Jesus Christ

I kind of wonder, if the only way to achieve salvation is through Jesus Christ, where does that leave all those people who came before the time of Jesus? Before Christianity, before Rome made it an official religion. The Noble Pagan, the non believer? Was it possible for them to be "saved" despite the fact the avenue for that didn't come about till the time of Jesus, and the Christian Faith didn't exist (unless you accept Jewish religion, but then they don't really believer Christ is the saviour...)

Imperial Samura

I'll get back to your question.

Jury

If what you say is true, and Jesus Christ was Not God in the flesh, then we are still in our sin! And, we are going to Hell because we are worshipping something other than God!

Again, God is the one pissed off about sin. Why would God have someone else come and pay the price to save man? What a coward! What makes the sacrifice so beautiful is that God himself took on the image of man, and died on the cross! Only God's blood is sacificial! Not some junior God or lackey angel, or man for arguments sake!

If what you say is true, then God shares power... and that is non-sense! Futher more, God is not going to turn over His creation to a lessor "junior" God-His son. You think of the world "son" in today's terms. Incorrect. In biblical terms, it meant equal!

"Jesus answered,... I and My Father are one.' Then the Jews took up stones again to stone Him. "Jesus answered them, 'Many good works I have shown you from My Father. For which of those works do you stone Me?' The Jews answered Him, saying, 'For a good work we do not stone You, but for blasphemy, and because You, being a Man, make yourself God.'" -John 10:25-33

Can I be anymore obvious? He was worshiped and HE FORGAVE SIN! ONLY GOD CAN FORGIVE SIN!

This year when Christmas comes around, don't celebrate Christmas, because during the holiday, we are worshipping Him. Bad idea! I only worship God. What about you? You honestly think Jesus Christ was a junior God? Please, make sense of this.

Jury

READ THE BIBLE!

God is the one grieved by sin! Only God can repair the damaged relationship with Him and mankind.

Imagine, a friend slapping you in the face. Only YOU would have the right to forgive them. However, if someone else came into the room and said, "I forgive you!" What kind of justice would that be?

Jesus Christ was able to do so because he was God in the flesh! Not only was the sin in violation of you, but it was also in violation of God's commandments. There is no other alternative in suggesting the deity of Jesus Christ. Jesus was also worshipped! Hello!

Jesus Christ was not a junior God! There is only ONE God! Understand?

Imagine... God, the creator of the universe having a son (in today's terms)? God saying, "Son... I want to you to sacrifice your life for mankind, because they have sinned against each other, and most importantly, me! So, go ahead Son, and die on the cross!" That would make God a COWARD!

So, go ahead Son, and die on the cross!" That would make God a COWARD!

eloi eloi lama sabachthani?

This year when Christmas comes around, don't celebrate Christmas, because during the holiday, we are worshipping Him. Bad idea! I only worship God. What about you? You honestly think Jesus Christ was a junior God? Please, make sense of this.

Fantastic!

glad you aprove of the real way

I'm not yet done replying, ushomefree. 🙂

But I'll tell you... according to the Bible...

We, Christians, are obliged to worship God. Yes. And also I worship Jesus Christ, not because He is God, but because that is what God commanded us to do. God made Jesus a Lord for us to worship Him.

I cannot question anything with God's commandments.
If it's God's commandment to worship His only begotten Son, then so be it.

Yes. Jesus can forgive our sins. He can do everything God wanted Him to do. But remember that everything Jesus did is not on His own will... it’s God's. Remember also that God has "GIVEN Jesus Christ ALL authority in heaven and on earth." The word "given" alone justifies that those authority and power of Christ is not inherent to Him. If Jesus is God Himself, then why He needed to give Himself His own authority to do His will. 🙂

There must be a reason why Jesus Christ had to die on the cross. Not because He is the God. By virtue of God's will, Jesus Christ died not for the sins of all people of the whole world actually. I'll get back to this, soon after I'm done responding to your first post. 🙂

You don't have to post the same incomplete verse again... just read the complete verse I posted. 🙂 As what I said, in that particular situation, as what Jesus rebuked those who tried to stone Him, He is not claiming to be God... He is claiming to be the Son of God.

I'm not only reading the Bible, ushomefree, 🙂 It is one thing...

