Originally posted by finti
so how do animals have morals
out of selfishness exactly like humans.
Originally posted by clickclick
As to inanimate objects and so on, please justify your statement in some way.
Well its not that I could justify it in your belive system I could state though what I belive: I wouldn'T say I am in a moral way superior to a stone, of course my species is more powerful and all but to destroy a stone is in my opinion exactly the same as to kill a human, since there is no real purpose in life anyway, same with animals. Now of course I can see that you distinct between those two first of all because you are a christian and you belive in a hierachy god created us. And I guess secondly you probably agree with Schopenhauers ethics, so you accept animals that can feel pain as superior than inanimate objects, and humans that also can think (I wouldn'T say animals don't, or at the least we don't) as even superior to them, I can understand that I just don'T agree, no problem there.
Originally posted by clickclick
A parent to child is the best comparison because they created the child and the child has a concsiousness. God is not a human but none the less people are his children, his creation. Yes of course his omniscents puts him incaculably higher.
No its not, a better comparison is a scientist to a robort that he created that can feel. Just thqat god is far more superior to us than we would be to such a robot.
Originally posted by clickclick
Its not like I could answer that question but at the same time does it matter?
Yes it does.
Originally posted by Jury
The fact remains that the sun is distinct to sunlight. Meaning these two things are different and not one.Same also to the Father. He is not the Son. The Father and the Son are two different persons. The Father is the only true God. Meaning God and Jesus are two different persons...not one.
🙂
No it doesn't. When we talk about the Sun possessing sunlight, unless we state otherwise then we are saying that it's part of the Sun. Sunlight is part of the Sun. My hands and feet are distinct and not one, but they're all part of me.
Great theology. You cannot just try and explain stuff like you would to a child, without any backing, and expect it to stand up.
Originally posted by Bardock42
Ok first of all. Humans are not superior to animal by any means, I can understsand why you think you are more important than inanimate things, even thoughb this again is not true. Now I guess my comparision was much better than yours since a parent children relationship between two parts of a species and god is surely not the same species we are. And don'T you think his omniscents puts him so much higher than us? Oh and if there are noi aliens why exactly did god create such a big universe? Wouldn't our solar system have been absilutely suffivcent?
Originally posted by Bardock42
out of selfishness exactly like humans.Well its not that I could justify it in your belive system I could state though what I belive: I wouldn'T say I am in a moral way superior to a stone, of course my species is more powerful and all but to destroy a stone is in my opinion exactly the same as to kill a human, since there is no real purpose in life anyway, same with animals. Now of course I can see that you distinct between those two first of all because you are a christian and you belive in a hierachy god created us. And I guess secondly you probably agree with Schopenhauers ethics, so you accept animals that can feel pain as superior than inanimate objects, and humans that also can think (I wouldn'T say animals don't, or at the least we don't) as even superior to them, I can understand that I just don'T agree, no problem there.
No its not, a better comparison is a scientist to a robort that he created that can feel. Just thqat god is far more superior to us than we would be to such a robot.
Yes it does.
We have more emotions. We have angst, jelousy, anger, love, mental strength, and more
There is if God exists. He is a purpose. You are trying to get him/her around to your point of view from your point of view. Plus you cannot kill a stone. It just turns into smaller pieces (whilst we can lose something without losing a single part). Or Gamma radiation if you hit it with antimatter.
Most animals cannot think. A two year old human has a more advanced brain than a ten year old monkey (unless it's a genius one, where it might beat babies up to the age of four) If you take this, and add the definition "of a higher nature or kind" you will find that humans are of a higher nature and kind. We can make an extelligence (a stored intelligence outside our minds), that lets us beat any animal, which make us a higher nature, and a superior brain which lets us be of a better kind.
Yes, but we have a soul. Imagine a Robot that could apprechiate how robotics was a good career path, despite the pitfuls lack of girls/boys who find it sexy, the mere 30,000 a year pay, and the horrible cofee that the cafe serves. The inventor might well grow to like such a being.
