Originally posted by Piedmon
Btw, Cap still has his energy shield. It fans out of his left glove. He can also turn it into an energy quarterstaff. So much for lack of weapons.
He doesn't have his energy shield. He gave that up as soon as he got the real shield back.
And if he did, the Beast would simply deactivate it with his own Shi'ar tech.
Sigh.
Beast wins this fight, at least 9/10 times.
I think Cap is great, but not against this kind of character. Beast really would just bounce around him, not being hit in the slightest, while he just hits Cap with a barrage of blows. Then of course there's the whole neck-snapping thing that Beast could SO easily do.
Beast has this fight in the bag.
Boy am I surprised at the responses.
1) Lot's of people worship Captain America's fighting ability because he comes out on top in his own stories and Avenger's stories against impossible odds. I don't think this originates from pure fanboyism.
The guy can take it and dish it. Fighting off hundreds of soldiers armed with all sorts of weaponry (every other issue of Captain America), fighting a guy who can lift 30-50 tons like the Wrecker (many Avenger's storylines) or Loki's subordinates (even his son Fenris in the Ragnarok storyline that concluded Thor),... hell he could kick the crap out of a lot of people because he's just a tactical fighting genius. Although you could say Beast beats him in every stat like strength, speed, agility, intelligence; Cap's tactics always win out at the end of the day. People usually only get the better of him when he's surprised or overwhelmed. And I don't think the Beast could do either. Cap would just find a way, he'd feint with a jumpkick to get Beast off the ground into a vertical leap and then before Beast lands, Cap would discover the right throwing vector of his shield so that it bounces off 3-4 times in that Danger Room before smacking Beast in the back of the head or in a limb disabling him.
2) Some might say Beast would catch his jumpkick but Cap fights just as well in close and would probably jab his throat or hit a pressure point. People might say Beast could simply dodge the ricocheting shield since Beast is himself, I suppose a near genius intellect. But I think only Reed Richard's level genius can accurately predict in the heat of battle those precise angles (Richards fights a Wizard psi-construct in Onslaught and bounces around at precise angles to smoosh him even at high rate of speed). And what's to stop Beast from doing all these things to Cap? He's just not as good a fighter and even if he were, Cap would counter it. He just exhibits that kind of tactical genius all the time. Guy would use Beast's strength against him like he always does and I doubt Beast's agility is great enough to overwhelm Cap. I doubt even Spider-man's agility could overwhelm Cap on it's own. Besides, Beast is a big doodoo head monkey. 😛
Beast 8/10
Simply putBeast possese every single physical advantage over Captain America, I don't think anyone can argue otherwise.
Fighting ability, in this regard Captain America edges out beast. Not because of more skll but more formal training, where as Beast generally relies on his increased abilities.
Experience, more or less the same. I know that Cap has been fighting for longer but does anyone here really thing he has gone through that much more interms of super powered opponents than Beast. The X-men have faced as manyand as powerful challlenges as the avengers have.
Tactics, Cap might be considered a tactical genius however that advantage is almost completly nullified by this opponent. See not only is beast an Avenger but he knows Captain Amaerica's abilites as well as anyone. He understands the properties of the sheild and he knows how to watch out for Cap's little tricks. Meaning that physicall abilities are going to play a much larger role in this fight than mental ones.
Why Cap loses? Cap was beaten by Wonderman. He feinted to make cap guard then he simply grabbed the sheild and slammed Cap into the dirt for the K.O. Wonderman is no tactical genius but he is much stronger than Cap and he understands his fighting style, same thing with beast. Cap has no real surprises for beast.
This isn't to say that Cap can't win (I'm sure some one will be allong shortly to say "Dude, Cap always wins he will find a away!!!"😉 just that the tables are stacked against him and in order for him to get a mojority win people have to start throwing him bones, by adding things to the scenerio to make him win.
Originally posted by Warmonger
Beast 8/10Simply putBeast possese every single physical advantage over Captain America, I don't think anyone can argue otherwise.
Fighting ability, in this regard Captain America edges out beast. Not because of more skll but more formal training, where as Beast generally relies on his increased abilities.
Experience, more or less the same. I know that Cap has been fighting for longer but does anyone here really thing he has gone through that much more interms of super powered opponents than Beast. The X-men have faced as manyand as powerful challlenges as the avengers have.
Tactics, Cap might be considered a tactical genius however that advantage is almost completly nullified by this opponent. See not only is beast an Avenger but he knows Captain Amaerica's abilites as well as anyone. He understands the properties of the sheild and he knows how to watch out for Cap's little tricks. Meaning that physicall abilities are going to play a much larger role in this fight than mental ones.
