Well, on 170, it says nothing of the sort, simply to elminate Kenobi.
What you're referring to is on 215, when Sidious says ''Toy with them. Play to their weaknesses. Demostrate your mastery, as you have on other occasions.''
But that, Fishy, was in reference to Tythe, not their duel on the 'Invisible Hand'.
Hmm, great now I have to read the damn book again and see where I got it from... Isn't there another place you can think of where it was said. Because I remember Janus and I think you too saying the same thing. BTW: Tythe if thats the planet in the end of the book never happened the fight between the three never took place, its only logical to assume that the fight that would happen instead of that one would be under the same circumstances.
There never was supposed to be a fight; it was only to toy with them, to aggravate them. To keep them from where they needed to be. You saw clearly how easily he frustrated Anakin. That was Sidious' objective. To keep them from Coruscant.
And no, lol. Those are the only two places that involve the two. One in 'the Works', and the other aboard the Invisible Hand. trust me on this one. Read them yourself if you want; I gave you the pages.
About the book being the main benafactor on dooku being told to lose I'll agree, but I still belive that Anakin still defeated an enemy, who was trying against him. If was told not to kill Ani, he would've just injured him again,nothing serious, but enough to make Ani lose the fight. But lets be honost the way Lucas portrayed the fight, he made a damn fine job of making Dooku try in the fight vs Anakin.
~My opinion everyone gives Dooku to much credit, I've seen several threads in which it states Dooku better than Sidious, and everyone agrees, which in my opinion, is so false.~
I still will disagree on the training on all the force sides; light, universal, and dark side powers, Vader excells in just about more of them, than Dooku would ever dream. True Lighting is far more impressive, but does impressive mean "better?" I beleive force choke would easily demolish Dooku in a matter of seconds.
You do have me changing my opinion "partially." By that I mean "possibly, and only possibly" does ROTS Vader could "possibly lose to dooku" due to the lack of exp. in force ability.
If the match up was ROTS VADER vs. dooku, dooku would beat him in force, but dooku wouldn't match up to Vader's saber combat.(during ROTS)
But the match is Mech. Vader vs Dooku.
(Dooku wins in saber combat, but comes no where near Mech.vader in most force abilities.)
We are talking about someone who can force choke another person through a tv screen. Vader's far more in tune with the force when he is mech. vader than dooku could ever imagine.
I don't mean to down Dooku but he is no where near Mech.Vader when it comes down to the force. Dooku could never match up to Sidious or/and yoda, lets be honest here he wouldn't stand a chance, it would be a long fight, but in the end Sid or Yoda simply come out the victor.
Mech.Vader vs.Dooku, fairly equal fight; you got master of from 2, best lightsaber duelest in the fight, vs now an aboveaverage saber duelist, mech.vader, who is far more exp in the force. Theres no contest, Vader would win, well I should say in my opinion would win. Becuase theres not enough evidence stating who would win, becuase you can always say the same for the other.
Lets leave it at this, the two are amogst the greatest of all sith(new sith and the ancient) It is really just about who likes who more when it comes down to it.
For anyone else who wishes to continue this topic please take civilized and try not to repeate what either fish or myself have already stated. Thank you.
Originally posted by Aduruth
Wow, I bet you feel so special, technicaly your right about Anakin being Darth Vader, but your mainly wrong.LAST I CHECKED IT WAS THE JEDI ANAKIN NOT THE ROTS VADER WHO KILLED DOOKO, WOW LEARN HOW TO READ!!!!! AND ANOTHER THING I ALREADY SAID DOOKO WOULD BEAT VADER IN SABER COMBATE, GEESH TALK ABOUT A LOW ATTENTION SPAN!!!! AND LASTLY AS I SAID OVER AND OVER,
~~ROTS JEDI ANAKIN VS DOOKO (GUESS WHO WON? ANAKIN!!)
