The Living Tribunal vs Lucifer Morningstar

Originally posted by hoorayforpeepee
basically, i woke up on the wrong side of a vomit splattered, smoke filled, passed-out friends room this morning. normally i find you hilarious, whirly, but for some reason this thread really chapped my ass.

I see, well its a kind of excuse I suppose........... 🙂

I guess the reason is you like Phoenix, thats ok mate 🙂

I used to like Phoenix, when Marvel was written well

Originally posted by Whirlysplatt
no I could play the herd game if I wanted, but it proves nothing beyond you need others help 🙂

To do what mate? I debate, lay down the facts and people pick sides. Im just happy with the people who have been objective and opened their minds to the phoenix concept 🙂 😛

meh, like i said, i think phoenix is actually pretty boring. not even in my top 50 characters. it's just i think phoenix was intended to be top tier in power.

Originally posted by hoorayforpeepee
meh, like i said, i think phoenix is actually pretty boring. not even in my top 50 characters. it's just i think phoenix was intended to be top tier in power.

but not LT top tier, but somehow GS got a LT v Lucifer thread onto Phoenix respect the filibustering 😂

Originally posted by hoorayforpeepee
meh, like i said, i think phoenix is actually pretty boring. not even in my top 50 characters. it's just i think phoenix was intended to be top tier in power.

There you go Whirly. Fine example of objectivity. Not the biggest fan of the concept however what he's picked up from debates and comic books he uses to decide that phoenix should be at the upper reaches of the hierarchy as opposed to personal feelings on the concept and its execution. 🙂

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
There you go Whirly. Fine example of objectivity. Not the biggest fan of the concept however what he's picked up from debates and comic books he uses to decide that phoenix should be at the upper reaches of the hierarchy as opposed to personal feelings on the concept and its execution. 🙂

Indeed then you can accept given all the conflicting evidence not least from you 🙂

Many myself included whilst agreeing Phoenix is a cosmic do not see it as much more than a tool 🙂

being a tool (he he, he he) doesn't necessarily have an impact on your power level.

for instance, if i had the choice to have the power of a tesla coil or mister tesla himself, which do you think i'd pick? the tesla coil is but his creation, his tool, and yet it would still fry the shit out of him.

Originally posted by hoorayforpeepee
being a tool (he he, he he) doesn't necessarily have an impact on your power level.

toolishness affects autonomy 🙂 Which in turn affects power

Originally posted by Whirlysplatt
but not LT top tier, but somehow GS got a LT v Lucifer thread onto Phoenix respect the filibustering 😂

I dont seem to recall being the one to bring phoenix into this debate. Lets investigate. Hmmmmmm:

Originally posted by Whirlysplatt
Indeed a universe created external to God, hmmmmm

External to god 🙂

Keep the faith, So much for the white Crown Phoenix is a tool 🙂 Phoenix works within Gods multiverse 🙂

Lucifer is not 🙂 Lucifer went outside it

Point made, again🙂 By GS for me

Stay Whirly 🤘

Hooray saw your game and called you out for it. You're not as subtle as you'd like to believe 😮

Xmen Forever shows that the Phoenix Power is enough to bring LT to his knees as depicted on various occassions throughout the series. New Xmen went on to confirm Chris Claremonts suggestions from the 80's that the Phoenix is linked to the Crown. Ok? 😱 😂

i disagree. autonomy affects initiative.

Originally posted by hoorayforpeepee
i disagree. autonomy affects initiative.

Autonomy means you no longer need initiative as you make the rules 🙂

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
I dont seem to recall being the one to bring phoenix into this debate. Lets investigate. Hmmmmmm:

Hooray saw your game and called you out for it. You're not as subtle as you'd like to believe 😮

Xmen Forever shows that the Phoenix Power is enough to bring LT to his knees as depicted on various occassions throughout the series. New Xmen went on to confirm Chris Claremonts suggestions from the 80's that the Phoenix is linked to the Crown. Ok? 😱 😂

What game you mentioned Phoenix first 🙂

which, still, has no intrinsic effect on power

Originally posted by hoorayforpeepee
which, still, has no intrinsic effect on power

I'll ask you a the same thing I ask GS peepee 🙂 Who has Phoenix beaten above herald level, what feet has Phoenix done which is beyond creating and repairing a universe, 2 things Solar has definately done.

you know very well that's all, though weakling rachel summers did put galactus on his ass.

how about i ask you something? who has ever beaten phoenix (excluding retcon period)?

just because phoenix hasn't gotten in to many fights doesn't mean it can't/doesn't have >than eternity power.