Not really. No serious scientist would consider aliens existing, and neither should you. Plus any that came to earth wouldn't be able to cope with the diseases or virus's (as H.G. Wells said)
Originally posted by Bardock42 Well its not that I could justify it in your belive system I could state though what I belive: I wouldn'T say I am in a moral way superior to a stone, of course my species is more powerful and all but to destroy a stone is in my opinion exactly the same as to kill a human, since there is no real purpose in life anyway, same with animals. Now of course I can see that you distinct between those two first of all because you are a christian and you belive in a hierachy god created us. And I guess secondly you probably agree with Schopenhauers ethics, so you accept animals that can feel pain as superior than inanimate objects, and humans that also can think (I wouldn'T say animals don't, or at the least we don't) as even superior to them, I can understand that I just don'T agree, no problem there.I totally disagree. That means you think that either anyone who destroys a stone should be charged with murder, or that people who murder human beings should not be punished at all? You gotta be kidding me. You can't hold humans and inanimate objects at the same level, and you can't hold humans and animals at the same level.
Yes it does.
In what way does it matter?
No its not, a better comparison is a scientist to a robort that he created that can feel. Just thqat god is far more superior to us than we would be to such a robot.
A robot still lacks life, let alone a soul/spirit. According to the bible people were made in god's image, which refers to the soul aspect.
Christianity is ALL about Jesus Christ! Having faith in Him is the only way to salvation... not by good deeds. My fellow brother... you have obviously over looked the deity of our Lord Jesus Christ. God is the one grieved by sin. And only God can repair the damaged relationship that has seperated us from Him. If Jesus wasn't God, then His sacrifice would be illegitimate and meaningless. Jesus Christ was not an angelic lackey, a junior God, or a human being like you and I. Jesus was God in the flesh. And the Bible contains so much support of this fact. READ THE BIBLE!
"Jesus answered,... I and My Father are one.' Then the Jews took up stones again to stone Him. "Jesus answered them, 'Many good works I have shown you from My Father. For which of those works do you stone Me?' The Jews answered Him, saying, 'For a good work we do not stone You, but for blasphemy, and because You, being a Man, make yourself God.'" -John 10:25-33
"Philip said to Him, 'Lord show us the Father, and it is sufficient for us.' Jesus said to him, 'Have I been with you so long, and yet you have not known Me, Philip? He who has seen Me has seen the Father; so how can you say, "Show us the Father"?'" -John 14:8,9
"He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation. For by Him all things were created that are in heaven and that are on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or principalities or powers. All things were created through Him and for Him. And He is before all things, and in Him all things consist." Colossians 1:15-17
"When Jesus saw their faith, He said to the paralytic, 'Son, your sins are forgiven you.' But some of the scribes were sitting there and reasoning in their hearts, 'Why does this Man speak blasphemies like this? Who can forgive sins but God alone?'" Mark 2:5-7
"Of whom (the Jewish people) are the fathers and from whom, acording to the flesh, Christ came, who is over all, the eternally blessed God. Amen." Romans 9:5
"And we know that the Son of God has come and has given understanding, that we may know him who is true; and we are in Him who is true, in His Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God and eternal life." 1 John 5:20 John who is an eyewitness of Jesus Christ, makes no hesitation in calling him God!
As stated in Genesis, we were created in God's likeness. That wasn't just a physical image the scripture was referring to. We posses a mind, body and soul, just like God. The Father (the mind), the body (Jesus Christ) and the soul (the holy Spirit)! All these attributes make up the godhead body-God. Think about that.
It's imperative that you study. If you have a hard time reading the Bible, check out "The Case for Christ" by Lee Strobel or "Evidence that Demands a Verdict" by Josh McDowell, or read books by Jack Van Impe. They call him the walking Bible. He knows more that 14,000 scriptures by memory!
In a day when MANY have been decieved about the true nature of Jesus Christ, we ought to remember that heaven is not one iota confused about His identity. Understood in the light of Exodus 15 and the song of Moses, this verse makes plain that God whom Moses and the children of Israel addressed in the face of their great earthly victory was none other than Jesus Christ. For confirmation of this fact we quote selected portions of the great pslam.