Why Cap loses? Cap was beaten by Wonderman. He feinted to make cap guard then he simply grabbed the sheild and slammed Cap into the dirt for the K.O. Wonderman is no tactical genius but he is much stronger than Cap and he understands his fighting style, same thing with beast. Cap has no real surprises for beast.
This isn't to say that Cap can't win (I'm sure some one will be allong shortly to say "Dude, Cap always wins he will find a away!!!"😉 just that the tables are stacked against him and in order for him to get a mojority win people have to start throwing him bones, by adding things to the scenerio to make him win.
Thank you, Warmonger. Couldn't have said it better myself.
I still don't understand this at all. Let's take a comparitive look over at the DC universe. Batman vs Bane. I mean... does anyone think even when Bane outdoes Batman in physical stat scenarios, that Bane could beat Batman 8/10 or 7/10 like you guys are saying is the case with Cap vs Beast?
Additionally, Wonderman has the capability to overwhelm Cap which I've conceded is one of 2 ways to take Cap down. His strength is probably at least class 9. Beast is nowhere near that figure in any of his stats.
Secondly, just take at recent books like Astonishing X-Men and Wolverine. Beast fights Wolverine on two occasions, the first instance ending before it could pan out with neither side looking definitevly overpowering and the second having Beast being put down like a mangy mutt with one deft move. You saying Cap couldn't do the same? I don't believe that in the slightest and considering that Cap has fought guys more powerful than Beast and won and with more powers than Beast and has won, I don't see how he Beast could take him down even at all. Soe examples being ones I've mentioned before, another one I can think of right off the bat when he basically beats up Baron Blood who is superhuman in his own right and even Atlanteans like Hannah in the somewhat recent "ice" storyline in Cap. She's an elite guard of Namor and she can't keep up with Cap in the gym during acrobaticv exercises.
Face it guys, Cap is just too good to be taken down by the likes of someone like Beast. Spider-man is a better bet with his increased stats and abilities and even I think that's not guaranteed.
Thats all veery interesting but really what does Cap bring to the table. Years of fighting experince, an unbreakable sheld that he can toss pretty accurately and powerfully, extemely high stamina and great fighting skills. Oh and a lot fo heart.
But it doesn't seem to be enought o beat Beast....
Beast while he hasn't been fighting as long as Captain America has been fighting and training for a very long time. He trains almost as much as Cpatain America does, however he is physically superior to Captain America in pretty much every way, save for maybe stamina. So Cap's experience edge gets cut pretty siggnificantly, how many villinas do the Avengers fight that the X-Men couldn't take on as well?
Sheild: He will never hit beast with that thing period. Beast can dodge gunfire and blasts from guys like Cyclops who are just as accurate as Cap while taking a nap. Also Beast knows that the sheild bounces of of things so Cap isn't going to get him with that old trick. Also it would be a simple matter for Beast to merely grasp the shild and body slam Cap much like Wonderman did. Sure beast isn't a class 90 but he is about a 10 I belive, however as far as Cap is concerend the difference is entirley negligable. Does it make a differnce wheter bEast can lift 10,000 pounds or 180,000, when it comes to Cap's 230 pound ass it s still ike body lsamming a two year old. Even if Cap sin't unconscious, he would still be dazed and have the wind knocked out of him easily allowing beast to get the K.O.
As for fighting skills, sure Captain America has better fighting skills. If Beast were to try to have a kind of fist fight with Cap he might very well lose, but Beast knows what Cap is capable of so isnstead he would use his agility and reflexesto run circles around Cap and maybe dash in for a heavy strike or two simply to wear Cap down. As well as avoid or evencatch his sheild if he throws it. Also Wolverine should by alrights beat Cap too. I mean Cap has trouble with Batroc the Leaper.
Finaly there is heart. Or is there? Heart is not an actual attribute that means anythign in these fights. Heart is simply the editorial backdoor, to give outclassed people a fighting chance.
In a comic book Cap woudl be placed ina scenerio that would allow him to utilize something to get the win. There is no stated scenerio so by default its a featureless arena.
Y'know I just can't let this go... so as I was sifting through some comics, I just picked up a couple of things I thought might shed some light onto how much better Cap is than Beast. Mind you, I had like dozens of examples, but here's a few...
Can Beast destroy a Sentinel by himself? Maybe... but I think he'd get squished more often than not.
Originally posted by OneDumbG0
Y'know I just can't let this go... so as I was sifting through some comics, I just picked up a couple of things I thought might shed some light onto how much better Cap is than Beast. Mind you, I had like dozens of examples, but here's a few...Can Beast destroy a Sentinel by himself? Maybe... but I think he'd get squished more often than not.
Originally posted by OneDumbG0
Lady Deathstrike may not be as strong as Beast, but is she as ferocious and as skilled as a feral Beast? I think so. I would even say, she would win against Beast in a fight very handily... Cap doesn't even get tagged...