Originally posted by Rampant ox
Lol. Are you saying Dooku doesnt use his surroundings? I dont really want to spark the argument again but im quite sure Dooku uses the environment as well. Lets see, he ripped the roof down on Yoda, ripped two generators out of the wall and through them at Yoda, tried crushing Kenobi/Skywalker with some big metal thing and eliminated Kenobi in ROTS through use of a balcony.
But can he do that while fighting with his lightsaber?
Originally posted by Quinlan_Vos
Seriously, I mean, if I got my hands cut off, I would be full of agony. I mean, Dooku looks like he got a bee sting when he got his hands cut off. I would fall to the floor and groan, not fall to my knees looking bewildered.
Maybe the pain was so great that he couldn't really do anything about it. I mean, Obi-Wan simply gasped when he got cut, and you don't hear any screams coming from Qui-Gon when he gets stabbed. Maul just twitches when he gets cut in half. Oh and when Anakin got his arm chopped off, he didn't make too big of a fuss.
Originally posted by Quinlan_Vos
Didn't I say Recap somewhere. Anyway, the basic point is Vader wins.
Sorry to be one of those people who likes to argue with every word you say, but how? ermm Like I said earlier, I'm not going to read the whole of a 11 page argument. If you're saying that he uses the environment to his advantage, then I'd agree. If it were a straight lightsaber fight, I'd give it to Dooku
Listen, people, you have to understand something about these "versus" posts. First, the original Star Wars films, although better movies than the prequals, just didn't have the refined level of choreography as the prequeals. So, of course, the prequal characters seem to be better fighters, even though that might not be true of the characters. Second, physically Darth Vader retains Anakin's skills, except that his strength has been enhanced many-fold, even if some of his movement is sacrified. Third, and most important, Anakin had not yet been trained in the Dark Side. Once trained in the Dark Side, which is probably more lethal in terms of its fighting prowess than the light side (witness Palpatine's ability to dispatch three Jedi masters in no time at all), Darth Vader would be a lethal foe to any jedi or Sith lord alike. He does, after all, have midichlorian levels beyond any other Force user (even Yoda, ugh I can't believe I had to reference midichlorians to make my point!). If Anakin the Jedi Knight can defeat Darth Tyranus without any training in the Dark Side, surely Darth Vader, Lord of the Sith, would do away with Darth Maul, Darth Tyranus, and Obi Wan without thinking twice. The force lightening that many assume would do away with his circuitry may well be displaced as easily as a blaster bolt from Han Solo's revolver (as in the dinner scene in ESB). Yoda displaced a dark-side bolt, and I am sure that the Lord of the Sith and the Jedi prophecy could do the same. Vader was only affected by Palpatine's bolt in ROJ because he came into physical contact with the Emperor and took his body upon his person, and thus could not deflect the lightening. The point is that you all forget even Palpatine's comment to Yoda in ROS, that Vader would become even more powerful than Palpatine. There shouldn't be any question but that Darth Vader is the most powerful Sith lord in its long history.
Listen, people, you have to understand something about these "versus" posts. First, the original Star Wars films, although better movies than the prequels, just didn't have the refined level of choreography as the prequels. So, of course, the prequel characters seem to be better fighters, even though that might not be true of the characters. Second, physically Darth Vader retains Anakin's skills, except that his strength has been enhanced manifold, even if some of his movement is sacrified. Third, and most important, Anakin had not yet been trained in the Dark Side. Once trained in the Dark Side, which is probably more lethal in terms of its fighting prowess than the light side (witness Palpatine's ability to dispatch three Jedi masters in no time at all), Darth Vader would be a lethal foe to any jedi or Sith lord alike. He does, after all, have midichlorian levels beyond any other Force user (even Yoda, ugh I can't believe I had to reference midichlorians to make my point!). If Anakin the Jedi Knight can defeat Darth Tyranus without any training in the Dark Side, surely Darth Vader, Lord of the Sith, would do away with Darth Maul, Darth Tyranus, and Obi Wan without thinking twice. The force lightening that many assume would do away with his circuitry may well be displaced as easily as a blaster bolt from Han Solo's revolver (as in the dinner scene in ESB). Yoda displaced a dark-side bolt, and I am sure that the Lord of the Sith and the Jedi prophecy could do the same. Vader was only affected by Palpatine's bolt in ROJ because he came into physical contact with the Emperor and took his body upon his person, and thus could not deflect the lightening. The point is that you all forget even Palpatine's comment to Yoda in ROS, that Vader would become even more powerful than Palpatine. There shouldn't be any question but that Darth Vader is the most powerful Sith lord in its long history.
Thank you, Darth Sakul for not only double posting the same exact thing, but also necromancing a thread to write the same exact thing.
As rebutted in the other thread:
Originally posted by AdventExcept for the fact that the Revenge of the Sith Visual Dictionary states exactly that Darth Vader can neither conjur nor repel Force lightning as it requires living hands to do so. Darth Vader has artificial arms, ergo he cannot stop Force lightning with merely his hands a la ESB.