Then Moses and the Iraelites sang this song to the Lord: "I will sing to the LORD, for he is highly exalted. The horse and its rider he has hurled into the sea. The LORD is my strength and my song; he has become my salvation. He is my God, and I will praise him, my father's God, and I will exalt him. The LORD is a warrior; the LORD is his name.... You will bring them in and plant them on the mountain of your inheritance-the place, O LORD, you made for your dwelling, the sanctuary, O LORD, your hands established. The LORD will reign for ever and ever." Exodus 15:1-3, 17-18
The fact that these saints combine this song and the song of the Lamb can only be explained on the basis that Jesus Christ is Almighty God. The song of Moses and the Lamb in Revelation 15:3-4 clearly identifies Jesus Christ with the attributes of God Himself. No person or created being has ever been addressed like this. Note the characteristics attributed to Him:
1. Creation: "Great and marvelous are your deeds, Lord God Almighty."
2. Justice: "Just and true are your ways."
3. Object of worship: "King of the ages. Who will not fear you, O Lord, and bring glory to your name?"
4. Holiness: "For you alone are holy."
5. Omnipotence and eternity: "All nations will come and worship before you, for your righteous acts have been revealed."
The most pitiful people in the world are the religionists who, representing modernistic liberlism or the cults and "isms," do not understand who Jesus Christ is. The book of Revelation certainly clarifies His identity, and if for no other reason, it is worthy of study because it does what its introduction predicted. Revelation 1:1 announces "the revelation of Jesus Christ." It is the only book in the world that truly presents Jesus Christ as He reallt is today.
The Old Testament paints a portrait of God by using such titles and descriptions as Alpha and Omega, Lord, Savior, King, Judge, Light, rock, Redeemer, Shepard, Creator, giver of life, forgiver of sin, and speaker with divine authority. It's fascinating to note, that in the New Testament, each and every one is applied to Jesus Christ!
According to the Bible, there is only ONE God! It is a grave sin to worship anything other than God, and God alone. GOD DOES NOT SHARE POWER! Further more, God is the one grieved by man's sin. Only He has the authority to forgive and repair the damaged relationship with mankind. Knowing all this as fact, then Jesus Christ must be God in the flesh. Refer to the many scriptures that point to Jesus's deity in my previous message above.
If I am wrong? Why do we worship Jesus Christ as our Lord and Savior? It's called herecy, and God has zero tolerance for worshiping other beings or creations before Him like we do Jesus. If Jesus wasn't God in the flesh, then we are all doomed. For we are all yet in our sins!
Jesus is the visible image, of the invisible God.
"In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.... and the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we beheld His glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father, full of grace and truth." John 1:1,14
Please present questions is an intelligent manner. I'm tring to help others understand the deity of Jesus.
Originally posted by Jury
The fact remains that the sun is distinct to sunlight. Meaning these two things are different and not one.
Same also to the Father. He is not the Son. The Father and the Son are two different persons. The Father is the only true God. Meaning God and Jesus are two different persons...not one.
Originally posted by Ytaker
No it doesn't. When we talk about the Sun possessing sunlight, unless we state otherwise then we are saying that it's part of the Sun. Sunlight is part of the Sun. My hands and feet are distinct and not one, but they're all part of me.Great theology. You cannot just try and explain stuff like you would to a child, without any backing, and expect it to stand up.
No, it doesn't. (it doesn't what?) Are you saying that the Sun and Sunlight are not distinct to each other? Are these things not different from each other? 🙄
Try to be consistent, at least, for once. 🙂
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Okay. What I am saying is this:
The SUN is distinct to its SUNLIGHT. The word "sunlight" itself demonstrate its distinction to the "sun". Meaning, they, the Sun and the Sunlight, are two different things. The reason why it is termed as "sunlight" because it is not the "sun".
(1)SUNLIGHT
Entry: day
Part of Speech: noun
Definition: light
Synonyms: astronomical day, bright, dawn-to-dark, daylight, daytime, diurnal course, early bright, light, nautical day, sidereal day, sunlight, sunrise-to-sunset, sunshine, twenty-four hours, working day
Antonyms: dark, evening, night, nighttime(2)SUNLIGHT
Entry: daylight
Part of Speech: noun
Definition: light
Synonyms: aurora, dawn, day, daybreak, daytime, light, sunlight, sunrise, sunshine
Antonyms: dark, night, nighttime, sundown, sunset, twilight
In short, "sunlight" is the light of the sun. Meaning, not the sun itself.
Sunlight is part of the Sun.
My hands and feet are distinct and not one, but they're all part of me.Who says they're not? 🙄 That is beside the point.