... And UNDERSTANDING it is yet another thing.

Originally posted by Imperial_Samura
I kind of wonder, if the only way to achieve salvation is through Jesus Christ, where does that leave all those people who came before the time of Jesus? Before Christianity, before Rome made it an official religion. The Noble Pagan, the non believer? Was it possible for them to be "saved" despite the fact the avenue for that didn't come about till the time of Jesus, and the Christian Faith didn't exist (unless you accept Jewish religion, but then they don't really believer Christ is the saviour...)

Before the existence of Christianity, God had already built His own nation which was worthy of salvation. He became the God of Israel.

God also established an everlasting covenant between Him and his people, as recorded in the Bible:

And I will establish my covenant between me and thee and thy seed after thee in their generations for an everlasting covenant, to be a God unto thee, and to thy seed after thee.
Genesis 17:7

This was addressed to Abraham with whom God made an everlasting covenant. The covenant was not to be with Abraham alone but also with his seed - Jesus Christ.

Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ.
Galatians 3:16

The everlasting covenant of God with Abraham and his descendants has its terms and conditions which should be obeyed. God had warned that a curse would befall those who would disobey.

2 Hear ye the words of this covenant, and speak unto the men of Judah, and to the inhabitants of Jerusalem;
3 And say thou unto them, Thus saith the LORD God of Israel; Cursed be the man that obeyeth not the words of this covenant,
Jeremiah 11:2-3

God's covenant with His people is virtually a contract between Him and His people with both parties having its part to follow and honor. It was God Himself who laid down the terms and conditions of this covenant. he stated in no uncertain terms the stipulations of this covenant.

4 Which I commanded your fathers in the day that I brought them forth out of the land of Egypt, from the iron furnace, saying, Obey my voice, and do them, according to all which I command you: so shall ye be my people, and I will be your God:
5 That I may perform the oath which I have sworn unto your fathers, to give them a land flowing with milk and honey, as it is this day. Then answered I, and said, So be it, O LORD.
Jeremiah 11:4-5

The terms are clear: God's people should fulfill their part of the contract - that is, to obey God's commandments - and God would give them blessings and they would remain as His people. Failure to observe the terms of the covenant would mean incurring God's curse and losing the right and privilege to serve and worship Him. This was exactly what happened to the people of Israel:

7 For I earnestly protested unto your fathers in the day that I brought them up out of the land of Egypt, even unto this day, rising early and protesting, saying, Obey my voice.
8 Yet they obeyed not, nor inclined their ear, but walked every one in the imagination of their evil heart: therefore I will bring upon them all the words of this covenant, which I commanded them to do: but they did them not.
Jeremiah 11:7-8

But the covenant didn't stop. The covenant established by God between Him and the Israel was also the covenant between Him and Abraham's Seed - which is Christ. So the covenant was passed on to the Church established by Christ in the first century.

The covenant with the Christians also has its terms and conditions as with the Israelites.

"He who has My commandments and keeps them, it is he who loves Me. And he who loves Me will be loved by My Father, and I will love him and manifest Myself to him."
"Jesus answered and said to him, "If anyone loves Me, he will keep My word; and My Father will love him, and We will come to him and make Our home with him."
John 14:21, 23

The covenant of God, however is not limited only to the descendants of Abraham in the flesh, the Bible records:

6 But it is not as though the word of God had failed. For not all who are descended from Israel belong to Israel,
7 and not all are children of Abraham because they are his descendants; but "Through Isaac shall your descendants be named."
8 This means that it is not the children of the flesh who are the children of God, but the children of the promise are reckoned as descendants.
Romans 9:6-8

But how about the people who lived beyond the awareness of the existence of both the Israeli and Christian God? The tribal people who lived beyond the civilization? The people who didn't had the chance to reach the words of God?

Apostle Paul has the answer:

12 All who sin apart from the law will also perish apart from the law, and all who sin under the law will be judged by the law.
13 For it is not those who hear the law who are righteous in God's sight, but it is those who obey the law who will be declared righteous.
14 (Indeed, when Gentiles, who do not have the law, do by nature things required by the law, they are a law for themselves, even though they do not have the law,
15 since they show that the requirements of the law are written on their hearts, their consciences also bearing witness, and their thoughts now accusing, now even defending them.)
Romans 2:12-15

Clearly then, God wil judge those who lived apart from the law by the law written on their hearts and their consciences also bearing witness.

