Originally posted by King KAMWhole lotta good it did ole McCoy in this fight... If Wolvie can do it in one deft move, so can Cap! 😠
Besides the fact that beat has fast enough reflexes to dodge caps sheild, is is faster,stronger,more durable,more agile, and has claws and fangs....if he wants to he kills cap, but will he actually lose that much control?
I scanned a part of that fight already and pointed out that Danger was obviously not at the same strength as she was during the fight in the Mansion, so what does that prove? And what are the counters to the posts that I made? Wolvie took Beast down in one move and I contend that Cap can probably do the same. Cap can destroy a Sentinel, take down lady Deathstrike, beat a Skrull without a sweat and make a guy as strong as Thunderstrike look foolish.
If physical stats were the end all be all of this vs forum or of any comics, then nobody in their right mind would ever think Batman could take a single fight against Superman. And this particular thread's fight is nowhere near that kind of disparity.
While your scan makes a decent case for Wolvie vs Beast, it doesn't do anything for this match.
Two, we have to take your word for it that Wolvie took Beast down in one move, you only posted one page of the fight, maybe you should at leat post the intro to the fight.
Beast is faster and stronger than Lady Deathstrike as well, and he is a lot more familiar with Cap's fighting style.
Yes Beast could take down a Sentinel its one of the things the X-Men train for.
I agree that physical abilities are the be all and end all, but as I explained above the less tangible qualities that Cap posses don't give him any definiate edge.
Also to me a fight thread is never really about who can beat who. It is about who posses which advantage, over his opponent. Beast possess quite a large amount of advantages over Cap. He doesn't win all the time but the odds are in his favor. If you were a vegas bookie and people wanted you to pick a winner, would you tell them that "Cap has a heart of Gold!" or "Cap can beat such and such"? No you would take an unbiased appraisal at the two characters and see that Beast has to work less to win than Captain America does. Then you would give him odds. Which is why I said Beast 8/10.
Sure Cap could win but the odds favor Beast.
Actually, I'd even give more odds to the classic, more ape-like Beast. I mean, he's awesome right now, but I preferred him SO much more as the ape-like Beast. I think he was just a better fighter and such. And maybe even more agile.
I think Classic Beast would rock Cap even harder than current Beast.
Originally posted by wolverine8888
naw actauly all of beast abilties were up graded thou I like classic betetr he slower weaker and a worse fight beast has neevr been a very good fighter skill wise . the new animal one is more ruthless when he lets him self go.
No way, dude. Beast is a top notch fighter. He's not up in the ranks of Captain America, but he's a superb hand to hand fighter. Especially when he was ape-like I believe. Now he's just stronger and faster, and has the ability to go even more feral than before. I agree that he's still really cool, but I still think the Classic Version had what it took to beat him.
Originally posted by WarmongerThat is the beginning and end of McCoy's involvement during the conclusion of Enemy of the State. He lunges at Wolvie and Logan puts him down in two panels.
While your scan makes a decent case for Wolvie vs Beast, it doesn't do anything for this match.Two, we have to take your word for it that Wolvie took Beast down in one move, you only posted one page of the fight, maybe you should at leat post the intro to the fight.
And I still don't see how everyone can dismiss that scan. I mean, we haven't seen Beast in action much since he's taken this form. He gets rocked by Cassandra Nova, fights Danger... and yeah. But here you have a clear cut recent example of how he would fare against somebody like Wolverine. So, isn't it reasonable to compare Wolvie and Cap? Cap is as strong (if not stronger), as fast (if not faster), and possesses as much fighting prowess (if not more)... and yet... we can give Wolvie the benefit of the doubt and not pass the above fight in question to PIS, but it would be preposterous to even compare this to how Cap can and would fare. Not a single person would make such a comparison... In fact, most people dismiss it as not 'applicable.'
It just really astounds me. The guy is held up on a high pedestal by not just fans, but writers also and is pretty much the '2nd coming' within the pages of comic books. I mean, when the Avengers need a plan or need to rely on somebody... they don't look to Beast, or Iron Man or Thor for that matter. They look to Cap to save the day. Ask Hawkeye or anybody else in the Marvel Universe, "Who would you rather have at your back, Beast or Cap?"