Just like what you are trying to compare with God. If the Father is the Sun and Jesus Christ is the Sunlight, then if the Sun is distinct to the Sunlight, Father and Jesus Christ are also distinct to each other. Which you once also agreed, if you remember. 🙂 In the Bible, Jesus Christ Himself introduced His Father as the only true God. Since the Father is distinct to the Son, Jesus Christ, therefore God and Jesus are not the same and one person. --- This is my very answer for the question posted in this thread. 🙂 At least, as far as the Bible is concerned.
John 10:30 "I and My Father are one"
"Jesus answered,... I and My Father are one.' Then the Jews took up stones again to stone Him. "Jesus answered them, 'Many good works I have shown you from My Father. For which of those works do you stone Me?' The Jews answered Him, saying, 'For a good work we do not stone You, but for blasphemy, and because You, being a Man, make yourself God.'" -John 10:25-33
Anyway, I can give the complete verses later.
As far as the verses were concerned, note that Christ did not say, “I and my Father are one God.” He did not say that He is the Father Himself. Neither did He say, “I am my Father.” If that is what He meant then they must be one in number. But are they one in number?
Certainly not!
As far as number is concerned, Christ and the Father are two. That makes Christ’s judgment or decision true because He is not alone in making it; there are two of them: He and the Father (Jn. 8:16-18, Amplified Bible)
The Father is in heaven (Mt. 6:9, KJV); Christ was then on earth. How could Christ was then on earth be at the same time the Father who is in heaven? Even Christ is now in heaven, He is still distinguished from God – being the right hand of God (Ps. 80:17, Col. 3:1)
In saying that, “I and my Father are one,” did Christ mean to say He is God? What did Christ mean, therefore, by the phrase “I and my Father are one”? What was the context of Christ’s statement when He said, “I and my Father are one”? The preceding verses have the answer:
“My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me: And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand. My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father’s hand”
(John 10:27-29, KJV)
Notice that Christ and God have something in common. That is, no one can pluck out of Christ’s and God’s hand the sheep given to Christ. Therefore, Christ and God are one IN TAKING CARE of Christ’s sheep, not one in nature or in being.
And why not try to continue reading the succeeding verses? Did Christ really claiming He is God?
26 "But you do not believe, because you are not of My sheep, as I said to you.
27 "My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me.
28 "And I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; neither shall anyone snatch them out of My hand.
29 "My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of My Father's hand.
30 "I and My Father are one."
31 Then the Jews took up stones again to stone Him.
32 Jesus answered them, "Many good works I have shown you from My Father. For which of those works do you stone Me?"
33 The Jews answered Him, saying, "For a good work we do not stone You, but for blasphemy, and because You, being a Man, make Yourself God."
34 Jesus answered them, "Is it not written in your law, 'I said, " You are gods" '?
35 "If He called them gods, to whom the word of God came (and the Scripture cannot be broken),
36 "do you say of Him whom the Father sanctified and sent into the world, 'You are blaspheming,' because I said, 'I am the Son of God'?
Remember, that Christ is talking to those who are not believing in Him. Christ is telling them that He is doing what God has entitled Him to do. He is telling them He was sent by God. He is telling them He is the SON OF GOD.
Those people thought that Christ was claiming to be God Himself by the statement "I and My Father are one". What they did not understand was that, Christ and God is one of taking care of the Church.
Christ is not claiming to be God. It was only the people who thought that He is claiming to be One. But, if Christ is really the God Himself, why would He rebuke those unfaithful ones by saying He is the "Son of God"?
He only affirmed that He (Christ) and God are not one (in person, or in being God). Because God is His Father and He is the Son.
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Next -- John 14:8-9 🙂
See yah!
Did God really incarnate and became human as Jesus Christ?
Did God split into two persons and became Father and Son?
If God incarnated into human, did He transform Himself from a pure Spirit into a newborn infant, which was conceived by Mary and became Jesus Christ?
If God incarnated into human and became Jesus Christ, who was then the One Christ is praying to when He was still here on earth?
If none of the above, then how?
Yes. God is not a man, and never wanted to become one because he must stand to what He had proclaimed eversince that He is God and not man. Also, He proclaimed that a man is not God.
Jesus Christ, on the other hand, is a man and, therefore, cannot be God.
No man, even the man Christ Jesus, can be both God and man... simply because it would go against God's very word.
🙂