Originally posted by birthoftheforce
Think of it like this. jedi are going to be super speeding towards ragnos, force pushing ragnos, throwing rubble at ragnos attempting to duel with ragnos and a hell of a lot more than that.
Super speed = getting pushed back
force pushing Ragnos = might not have any affect
attempt to duel Ragnos = you have to get to him and (see above) that's going to be hard
there are ten thousand jedi in the temple. only about 15 of those jedi will be killed by the droids. About 50 jedi would be able to attack ragnos at a time whether using sabers of the force. Do you really think ragnos will be able to deal with all of that. No he wont.
a)
Their aren't 10,000 Jedi - where did you get that number from ?
b)
The droids might kill every form VI (Niman) user in the temple and that's going to be 90 % of all Jedi that are in there.
you can go soon nemesis just answer this
Think of it like this. jedi are going to be super speeding towards ragnos, force pushing ragnos, throwing rubble at ragnos attempting to duel with ragnos and a hell of a lot more than that. there are ten thousand jedi in the temple. only about 15 of those jedi will be killed by the droids. About 50 jedi would be able to attack ragnos at a time whether using sabers of the force. Do you really think ragnos will be able to deal with all of that. No he wont.
Originally posted by birthoftheforceLike it has been said about 47 times before, Jedi do not work En Masse.
Think of it like this. jedi are going to be super speeding towards ragnos, force pushing ragnos, throwing rubble at ragnos attempting to duel with ragnos and a hell of a lot more than that. there are ten thousand jedi in the temple. only about 15 of those jedi will be killed by the droids. About 50 jedi would be able to attack ragnos at a time whether using sabers of the force. Do you really think ragnos will be able to deal with all of that. No he wont.you still havent answered to that nemesis or tangerine god or fishy.
They would kill each other doing what you said before they took out Ragnos. And do you really think Ragnos would be dealing with them one at a time?
Originally posted by Dark Nemesis
I'm really quite done arguing with you folks. You're hopeless. Go on. Have your opinion. I'm done arguing on this forum. You people are crazy when it comes to a scenario you don't want to accept.
I can say the exact same thing to you over not believe me that Ragnos would lose, so get your head out of the clouds and stop moping.
You really want to tell me that a Jedi can't escape a part of a building collapsing meaning: Keeping stuff in the air that is falling down on them ? Now you take a "huge" group of Jedi and want to tell me that they can't prevent parts of a building from collapsing by using the force or at least keep them in the air until they have passed the threatened area or (to make it more easily) to use force speed and get away before something hits them ?If Yoda can lift starfighters and that big metal thing that Dooku threw on Anakin and Obi-Wan and AotC than a huge group of Jedi (20 ? 30 ? 100 ?) should be able to keep the parts of a collapsing room in the air or at least use force speed to get out of there (I guess if TPM Obi-Wan is able to do that other Padawans should be able to do that too - not to mention Knights and Masters).
And during the time Yoda picked up the starfighter and the pillar, he was immobilized. You saw Dooku manage to RUN AWAY in the same span that Yoda was tossing the pillar away. What do you think Ragnos is going to do while they are holding up the roof? Stand there and eat popcorn?
And again: In melee combat...yes. Ragnos is using a Sith Sword. That's 10 or 20 pounds of metal that he has to wield against a weapon that actually doesn't have any weight. So there is no way for Ragnos to parry lightsaber attacks at least not when you have Yoda attacking him and thereby he would get killed.
So now Yoda would somehow manage to beat Ragnos alone? Look, a lightsaber may be lighter, but it is also hilt heavy, there's no blade for counterbalance. If you've ever bothered swinging a broadsword, you'd realize that the difficulty is bringing the sword up, not actually the swing, where the momentum of the mass is enough to carry it through. Ragnos is almost certainly strong enough to wave it around. And as we see in JK (the code, not gameplay experience), you can move that sword around pretty damn fast.
