been proven by past feats.

Idea: past feats surpass real-world logic and anatomy/science when it comes to comic book characters.

~wickerman~

Logic is like a blender, Physics and anatomy and the like are like what you put in.

Logic can still exist, Real world logic is just a tool for processing the data.

Physics and anatomy is the data that's to be processed. As are the comics feats and stats.

Originally posted by Creshosk
Logic is like a blender, Physics and anatomy and the like are like what you put in.

Logic can still exist, Real world logic is just a tool for processing the data.

Physics and anatomy is the data that's to be processed. As are the comics feats and stats.

yeah, it's a nice big mix-a-lot. However, past facts are usually much much MUCH more relevant than logic.

And you know it 😖hifty:

~wickerman~

Originally posted by Wickerman
yeah, it's a nice big mix-a-lot. However, past facts are usually much much MUCH more relevant than logic.

And you know it 😖hifty:

~wickerman~

What has been established in the comics is more relevant than real world anatomy or physics.

Originally posted by Creshosk
Not more releveant than logic. Logic is the tool that allows you to see that real world anatomy and physics have very little place in comics.

What has been established in the comics is more relevant than real world anatomy or physics.

pish-posh. Sticks and Stones may break my bones but semantics won't. wait....that's not what the saying was....was it? 😕

Ahem....anyway, that's exactly what i was trying to say. that what's already been established in the comics is more relevant than real world anatomy or physics, or facts that would LOGICALLY occur IRL....

~wickerman~

Originally posted by Creshosk
Not more releveant than logic. Logic is the tool that allows you to see that real world anatomy and physics have very little place in comics.

What has been established in the comics is more relevant than real world anatomy or physics.

colossus has his stuff defined, breathing underwater etc., thats a difference.

Originally posted by Tha C-Master
logic is reasoning, not just anatomy, if its defined within his powers cool, otherwise no, plain and simple, I'm tired of assumptions.

colossus has his stuff defined, breathing underwater etc., thats a difference.

Yes, but it has been defined due to past feats and events, not due to real-world reasoning right? 😉

~wickerman~

Originally posted by Tha C-Master
logic is reasoning, not just anatomy,

Logic is not Anatomy
Logic is not Physics
Logic is not Past Events
Logic is not the data, Logic is the processor.

Logic is if or else and greater than less than then. Logic is + - = / * sqrt ^ % . . . Logic is just the data processor.

Anatomy, physics, Past events, numbers are the data that logic processes.

1+1=2
2+2=4
10*10=100
10*12=120
10+634-((23* 456)/345)+12=625.6

What is in red is the data. What is in blue is the logic. Logic is just for processing the data.

Well, Im not surprised question of can Collosus beat Sabertooth turned into a theological debate on the way the universe works.

My purpose in these lengthy scientificy explanations is to help people understand how the body is suppose to work, and also to show how little of a place logic has to do in these discussions, though we often try to discuss things logically. At least some of us.

Now, I understand "comic physics" are not real and you have to let things go, however Logan often defies even his own logic. Let me explain, you use Cyke and the law of the whooty who, whatever, Im assuming you mean the one where it says if so much force goes this way, this force goes this way, and Cyke head should fly off. Well, "Cyclops Logic" say Cyke can shoot beams out of his head, and not worry about that law. He does this everytime he says "Optic blast" showing that he consistently doesnt need to worry about it. "Wolverine Logic" says Logan can have admantium bones and claws, and he heals like a normal human but at an excessive rate, and also has some super immune stuff. However, the reason why he is often the subject of heated debates, is he consitently defies his own "Wolverine Logic" Getting his arm burned off but still connected, being evicerated and gutted and regening organs, absorbing enough concussive force to instant kill people and not even being knocked unconscious, all are never explained even in "Wolverine Logic" since a normal human healing and normal human anatomy can not do these things.

Thats all Im gonna say for now. A few minutes ago I went on another anatomical treatise to try and explain Wolverines strength level, but my comp crashed and I lost it all, and although I do have far to much freetime, I dont have the patience to type it again. Maybe Ill save it for another wolvie thread, or for later.

Originally posted by Onikirimaru
Well, Im not surprised question of can Collosus beat Sabertooth turned into a theological debate on the way the universe works.