Look at HoM. Everybody is downed by the fact that Cap is too old in the new reality to help. You see anybody asking for Hank McCoy? I for one, can't wait to see how that works out, because Layla clearly wakes Cap's mind when told not to by Frost. No spoilers please, I want to see it for myself. Bah humbug! The old soldier is ashamed of you! >😛
Originally posted by OneDumbG0
That is the beginning and end of McCoy's involvement during the conclusion of Enemy of the State. He lunges at Wolvie and Logan puts him down in two panels.
I don't know that from the scan, from all I can see Beast triped and landed on him. 😕. Also it looks like Wolverine is teleporting since when did he start doing that?
And I still don't see how everyone can dismiss that scan. I mean, we haven't seen Beast in action much since he's taken this form. He gets rocked by Cassandra Nova, fights Danger... and yeah. But here you have a clear cut recent example of how he would fare against somebody like Wolverine. So, isn't it reasonable to compare Wolvie and Cap? Cap is as strong (if not stronger), as fast (if not faster), and possesses as much fighting prowess (if not more)... and yet... we can give Wolvie the benefit of the doubt and not pass the above fight in question to PIS, but it would be preposterous to even compare this to how Cap can and would fare. Not a single person would make such a comparison... In fact, most people dismiss it as not 'applicable.'
No its not really reasonable to Compare Wolvie and Cap because they are two different people, also Wolverine seemed to have powers such as teleporting, that he has never displayed before. And like I said I see no "move" it just looks like he is laying on him. Wolverine and Captain America bring two wholey different sets of weapons to a fight.
It just really astounds me. The guy is held up on a high pedestal by not just fans, but writers also and is pretty much the '2nd coming' within the pages of comic books. I mean, when the Avengers need a plan or need to rely on somebody... they don't look to Beast, or Iron Man or Thor for that matter. They look to Cap to save the day. Ask Hawkeye or anybody else in the Marvel Universe, "Who would you rather have at your back, Beast or Cap?"
He is held up on a high pedastal, and if a fight were written between Beast and Cap, you can bet Cap would win. However thats not what we're dealing with here. What the purpose of this thread is, is to debate who would win if they were written by and unbiased opinion, without respect to status at all. Lets put it like this, if Batman and Superman fought, who do you think would win? Belive it or not its not the no brainer you think it would be. There would people on here arguing that Batman can still win, but do you think thats a process of being reasoanble, and taking an appraisal of their abilities, or due to the fact that Batman has aquired such a massive fan base people just think that Batman naturally wins? And yes the disparity between the two is not so great thats why I didn't give Beast 10/10.
Also when it comes to leading a group into battle Captain America is probably one of the finest people you can call on, certainly not Hank McCoy. However when a deadly flesh eating disease, plagues New York, or you need someone to reverse engineer a gentic mutation, what is Captain America going to do? Say "God Bless America"? No he would be almost no where on the list of people you would call but you better belive Beast would be in the top 5.
Look at HoM. Everybody is downed by the fact that Cap is too old in the new reality to help. You see anybody asking for Hank McCoy? I for one, can't wait to see how that works out, because Layla clearly wakes Cap's mind when told not to by Frost. No spoilers please, I want to see it for myself. Bah humbug! The old soldier is ashamed of you! >😛
Who is down, the comic characters or the fans? The characters certainly don't miss him they don't even know him. This is the first I've heard anyone make more than a passing remark about Cap's state.
Originally posted by WarmongerI doubt Wolvie would be thinking, "He's down" if Beast tripped over himself. I'm pretty sure you could interpret that panel as Wolvie partially dodging Beast's lunge and shoulder checking or body checking his chest area and knocking the wind from him. I also see a lil blood splatter, but none of the claws have blood on em and later in the issue, SHIELD agents only verify that Havok has lacerations. Nobody else. So I think its safe to assume, one deft move followed by a clever quip, "Bad Beast! Daddy have to smack!"
I don't know that from the scan, from all I can see Beast triped and landed on him. . Also it looks like Wolverine is teleporting since when did he start doing that?