~~~THEN I SAID IMAGINE IF IT WAS ROTS VADER VS DOOKO, EASILY ROTS VADER, IN SABER AND FORCE.
~~~~LASTLY I SAID MECH. VADER VS DOOKO, DOOKO BEATS HIM IN SABER COMBATE, BUT NOT IN FORCE ABILITIES WHICH IS FAR MORE IMPORTANT.
*It's noobs like you which not only mess up a thread but make yourselves look like a "noob."
Everything I have already stated you repeated, everything you "contradict" me on, I already agreed with you!!! You are the biggest noob in "my" book. Now before you start trying to ban me like a "taddle-taylor," just think, you brought this upon yourself to get bashed. Lastly I'd just like to say what you have already said "Go back to your crawlspace, elite noob" And why don't you practice what you preach.
OMG im going to cry.
They are far from the greatest.
And the thing is you say Vader is more powerful with the force, but there is nothing to suggest that. He had 7 years more of training. But this was in a time of peace when Sidious had plenty of other things to worry about. HE would not have trained Anakin as much as Dooku in 13 years time because Dooku had to hurry the hell up and get ready for a war.
A choke won't help against a Jedi, if it did then a weak Dark Sider could kill even the most powerful of masters. Sidious didn't even try to choke Yoda or Mace. Why? Because it wouldn't stand a chance of hell in working. Lightning does. Vader does not control that power. The thigns he threw were smaller then what Dooku threw. Doesn't mean he can't throw anything bigger it just means we don't know so we can't assume that he can.
Now Makashi is also a style used between two lightsaber fighters. The style is heavily superior in a lightsaber fight to almost any other style. Vader also got slower since ROTS, Dooku was still pretty fast so that would give him another advantage. And just one thing I have to remind you on.
Dooku vs Yoda in AOTC. This is three years before ROTS. Where Dooku and Yoda have a duel in the force, its obvious Yoda is more powerful but he can not defeat Dooku with the force alone thats why they fight with a lightsaber. You have to be incredibly powerful with the force to defeat somebody else with the force alone. Seeing as a lightsaber can block the more powerful attacks. Seeing as there is also nothing to suggest choking a Jedi or a Sith would work and Anakin his other offensive powers are primarily throwing things around we can not say he could defeat Dooku with the force. Its almost impossible.
Now we knew Dooku threw huge rocks after he broke it from a mountain. Now thats impressive, we know that Dooku is a lightsaber master in a style that nobody in that time practiced. A style that makes him great against other lightsaber wielders.
So we have no evidence to show that Vader can defeat Dooku with the force, if anything it shows the other way of Dooku being more powerful based on a few small things he does that we have never seen Vader do. Then we know Dooku is more powerful with a lightsaber. How could Vader defeat him?
Well when i said there the greatest I meant in/around the top 20 force users of the sith.
But to answer your question "How can Vader beat Dooku." That question has already been answered, the same way Dooku can beat Vader, Fishy we are just repeating ourselves, lets just drop it, lol. No matter what I say you won't change your way of deciding the victor, the same way I won't change my idea of the victor, the only people who can really answer this is either GL, or his most trusted advisories.
WHat your leaning towards Aduruth is that vader is more powerful than dooku in force skills correct? Well, its already been decided that dooku wins in terms of lightsaber combat, but concerning force use. IMO dooku has the upper edge here, and I mean by a lot. Dooku is put on par with yoda, sids, and mace. Basically the greats during TPM and ROTS. Dooku could maybe fight till a standstill with yoda, maybe not. HE could beat mace, but not very easily. And he would definetly make competition with sids. Although you might not believe it, its true. Sidious was a better leader, and manipulator. He was not a warrior. So if you are implying that vader has a chance against any of these, then well, you are a fanboy. (no offense dude..), but if you believe vader is not up there with them. Then dooku most certainly is better than vader.