My purpose in these lengthy scientificy explanations is to help people understand how the body is suppose to work, and also to show how little of a place logic has to do in these discussions, though we often try to discuss things logically. At least some of us.

Now, I understand "comic physics" are not real and you have to let things go, however Logan often defies even his own logic. Let me explain, you use Cyke and the law of the whooty who, whatever, Im assuming you mean the one where it says if so much force goes this way, this force goes this way, and Cyke head should fly off. Well, "Cyclops Logic" say Cyke can shoot beams out of his head, and not worry about that law. He does this everytime he says "Optic blast" showing that he consistently doesnt need to worry about it. "Wolverine Logic" says Logan can have admantium bones and claws, and he heals like a normal human but at an excessive rate, and also has some super immune stuff. However, the reason why he is often the subject of heated debates, is he consitently defies his own "Wolverine Logic" Getting his arm burned off but still connected, being evicerated and gutted and regening organs, absorbing enough concussive force to instant kill people and not even being knocked unconscious, all are never explained even in "Wolverine Logic" since a normal human healing and normal human anatomy can not do these things.

Thats all Im gonna say for now. A few minutes ago I went on another anatomical treatise to try and explain Wolverines strength level, but my comp crashed and I lost it all, and although I do have far to much freetime, I dont have the patience to type it again. Maybe Ill save it for another wolvie thread, or for later.

"Getting his arm burned off but still connected" Seeing as how this is what happens like 100% of the time in 616, then this happeneing again would be well within his own "Wolverine Logic".

"absorbing enough concussive force to instant kill people and not even being knocked unconscious" this is also something that happens the majority of the time. So this happening again is also well within "Wolverine Logic" Heck he did this in the fight with the Wrecker too.

"since a normal human healing and normal human anatomy can not do these things" Since "normal human anatomy" doesn't include claws, an excelerated healing nor the ability to absorb the kinetic force required to in using one's own's attacks. I'd say that "normal human anatomy" is superceded by "comic human anatomy". And particularly by "Wolverine Anatomy". . .

Originally posted by Onikirimaru
Well, Im not surprised question of can Collosus beat Sabertooth turned into a theological debate on the way the universe works.

My purpose in these lengthy scientificy explanations is to help people understand how the body is suppose to work, and also to show how little of a place logic has to do in these discussions, though we often try to discuss things logically. At least some of us.

Now, I understand "comic physics" are not real and you have to let things go, however Logan often defies even his own logic. Let me explain, you use Cyke and the law of the whooty who, whatever, Im assuming you mean the one where it says if so much force goes this way, this force goes this way, and Cyke head should fly off. Well, "Cyclops Logic" say Cyke can shoot beams out of his head, and not worry about that law. He does this everytime he says "Optic blast" showing that he consistently doesnt need to worry about it. "Wolverine Logic" says Logan can have admantium bones and claws, and he heals like a normal human but at an excessive rate, and also has some super immune stuff. However, the reason why he is often the subject of heated debates, is he consitently defies his own "Wolverine Logic" Getting his arm burned off but still connected, being evicerated and gutted and regening organs, absorbing enough concussive force to instant kill people and not even being knocked unconscious, all are never explained even in "Wolverine Logic" since a normal human healing and normal human anatomy can not do these things.

Thats all Im gonna say for now. A few minutes ago I went on another anatomical treatise to try and explain Wolverines strength level, but my comp crashed and I lost it all, and although I do have far to much freetime, I dont have the patience to type it again. Maybe Ill save it for another wolvie thread, or for later.

Exactly like Cordera said, all of this is well within the "Wolverine logic". it happens often enough to be included in the "Wolverine Logic" whether a character states "It's in his ability to do that" or not. It doesn't matter if the feature is on marveldirectory.com or not, it doesn't matter if someone says it's there or not, but since he does it so often, it's included in his "Wolverine Logic" as you say.

You're correct in saying that although real world anatomy/physics don't apply in comic books, there is a certain comic book logic, and it's sometimes broken. But not in this case.

Also.....this is the colossus vs. SABERTOOTH thread, not vs. wolverine ❌

~wickerman~

Originally posted by Wickerman
Yes, but it has been defined due to past feats and events, not due to real-world reasoning right? 😉

~wickerman~

Comics revolve around the real world like it or not, but wolverine's adamantium hasn't, and it is an assumption, that has been proven wrong.