Originally posted by WarmongerYet people, have been posting what Beast has done to Danger to prove he could do it to Cap and that is different how? >.>
No its not really reasonable to Compare Wolvie and Cap because they are two different people, also Wolverine seemed to have powers such as teleporting, that he has never displayed before. And like I said I see no "move" it just looks like he is laying on him. Wolverine and Captain America bring two wholey different sets of weapons to a fight.
Originally posted by Warmonger😆 I give you this argument! I'm just picturing Cap handing out American flags to Legacy virus victims. LOL!
Also when it comes to leading a group into battle Captain America is probably one of the finest people you can call on, certainly not Hank McCoy. However when a deadly flesh eating disease, plagues New York, or you need someone to reverse engineer a gentic mutation, what is Captain America going to do? Say "God Bless America"? No he would be almost no where on the list of people you would call but you better belive Beast would be in the top 5.
Originally posted by WarmongerWolverine says it himself in reply to Emma Frost's comment about him being useless as an old guy. Logan says, "Too bad. We coulda used him." Then of course, Layla goes ahead and undoes it anyway. Like I said, I can't wait to see how that pans out! NO SPOILERS! I won't be at my comic shop for a while! 😠
Who is down, the comic characters or the fans? The characters certainly don't miss him they don't even know him. This is the first I've heard anyone make more than a passing remark about Cap's state.
Originally posted by OneDumbG0
That is the beginning and end of McCoy's involvement during the conclusion of Enemy of the State. He lunges at Wolvie and Logan puts him down in two panels.And I still don't see how everyone can dismiss that scan. I mean, we haven't seen Beast in action much since he's taken this form. He gets rocked by Cassandra Nova, fights Danger... and yeah. But here you have a clear cut recent example of how he would fare against somebody like Wolverine. So, isn't it reasonable to compare Wolvie and Cap? Cap is as strong (if not stronger), as fast (if not faster), and possesses as much fighting prowess (if not more)... and yet... we can give Wolvie the benefit of the doubt and not pass the above fight in question to PIS, but it would be preposterous to even compare this to how Cap can and would fare. Not a single person would make such a comparison... In fact, most people dismiss it as not 'applicable.'
It just really astounds me. The guy is held up on a high pedestal by not just fans, but writers also and is pretty much the '2nd coming' within the pages of comic books. I mean, when the Avengers need a plan or need to rely on somebody... they don't look to Beast, or Iron Man or Thor for that matter. They look to Cap to save the day. Ask Hawkeye or anybody else in the Marvel Universe, "Who would you rather have at your back, Beast or Cap?"
Look at HoM. Everybody is downed by the fact that Cap is too old in the new reality to help. You see anybody asking for Hank McCoy? I for one, can't wait to see how that works out, because Layla clearly wakes Cap's mind when told not to by Frost. No spoilers please, I want to see it for myself. Bah humbug! The old soldier is ashamed of you! >😛
hey next time u state some thing make sure it correct
superhuman>peakhuman
wolverine is superhuman
captain peak human
wolverine is better in all those abilities u mentioned in some of the he a good amount better
Originally posted by wolverine8888I've come back to beat this dead horse. Been gone awhile because some people spoil things and I hadn't been able to pick up my comics for 3-4 weeks. But I just picked up my fill of comics this past weekend, so I'll be tracking down all of my past arguments.
hey next time u state some thing make sure it correct
superhuman>peakhuman
wolverine is superhuman
captain peak human
wolverine is better in all those abilities u mentioned in some of the he a good amount better
Does Wolverine have superhuman strength or speed? Exactly what class are we talking about here? If there is a big difference between Wolvie's and Cap's strength and speed, exactly how vast is it?
In the end, after you answer these questions, how does this detract from my argument? Are you now saying that because Cap can't run as fast as Wolverine, that this difference is the reason why Wolverine can lay down Beast but Cap can't? I'd just like clarification before I make a rebuttal.
wolverine is peak human to enhanced human in strength...certainly not superhumn though.
When beast got sliced across his abs by Wolverine he mentioned that its a little known fact that he heals twice as fast as a human...not fast enough to make any difference DURING the fight.
And Cap would own the beast...he's simply too good a fighter, too experienced, and too central a character...in a comic book, Cap would crush beast in less than 3 panels.