Im not compering Vader to any of them, in which I'm stating during the pt TPM-ROTS Dooku would defeate Vader, but Dooku would stand no chance vs. ANH-ROTJ Vader.
Admiral as I stated before, I agree Dooku would defeat pt vader, but not mech. vader(ot)
Now on the part about how you said Dooku would stand up against any of the three(sid, windu, and yoda) I agree, he may not win all of them but he would stand a great chance, as would vader, if it was the ot vader, the pt vader if he were lucky, and i mean by luck he could only kill windu if that, but by the ot he would beat at least 2 out of 3 of the 3 you stated.(sid, yoda, or windu)
Remember you can't compare the ROTS Vader to any Dooku, unless you compare lightsaber combat, but other than that ROTS vader is killed(becuase he is not as exp.)
But u can caompare Ot, slow, yet master of the force vader to slow, master of the force dooku. Dont forget age catches up on dooku, as it did obi wan/ben kenobi. so lightsaber combat will be nothing when ot vader vs dooku comes in to play. its all about the force when these two fight, and i beleive vader has the upper hand. im done with this thread so say watever you wish, becuase your only going to repeat what u just said.
Originally posted by Aduruth
Im not compering Vader to any of them, in which I'm stating during the pt TPM-ROTS Dooku would defeate Vader, but Dooku would stand no chance vs. ANH-ROTJ Vader.Admiral as I stated before, I agree Dooku would defeat pt vader, but not mech. vader(ot)
Now on the part about how you said Dooku would stand up against any of the three(sid, windu, and yoda) I agree, he may not win all of them but he would stand a great chance, as would vader, if it was the ot vader, the pt vader if he were lucky, and i mean by luck he could only kill windu if that, but by the ot he would beat at least 2 out of 3 of the 3 you stated.(sid, yoda, or windu)
Remember you can't compare the ROTS Vader to any Dooku, unless you compare lightsaber combat, but other than that ROTS vader is killed(becuase he is not as exp.)
But u can caompare Ot, slow, yet master of the force vader to slow, master of the force dooku. Dont forget age catches up on dooku, as it did obi wan/ben kenobi. so lightsaber combat will be nothing when ot vader vs dooku comes in to play. its all about the force when these two fight, and i beleive vader has the upper hand. im done with this thread so say watever you wish, becuase your only going to repeat what u just said.
Look, this isn't set in any particular time. It's just ROTS Dooku versus ESB Vader.
Originally posted by Aduruth
Wow, I bet you feel so special, technicaly your right about Anakin being Darth Vader, but your mainly wrong.LAST I CHECKED IT WAS THE JEDI ANAKIN NOT THE ROTS VADER WHO KILLED DOOKO, WOW LEARN HOW TO READ!!!!! AND ANOTHER THING I ALREADY SAID DOOKO WOULD BEAT VADER IN SABER COMBATE, GEESH TALK ABOUT A LOW ATTENTION SPAN!!!! AND LASTLY AS I SAID OVER AND OVER,
~~ROTS JEDI ANAKIN VS DOOKO (GUESS WHO WON? ANAKIN!!)
~~~THEN I SAID IMAGINE IF IT WAS ROTS VADER VS DOOKO, EASILY ROTS VADER, IN SABER AND FORCE.
~~~~LASTLY I SAID MECH. VADER VS DOOKO, DOOKO BEATS HIM IN SABER COMBATE, BUT NOT IN FORCE ABILITIES WHICH IS FAR MORE IMPORTANT.
*It's noobs like you which not only mess up a thread but make yourselves look like a "noob."
Everything I have already stated you repeated, everything you "contradict" me on, I already agreed with you!!! You are the biggest noob in "my" book. Now before you start trying to ban me like a "taddle-taylor," just think, you brought this upon yourself to get bashed. Lastly I'd just like to say what you have already said "Go back to your crawlspace, elite noob" And why don't you practice what you preach.
Obviously you don't understand.