I already said that he might be able to destroy the entire Council before they can get to him but IF Mace or Yoda is going to enter melee combat he's getting killed because he simply can't defend himself against somebody who is that fast with a lightsaber because you simply cannot swing a normal sword around as fast as Mace or Yoda would do with a lightsaber. Give him a lightsaber and training with that and he might waste Yoda and Mace but NOT with a Sith sword in his hands.
So somebody like Naga Sadow would have instantly switched to the lightsaber the first time he saw it. No, that didn't happen? Oh wait...
A Sith sword isn't so cumbersome and unwieldly, especially in the hands of a great warrior, that it sucks.
In the Battle of Hastings, there were strong men located on the hill swinging 6 feet bearded axes. And do you know what? They were flat out OWNING people with lighter swords. What makes you think the lighter, more mobile lightsaber would do much against Ragnos' and his fearsome sword?
Ragnos isn't that far above Yoda. He will beat him, but not by a huge amount. It will be about the same as Dooku vs. Obi-wan IMO. If you throw in Obi-wan, Anakin, Plo Koon, Depa Bilaba, Sora Bulq, he will lose.
What do you have to support this?
For the droids. If, like you say, the droids will do most of the killing, then in is unreasonable to say that the Jedi won't sense this and attack them. Mace alonce could take them, but it would likly take at least five minutes. He could lose to the droids, but its unlikly. To cement his victory, through in Luminara and Barriss. Together, they will kill the droids in five minutes tops.
Confirm?
If you don't believe me that Mace could kill these droids, then watch clone wars. He kills several hundred super battle droids.
Substantiate? How do super battle droids correlate to HKs?
In this battle, Mace will be the pivot point. If he manages to kill all the droids, then the Jedi win, with maybe a tenth of the Order dying. If one of the droids gets lucky and kills Mace, then the Jedi will probably lose closer to half of the Order because he is the powerhouse for killing the droids. Luminara and Barriss could take the droids without Mace if they had some help from others such as Shaak Ti ect.
Sustain this please.
Originally posted by Darth_Glentract
Prove Ragnos can blow up a star.
Prove that the jedi can kill someone of Ragnos' caliber.
Prove that HK droids are easy for even Mace to kill.
Prove that the jedi in the temple can work cohesively to defeat Ragnos and his squad.
YOU prove something.
Quit trying to be mister "I am taking a debate class I must know the ins and outs of debating", Glentract. You haven't made a single logical idea regarding this thread and in fact, you had given up until you suddenly got backup, and then you grew the juevos to get back on the anti-Ragnos bandwagon. But you sure can pick apart Avis. Avis, I might add, isn't nearly as accomplished a debater as myself or Illustrious, and you can't hold a candle to our points. All you're doing is riding the wave and picking at things, like you're gonna topple Ragnos like a house of cards. Seriously, Glentract, I have no respect for your debating style. I may be mean and cutthroat, but you're just plain bad overall.
tangerine how do you know how jedi work. are you a jedi. i didnt think so so you dont know how they work. if ther outnumber ragnos like that of cource they are going to outnumber ragnos en masse as you call it. and avis even the people on your side such as fishy and nemesis have said that you tlk shit
Originally posted by Dark Nemesis
I'm really quite done arguing with you folks. You're hopeless. Go on. Have your opinion. I'm done arguing on this forum. You people are crazy when it comes to a scenario you don't want to accept. [/B]
Erm...Janus...
If the thread starter says that in this scenario Ragnos isn't allowed to tear down the building and people here start arguing that he will waste huge groups of Jedi by tear down parts of the building I'm pretty sure that this is against the rules of the thread.
That is basically Ragnos + droids vs the entire Jedi Order without having Ragnos tearing the entire place down (what he most likely would do). And I don't see how Ragnos and the droids are going to win this.
You know that I argued in Ragnos favour often enough but he simply isn't going to win this with the rules given. If he is allowed to tear down the building or blow Coruscant up there would be no need for a discussion. But Ragnos + droids in "normal combat" vs god-only-knows-how-many Jedi ?