However, we should also remember that ignorance of the law excuses no one.

John 14:8-9 "He who has seen Me, has seen the Father

Originally posted by ushomefree
"Philip said to Him, 'Lord show us the Father, and it is sufficient for us.' Jesus said to him, 'Have I been with you so long, and yet you have not known Me, Philip? He who has seen Me has seen the Father; so how can you say, "Show us the Father"?'" -John 14:8,9

5 Thomas said to Him, "Lord, we do not know where You are going, and how can we know the way?"
6 Jesus said to him, "I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through Me.
7 "If you had known Me, you would have known My Father also; and from now on you know Him and have seen Him."
8 Philip said to Him, "Lord, show us the Father, and it is sufficient for us."
9 Jesus said to him, "Have I been with you so long, and yet you have not known Me, Philip? He who has seen Me has seen the Father; so how can you say, 'Show us the Father'?
10 "Do you not believe that I am in the Father, and the Father in Me? The words that I speak to you I do not speak on My own authority; but the Father who dwells in Me does the works.
11 "Believe Me that I am in the Father and the Father in Me, or else believe Me for the sake of the works themselves.
12 "Most assuredly, I say to you, he who believes in Me, the works that I do he will do also; and greater works than these he will do, because I go to My Father.
13 "And whatever you ask in My name, that I will do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son.
14 "If you ask anything in My name, I will do it.
John 14:5-14

Clearly, Jesus never claimed He is the Father Himself or He is the God Himself.

Obviously in the passage, Philip was some kind of doubtful. He asked Jesus if He could show him the Father.

Remember that the Father in heaven is the only true God who is a Spirit. Being a spirit means He cannot be seen - the very reason why Jesus Christ answered him, "He who has seen Me has seen the Father." This is also justified with the passage:

For since the creation of the world God's invisible qualities--his eternal power and divine nature--have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that men are without excuse.
Romans 1:20

Nobody can see God personally, because He is a Spirit. One way to see God is through the things He had created and done. It is indeed God who is doing His works - but these works He did were through Jesus Christ.

"Men of Israel, hear these words: Jesus of Nazareth, a Man attested by God to you by miracles, wonders, and signs which God did through Him in your midst, as you yourselves also know;
Acts 2:22

Reasonable enough for Jesus to exclaim:

10 "Do you not believe that I am in the Father, and the Father in Me? The words that I speak to you I do not speak on My own authority; but the Father who dwells in Me does the works.
11 "Believe Me that I am in the Father and the Father in Me, or else believe Me for the sake of the works themselves.
John 14:10-11

If He is the God Himself, why would He admit that the words He say are not just His own, but rather, it is the Father? He would definitely say He is the Father Himself if He truly is.

Simply because Jesus Christ is not the one true God. According to Him, the Father in heaven, His Father, is the one and only true God.

So we have only one true God --- and that is the Father. 🙂
Definitely not the Son Jesus Christ.

🙂

CHRONICLES
The earliest time known at which Jesus was diefied was, after the New Testament writers, in the letters of Ignatius, at the beginning of the second century.

Strong, Augustus Hopkins
Systematic Theology
p. 305

Very futile notion, ushomefree. 🙂

We all know, as Christians, that all men in the world have sinned against God. And no one is free of sin.

I know that you are also aware of the Biblical passage:

"And the wages for sin is death."

Yes. The death being referred here is not the physical death or the simple cessation of breath. We know that it is the second death in the lake of fire. Meaning everyone is going to suffer eternal punishment in the lake of fire because of sin.

But we should remember that God has sent His only begotten Son because God really loved the world... Meaning God wanted His faithful people to be saved from this second death.

The only way is Christ.

God has early pronouncement about punishment:

Everyone should be punished for his own sins, not for the sins of the others.

So Jesus Christ created the "one new man" wherein He being the Head and the Church His body. So, in the sight of God, these two - the Christ and the Church - is one new man.

The Head logically is liable for His own body. So the Head has to die for the sins of His own body.

That's why our Lord Jesus Christ bought His own Church with His own precious blood.