So, because Yoda can, Vader can as well? Considering Yoda is more proficient in the Force than Vader, I'd surmise not. At least taking it from the premise you are (that a post-suit Vader can because Yoda can). Though, I would concede that if Vader hadn't been strewn across the banks of Mustafar, he'd [obviously] be able to do the same with his left arm.
Too bad for our beloved Vader, that he indeed, has artificial hands and thusly is unable to repel Force lightning in that manner. Perhaps, though, he could with his lightsaber as shown by Kenobi in AOTC, but to assume he can do it with his hands is not only an unsupported assumption, it's blatantly overwritten by the fact he is stated not to be able to.
This is irrelevant to the fact that without a lightsaber he has no chance of blocking Force lightning.
Now, let's take that quote:
"Darth Vader will become more powerful than either of us!" (Revenge of the Sith movie)
Anyone who's passed third grade English class would know that "will become" is future tense. What happened, however, was that he lost that potential after the duel on Mustafar. If you will recall the scene where Darth Vader is left severely burned and missing about three limbs (aside from his already missing arm). After that specific point in time, Vader lost the potential to become more powerful than Yoda and Sidious, hell - the potential to become the most powerful ever.
So, as you can clearly see, Palpatine's comment is tantamount to jack shit other than his potential, which as stated, was lost.
This is trumped by the fact quite a few Sith Lords prior to Vader's time would plainly best him, and are more powerful than Vader (such as Exar Kun, Darth Bane, Darth Revan) and Palpatine, even during ROTS, is capable of taking out Vader. Jacen Solo will undoubtedly be able to take Vader, as well.
This is also toppled by the fact that we already know Sidious > Vader, not only by pure logic, feat wars into context, and etc., but by Lucas' own word:
"He tries it with anybody he thinks might be more powerful, which is what the Emperor was looking for in the first place: somebody who would be more powerful than he was and could help him rule the universe. But Obi-Wan screwed that up by cutting off his arms and legs and burning him up. [b]From then on, he wasn't as strong as the Emperor-- he was like Darth Maul or Count Dooku. He wasn't what he was supposed to become. But the son could become that."
-- George Lucas, Rolling Stones, June 2, 2005.
And to make it simple: Lucas' word is [b]law, ergo Vader is definitely not the most powerful, and not the second most powerful either, nor third.
Your argument is flawed on many points.
Originally posted by Darth Sakulone word
Listen, people, you have to understand something about these "versus" posts. First, the original Star Wars films, although better movies than the prequals, just didn't have the refined level of choreography as the prequeals. So, of course, the prequal characters seem to be better fighters, even though that might not be true of the characters. Second, physically Darth Vader retains Anakin's skills, except that his strength has been enhanced many-fold, even if some of his movement is sacrified. Third, and most important, Anakin had not yet been trained in the Dark Side. Once trained in the Dark Side, which is probably more lethal in terms of its fighting prowess than the light side (witness Palpatine's ability to dispatch three Jedi masters in no time at all), Darth Vader would be a lethal foe to any jedi or Sith lord alike. He does, after all, have midichlorian levels beyond any other Force user (even Yoda, ugh I can't believe I had to reference midichlorians to make my point!). If Anakin the Jedi Knight can defeat Darth Tyranus without any training in the Dark Side, surely Darth Vader, Lord of the Sith, would do away with Darth Maul, Darth Tyranus, and Obi Wan without thinking twice. The force lightening that many assume would do away with his circuitry may well be displaced as easily as a blaster bolt from Han Solo's revolver (as in the dinner scene in ESB). Yoda displaced a dark-side bolt, and I am sure that the Lord of the Sith and the Jedi prophecy could do the same. Vader was only affected by Palpatine's bolt in ROJ because he came into physical contact with the Emperor and took his body upon his person, and thus could not deflect the lightening. The point is that you all forget even Palpatine's comment to Yoda in ROS, that Vader would become even more powerful than Palpatine. There shouldn't be any question but that Darth Vader is the most powerful Sith lord in its long history.
Overcompensation
well thank you for your Vader praising comment....twice 😛 , j/k, but Vader only would have been more powerful if he had not sustained the injuries at the hands of OB1. I personally don't think it makes sense, being that that gay ass midichlorian crap is in fact based on a ratio, rather than total amount, otherwise, anyone bigger than yoda would have more midichlorians, so saying he lost them due to limbs doesn't matter, he still has the same amount per unit of his remaining body which would continue to give him his level of force sensitivity...but, thanks to GL, Vader/Anakin never reached his full potential.
Regardless, Vader would take Dooku out...he's too good. not to discredit Dooku though.
Originally posted by Darth SubjektFacts the anti-fanboy solution😏
well thank you for your Vader praising comment....twice 😛 , j/k, but Vader only would have been more powerful if he had not sustained the injuries at the hands of OB1. I personally don't think it makes sense, being that that gay ass midichlorian crap is in fact based on a ratio, rather than total amount, otherwise, anyone bigger than yoda would have more midichlorians, so saying he lost them due to limbs doesn't matter, he still has the same amount per unit of his remaining body which would continue to give him his level of force sensitivity...but, thanks to GL, Vader/Anakin never reached his full potential.Regardless, Vader would take Dooku out...he's too good. not to discredit Dooku though.