Originally posted by Illustrious
WTF? Onslaught > Apocalypse. If Ragnos beats Onslaught, he takes Apoc. The question is if he does or does not.
No arguments there.
Originally posted by Illustrious
If you can crush a star with 50 or 60 tons, I'd be amazed. The effort will require a ridiculous (highlight it, emphasize, italic, bold it, ridiculous) amount of force. And Onslaught isn't the most powerful being in the Marvel Universe, and really isn't that close.
It's not crushing a star per say, not using sheer power. It is a technique; much like, say, breaking a board, striking a nerve. I have 27 year-old cousin who benches 400 lbs. My Sensei benches 160 lbs. Now, in my particular dojang, there are monthly demostrations. April's demonstartion had him breaking a stack of ten wood blocks, each 1 3/4 inches thick. He broke them down the middle in one blow, a perfect downward chop. Now, my cousin couldn't hope to do that. So, it's not sheer power, but the technique itself. Same with the nerve technique; my cousin could likely chop someone's neck and lnock them out cold. My Sensei could tap them with a scissor-fingered strike to the neck and put them into permanent paralysis.
Originally posted by Illustrious
This can't be the case, because it was stated explicitly that Ragnos was the dark lord of the Sith, the most powerful of the most powerful. Therefore he was clearly stronger than Naga Sadow. We know this much as canonically accepted.
I'm not arguing this.
Originally posted by Illustrious
There are quite a few beings stronger than Onslaught in both the MU and the DCU. I'd have to agree, Onslaught can beat Luke, even with all of Luke's ability to manipulate the force. We don't know enough about Ragnos for the judgment.
Well, yes, when you consider the celestials featured in the MU. But outside of the Asgardians, the Celestials, etc., I doubt there are many. In fact, I could probably count the groups (Asgardians, etc.) and individuals (beats me) on my fingers.
Now, the DCU is a completely different story. . .
Oh, and in my last post, I meant 'Onslaught', not 'Ragnos'.
No, I didn't say Onslaught wasn't one of the most powerful earthbound Marvel characters, I'm just saying he's not as powerful as some individuals make him out to be. Would he beat an enemy that has so much power and command of the force (something completely foreign in the MU)? I can't say. But I will say that one side will either be greatly overestimated, or the other greatly underestimated. Either way, the comparison isn't very valid.
It's not crushing a star per say, not using sheer power. It is a technique; much like, say, breaking a board, striking a nerve. I have 27 year-old cousin who benches 400 lbs. My Sensei benches 160 lbs. Now, in my particular dojang, there are monthly demostrations. April's demonstartion had him breaking a stack of ten wood blocks, each 1 3/4 inches thick. He broke them down the middle in one blow, a perfect downward chop. Now, my cousin couldn't hope to do that. So, it's not sheer power, but the technique itself. Same with the nerve technique; my cousin could likely chop someone's neck and lnock them out cold. My Sensei could tap them with a scissor-fingered strike to the neck and put them into permanent paralysis.
The issue here is that the blocks don't break on their own. So while the technique focuses the force, it still relies on the force to break them. Your cousin may be physically stronger, but he can't focus his energy to the point where it doesn't dissipate, therefore not breaking 10 blocks.
That's the thing, even the most refined and focused of forces would require WELL OVER 50 or 60 tons to crush a star.
Originally posted by Darth_Glentract
I guess you're right. Too much arrogance on the Onslaught supporters part. lol
Arrogance? No. It is arrogance when you have no proof about a Sith Lord - and assume he can take on the whole world with his left hand and own everyone. Ragnos may be beyond most Sith Lords in the Star Wars universe. But this is Marvel. Here, you have people beyond Ragnos.
There's not enough about Ragnos to be determined. But NJO Luke can't take Onslaught, for damn certain. Onslaught possesses abilities that could simply KILL Ragnos or Luke before each of them can summon a star or a black hole.
We don't know.
It's not arrogance. It's fact.
Originally posted by Darth Somebody
Onslaught possesses abilities that could simply KILL Ragnos or Luke before each of them can summon a star or a black hole.
The arrogance thing was a joke, get over it.
What exactly is this technique that can kill Luke or Ragnos before they can do anything. If I remember correctly(and I do, I just looked at the comic a minute ago to make sure) all Naga had to do was wave his hands and the star was ripped apart. How is Ragnos and Luke going to be killed in about a five second period.
Onslaught -
-Can produce mind-numbing bursts
-Can cause permenant amnesia
-Can manipulate planetary magnetic fields
-Can manipulate all types of metals
-Can produce electro-magnetic bursts
-Can rip iron from blood
-Can takeover an opponent's mind
-Can absorb vast amounts of energy
Yeah. And you say Ragnos or Luke can OWN this?
Originally posted by Darth_Glentract
considering even Onslaught's supporters article about him says that with his powers he can move 100 tonnes. Compare that to Ancient Sith who were able to travel between planets on ships they propelled with their force powers. That take a hell of a lot more than 100 tones of kinetic energy.
Class 100 strength means that the individual can lift 100 tons, it doesn't mean that that is the limit of their strength. Onslaught has exhibited lifting abilities of far greater than just 100 tons.
How much is vast amounts of energy?
How can you show that Jedi can't defend against this attack. They use it just as often as he does.
Electro-magnetic burst aren't too impressive.
Permanent amnesia or something similar to it has been done by many Jedi countless times.
So he can rip iron from someone's blood? I remember Magneto doing this in the X-2(it was X-2 or was it X-1). I also remember that the guy was injected with iron before hand. If this was just so he could get enough from one person, then please tell me. Unlike what it may look like, I am inrested in Marvel characters.
Can manipulate all types of metal. Well, your own evidence says he can manipulate up to 100 tonnes of metal at a time. The ability to propel oneself through space requires much more than 100 tonnes of kinetic energy as does controlling black-holes and destroying stars.
Mind-numbing blast. See above, the Jedi are experts on the mind. I find it highly likly they can block against this.
Here's the big one. Onslaught can control the Earths magnetice field. It's extremly difficult, but now nearly as hard as you may think. Let me run some math on the energy required.
The Earths magnetic field at a 5- degree latitude is approx. 50 microtesla.
In a sunspot it is about 10 Tesla. That is, if my math is right; you may want to double-check this, 5,000,000 times more powerful. That doesn't make controlling Earth's magnetic field a very good argument.
For the electro-magnetic energy release argument, this puts that also down the drain as Tesla is a unit of magnetic-enegy.
P.S. On the above, I'm no expert, so I would think it be good if someone double-check my findings. Thanks.
Originally posted by Darth Faunus
Has it been mentioned that Magneto, not Onslaught, Magneto, lifted an oil tanker under his own power?
I was thinking about that, an I think that in that big post that was said on Onslaught a while back it said that was a 30,000 pound tanker. If it isn't in there, I have somewhere else I saw that. Unless I am thinking of something completly different.
Originally posted by Illustrious
Class 100 strength means that the individual can lift 100 tons, it doesn't mean that that is the limit of their strength. Onslaught has exhibited lifting abilities of far greater than just 100 tons.
"Using his powers to augment his strength, he could lift up to 100 tons."
That is right from http://www.marveldirectory.com. Up to 100 tons.