I'm not saying colossus can do it, I'm saying that it isn't a big hunk of metal thats unbelievably penetrable.

Originally posted by Tha C-Master
No its been defined in colossus' stats, unlike wolverine's inconsistent events.

Comics revolve around the real world like it or not, but wolverine's adamantium hasn't, and it is an assumption, that has been proven wrong.

I'm not saying colossus can do it, I'm saying that it isn't a big hunk of metal thats unbelievably penetrable.

1. In my past post where i said "just like Cordera said" i meant Creshosk....sorry....tired.

2. Stats that you find either online or in manuals, are also derived from their feats. The fact that they're clear in Colossus' entry and they're not in Logan's entry may very well be stupidity of those writing the stats.

~wickerman~

Originally posted by Wickerman
1. In my past post where i said "just like Cordera said" i meant Creshosk....sorry....tired.

2. Stats that you find either online or in manuals, are also derived from their feats. The fact that they're clear in Colossus' entry and they're not in Logan's entry may very well be stupidity of those writing the stats.

~wickerman~

The feats that contradict themselves, not based on human anatomy, not that colossus could/couldn't do it, its that his skeleton can be charged, and it can be ripped out of his socket, and that logan said so, and that there are plates to his head...

Thats why... 😮‍💨

Originally posted by Tha C-Master
The feats that contradict themselves, not based on human anatomy, not that colossus could/couldn't do it, its that his skeleton can be charged, and it can be ripped out of his socket, and that logan said so, and that there are plates to his head...

Thats why... 😮‍💨

Well yes, but initially you said that "if its defined within his powers cool".

All i'm trying to say is that regardless of what a statbook says, there have been plenty of occassions where Logan has been shown to not "lose" his bones so to say, giving the whole "ripping out arms because of cartilage notbeing bonded, etc. etc." argument a big problem. Therefore, it's only a logical deduction that it's defined within his CHARACTER, not powers (i'll give you that) to not have his arms/limbs ripped out via force, due to non-bonding of cartilages, ligaments, etc. etc.

I distinctly remember Logan also saying if he takes a strong enough beating he can die, but i've never seen that happen either, and he's taken pretty strong beatings 🙁 . That's why i take feats into consideration more than what characters say, or what statbooks say. Statbooks might be based off feats, but they can often make mistakes.

And smoking kills cry

*lights another Marlboro red* droolio

ps: while this discussion on wolverine's bodily functions and how his character ignores the powers he's supposed to have and whether that should be canon or not is really interesting, it's also really off topic. Sure, Wolvie and Sabes can be very similar, but i think we're taking it a bit too far ❌

~wickerman~

Originally posted by Wickerman
Well yes, but initially you said that "if its defined within his powers cool".

All i'm trying to say is that regardless of what a statbook says, there have been plenty of occassions where Logan has been shown to not "lose" his bones so to say, giving the whole "ripping out arms because of cartilage notbeing bonded, etc. etc." argument a big problem. Therefore, it's only a logical deduction that it's defined within his CHARACTER, not powers (i'll give you that) to not have his arms/limbs ripped out via force, due to non-bonding of cartilages, ligaments, etc. etc.

I distinctly remember Logan also saying if he takes a strong enough beating he can die, but i've never seen that happen either, and he's taken pretty strong beatings 🙁 . That's why i take feats into consideration more than what characters say, or what statbooks say. Statbooks might be based off feats, but they can often make mistakes.

And smoking kills cry

*lights another Marlboro red* droolio

ps: while this discussion on wolverine's bodily functions and how his character ignores the powers he's supposed to have and whether that should be canon or not is really interesting, it's also really off topic. Sure, Wolvie and Sabes can be very similar, but i think we're taking it a bit too far ❌

~wickerman~

Logan can lose his organs, and die easier than it seems, he takes damage within a human rate.

Now if storm can fly, she can.

You are saying the same thing as I, it takes alot, but you have showings that haven't shown it done.

You also can't GAUGe the hits being delivered, just because a class 100 hit them, doesn't mean its a class 100 blow, in fact it rarely does...