🙂

So that the words of God will come into fulfillment that those who are outside the Church --- it is God who will judge them into the eternal punishment in the lake of fire which is the second death.

You can read this in the Bible. 🙂

Its not that nobody can see God because he is a spirit, its that he is too holy for man to see.

We, Christians, are obliged to worship God. Yes. And also I worship Jesus Christ, not because He is God, but because that is what God commanded us to do. God made Jesus a Lord for us to worship Him.

Jesus is part of God, he came in the flesh, he was the word.

Before Jesus death, some could speak directly to God but they were also responsible for their sins. They had to sacrifice.

After Jesus died for man's sins (Jesus was the word before he came in the flesh) then he became the intermediate. Jesus is not exactly God, he is part of God, as is the Holy spirt.

"Just when was Christ made God? " When people realized Christ was just as mad as god.

Jury

Sometimes it's best to agree that we disagree.

I respect, but don't agree with your views regarding the deity of Jesus Christ.

What makes the salvation so beautiful, is that God took on human flesh, and suffered the sins of the world and ALLOWED Himself to be sacrificed for our sin. Having someone else subjected to this purpose seems unloving and empty.

THE NICEAN CREED (Read Carefully!)

The Nicean Creed (or the Nicene-Constantinopolitan Creed as Orthodox Christians call it) was developed in the fourth century and serves as the definitive statement on who exactly God is according to the Christian Church. This creed expresses common belief among all parts of the Church and is often recited in churches.

We believe in one God, the Father, the Almighty, Maker of heaven and earth, of all is, seen and unseen.

We believe in one Lord, Jesus Christ, the Son of God, eternally begotten of the Father, God from God, light from light, true God from true God, begotten, not made, of one Being with the Father; through Him all things were made. For us and for our salvation he came down from heaven, was incarnate of the Holy Spirit and the Virgin Mary and became truly human. For our sake He was crucified under Pontius Pilate; He suffered death and was buried. On the third day He rose again in accordance with the scriptures; He ascended into heaven and is seated at the right hand of the Father. He will come again in glory to judge the living and the dead, and His kingdom will have no end.

We believe in the Holy Spirit, the Lord, the giver of life, who proceeds from the Father (and the Son), who with the Father and the Son worshiped and glorified, who was spoken through the prophets. We believe in the holy catholic and apostolic church. We acknowledge one baptism for the forgiveness of sins. We look for the resurrection of the dead, and the life of the world to come. Amen.

I look forward to hearing from you again. Take care.

Colossians 1:15-17 The “firstborn” over all creation

Originally posted by ushomefree
"He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation. For by Him all things were created that are in heaven and that are on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or principalities or powers. All things were created through Him and for Him. And He is before all things, and in Him all things consist." Colossians 1:15-17

Colossians 1:15-17 does not show that Jesus is God. The passage only emphasizes that Jesus Christ is the “firstborn” over all creation. Being the “firstborn”, however, doesn’t make Him God and it tags the idea that He was “born” and one of the creations.

The birth of Jesus was recorded in the gospels in the New Testament. Definitely, Christ did not exist before He was born. He Himself was not there prior to the creation of the world.

The expression “firstborn” is used figuratively to connote the idea that Jesus Christ, being the “firstborn” over all creation, is the very reason why we are all here sharing the gift of life – all of which came from God.

Christ Himself further exclaimed His being “firstborn” over all creation:

“…before Abraham was born, I am”.
John 8:58

But what does it mean that Jesus is the “firstborn” over all creation and He was “born before Abraham”?

The clearer view was rendered on this passage:

He indeed was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you
I Peter 1:20

Jesus Christ is considered as the “firstborn” over all creation because He was foreordained by God even before the foundation of the world. This we can read in the beginning of John’s gospel concerning the “Word” or “Logos”.

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
John 1:1

Read more...

CHRONICLES
Like its worship, the faith of the Church underwent some development, and, in fact, its chief dogma, belief in the divinity of Jesus Christ, was not defined until the Council of Nicaea in 325.

Thomas Bokenkotter
A Concise History of the Catholic Church
pp. 58-59

🙂

Originally posted by clickclick
[b](1)Its not that nobody can see God because he is a spirit, its that he is too holy for man to see.