Dooku let Anakin win. Dooku had SEVERAL chances in the fight to dispatch him. A really conclusive time would have been after Dooku says "You have hate, you have fear, but you don't use them.". After he says that, he raises his saber to Anakin, but does not slash down. He waits for Anakin to smash his Lightsaber against Dooku's.
Dooku could have ripped Skywalker apart. Darth Vader may be "cool-looking" and a legendary movie icon/Movie Villain, but he just isn't a better swordsman than Dooku and the metal that captures his entire body sure as hell don't make him no Force Powerhouse.
Vader would get CRUSHED, okay?
"IOMFFGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGG BUT ANAKIN KLILLED DOOKO, SORGO!?!?!?!?!?!??!?!?!"
Well, according to your stupidity, Anakin and Vader are "not the same person."
So that would mean Anakin killing Dooku wouldn't matter, right? Because Anakin and Vader aren't parallel because they are two different people, right?
It doesn't matter anyways. Anakin has no arms or legs as Vader, as powerful as he is. NOTHING can replace arms and legs. It slows him down as a fighter and makes his capabilities come almost to a halt in lightsaber scrappage and Force usage.
Originally posted by Aduruth
Im not compering Vader to any of them, in which I'm stating during the pt TPM-ROTS Dooku would defeate Vader, but Dooku would stand no chance vs. ANH-ROTJ Vader.Admiral as I stated before, I agree Dooku would defeat pt vader, but not mech. vader(ot)
Now on the part about how you said Dooku would stand up against any of the three(sid, windu, and yoda) I agree, he may not win all of them but he would stand a great chance, as would vader, if it was the ot vader, the pt vader if he were lucky, and i mean by luck he could only kill windu if that, but by the ot he would beat at least 2 out of 3 of the 3 you stated.(sid, yoda, or windu)
Remember you can't compare the ROTS Vader to any Dooku, unless you compare lightsaber combat, but other than that ROTS vader is killed(becuase he is not as exp.)
But u can caompare Ot, slow, yet master of the force vader to slow, master of the force dooku. Dont forget age catches up on dooku, as it did obi wan/ben kenobi. so lightsaber combat will be nothing when ot vader vs dooku comes in to play. its all about the force when these two fight, and i beleive vader has the upper hand. im done with this thread so say watever you wish, becuase your only going to repeat what u just said.
Dooku's age? Lightsaber combat will be "Nothing"?
Uh....
😆
Let me tell you something about age....
Kenobi was in his prime and an accomplished Jedi Master when Dooku handed his arse to him.... twice....
Anakin got his shit chopped up on AOTC and would have died on ROTS if Dooku didn't hold back on episode III....Oh, and Anakin is supposedly the Chosen one.....
Old age grants Dooku experience. Dooku fought in several wars, including Rattatak, Geonosis, and i know he did alot of fighting with his Padawan.
In Vader's older age, there is no Jedi around to kill, except Kenobi, and he has an army in which he sends them to do most of his battles. Like Kenobi, Vader is lacking experience in his older age.
Dooku is a master of a Lightsaber Dueling form, Makashi and obviously has a powerful tone in the force, being able to smash things that weigh tons on people and throwing Anakin across the room with Lightning and choking Kenobi while chucking him across the room.
Vader's style consist of his swinging his body a couple of times and maybe twisting his wrist to add a turn to his Lightsaber combat. His force is choking some Admirals and lifting a couple of small objects to hit Luke. These objects maybe weigh 300-500 LBS.
Sure, Vader has a legendary image and a superior army, but when it comes to one on one combat...
Vader...
Would....
Lose.
Originally posted by Fishy
Yoda could easily defeat Vader, unless its OT Yoda cause he doesn't have a lightsaber... He might still pull it off with the force though but thats not the point.And Vader might have gotten better, but so much better that he could suddenly rival Dooku? I doubt it.
What an ass!! That Yoda!!! Just going to some swamp planet while being able to defeat Vader!!!