Originally posted by hoorayforpeepee
you know very well that's all, though weakling rachel summers did put galactus on his ass.

how about i ask you something? who has ever beaten phoenix (excluding retcon period)?

just because phoenix hasn't gotten in to many fights doesn't mean it can't/doesn't have >than eternity power.

I agree it doesn't

but you have to concede it doesn't mean it does the rest from GS is pure supposition, as is mine, and that is the point GS does not concede.

Apples and Oranges

Galactus got straight back up by the way 🙂

Originally posted by Whirlysplatt
I'll ask you a the same thing I ask GS peepee 🙂 Who has Phoenix beaten above herald level, what feet has Phoenix done which is beyond creating and repairing a universe, 2 things Solar has definately done.

Who has the L.T. ever beaten ? 🙂

well he has beaten THanos with IG.

Originally posted by Whirlysplatt
I agree it doesn't

but you have to concede it doesn't mean it does the rest from GS is pure supposition, as is mine, and that is the point GS does not concede.

Apples and Oranges

Galactus got straight back up by the way 🙂

In terms of a fight the highest ranking person Phoenix has been shown beating is Galactus. However her feats both stated and shown in the comics mark her out to be a far higher being and none of it i ssupposition. Xmen Adventures 12 (which was made canon apparrently as its events were featured in Galactus' F4 Handbook 2005 bio) showed Phoenix was responsible for the creation of Galactus, Xmen Forever explicitly states and shows that Phoenix is the force responsible for the creation of the abstracts and it is the force that ends creation in the natural scheme of things. It also explicitly states that the abstracts and Galactus are merely the evolved humanity of previous universes ended by Phoenix and that our universes abstracts will in turn be surpassed and replaced as humanity evolves. The comic states that Phoenix is the only constant throughout creation and it shows that by tapping into the full power of the phoenix you will control creation and be supreme over all including LT . That is shown in the comic and that is where the Phoenix retcon of 86 was abolished. Thats what im trying to get into your head mate. Its actually shown and stated. Theres no assumption in all of what ive said. Just cold, hard comic book fact. 😱

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
In terms of a fight Phoenix the highest ranking person Phoenix has been shown beating is Galactus. However her feats both stated and shown in the comics mark her out to be a far higher being and none of it i ssupposition. Xmen Adventures 12 (which was made canon apparrently as its events were featured in Galactus' F4 Handbook 2005 bio) showed Phoenix was responsible for the creation of Galactus, Xmen Forever explicitly states and shows that Phoenix is the force responsible for the creation of the abstracts and it is the force that ends creation in the natural scheme of things. It also explicitly states that the abstracts and Galactus are merely the evolved humanity of previous universes ended by Phoenix and that our universes abstracts will in turn be surpassed and replaced as humanity evolves. The comic states that Phoenix is the only constant throughout creation and it shows that by tapping into the full power of the phoenix you will control creation and be supreme over all including LT . That is shown in the comic and that is where the Phoenix retcon of 86 was abolished. Thats what im trying to get into your head mate. Its actually shown and stated. Theres no assumption in all of what ive said. Just cold, hard comic book fact. 😱

'Xmen Adventures 12 (which was made canon apparrently as its events were featured in Galactus' F4 Handbook 2005 bio) showed Phoenix was responsible for the creation of Galactus,'

How ?

'Xmen Forever explicitly states and shows that Phoenix is the force responsible for the creation of the abstracts and it is the force that ends creation in the natural scheme of things. It also explicitly states that the abstracts and Galactus are merely the evolved humanity of previous universes ended by Phoenix and that our universes abstracts will in turn be surpassed and replaced as humanity evolves. The comic states that Phoenix is the only constant throughout creation and it shows that by tapping into the full power of the phoenix you will control creation and be supreme over all including LT .'

How .... Im really interested ? please ? 🙂

"That is shown in the comic and that is where the Phoenix retcon of 86 was abolished."

What was this ? 🙂