Jesus is part of God, he came in the flesh, he was the word.

Before Jesus death, some could speak directly to God but they were also responsible for their sins. They had to sacrifice.

After Jesus died for man's sins (Jesus was the word before he came in the flesh) then he became the intermediate. (2)Jesus is not exactly God, he is part of God, as is the Holy spirt. [/B]

1. Yes. And being a Spirit, God has no physical form - no bones, no flesh.

2. And what is He? a semi-God? a tri-God? According to whom? According to yourself? 🙂

Here, according to the Bible:

There is only one God.
And of course, this God is the only true God.
This God is called as YHWH, and by Christ as "Father".
Jesus Christ is the Son of God.
This God is His Father.
So, the Son is definitely not the Father.
The Son is a Man.
God is God and not Man. And doesn't want to become one.
A man is not God, and can never be one.
But according to the Son Himself: The Father is the only true God.

Therefore this one and only true God is the Father... definitiely not the Son.

If you find it hard to understand with reason and logic... Read the Bible, you can find them there. 🙂

Originally posted by ushomefree
Jury

Sometimes it's best to agree that we disagree.

I respect, but don't agree with your views regarding the deity of Jesus Christ.

What makes the salvation so beautiful, is that God took on human flesh, and suffered the sins of the world and ALLOWED Himself to be sacrificed for our sin. Having someone else subjected to this purpose seems unloving and empty.

THE NICEAN CREED (Read Carefully!)

The Nicean Creed (or the Nicene-Constantinopolitan Creed as Orthodox Christians call it) was developed in the fourth century and serves as the definitive statement on who exactly God is according to the Christian Church. This creed expresses common belief among all parts of the Church and is often recited in churches.

We believe in one God, the Father, the Almighty, Maker of heaven and earth, of all is, seen and unseen.

We believe in one Lord, Jesus Christ, the Son of God, eternally begotten of the Father, God from God, light from light, true God from true God, begotten, not made, of one Being with the Father; through Him all things were made. For us and for our salvation he came down from heaven, was incarnate of the Holy Spirit and the Virgin Mary and became truly human. For our sake He was crucified under Pontius Pilate; He suffered death and was buried. On the third day He rose again in accordance with the scriptures; He ascended into heaven and is seated at the right hand of the Father. He will come again in glory to judge the living and the dead, and His kingdom will have no end.

We believe in the Holy Spirit, the Lord, the giver of life, who proceeds from the Father (and the Son), who with the Father and the Son worshiped and glorified, who was spoken through the prophets. We believe in the holy catholic and apostolic church. We acknowledge one baptism for the forgiveness of sins. We look for the resurrection of the dead, and the life of the world to come. Amen.

I look forward to hearing from you again. Take care.

✅ Yes. I know it's the Nicene Creed. 🙄 Thanks for sharing.

And here is the Bible.

[b]Jn 17:1-3, (NKJV)

Jesus spoke these words,
lifted up His eyes to heaven, and said:
"[size=4]Father, the hour has come.
Glorify Your Son, that Your Son also may glorify You,
"as You have given Him authority over all flesh,
that He should give eternal life to as many as You have given Him.
"And this is eternal life, that they may know You,
the only true God,
and Jesus Christ whom You have sent.[/b][/size]

🙂

Don't worry, I'll get back to your posts. 🙂

CHRONICLES
When we read Paul’s Letter to the church at Corinth, it becomes clear that many problems faced the church within its own membership.

Paul’s other letters also reveal controversies and power-struggles in the midst of encouragement and growth… Some people tried to mix Christian and non-Christian religious beliefs. The first letter of John speaks of those who once belonged to the Christian community but had now departed. They denied the true humanity of Jesus Christ.

Tim Dowley
Eerdman’s Handbook to the History of Christianity
p. 73

Jury

Let's concentrate on salvation for a moment. And bear with me...

God came through the channel of a virgin's womb. God (in spirit form) took upon Himself a body. Phillippians 2:5-8 explicitly explains this great theological truth. "Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus: Who. being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God: But made himself of no reputationn, and took upon Him the form of a servent, and was made in the likeness of men: And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled Himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross."

The phrase, He humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even death on the cross is the focal point of this message. God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit held a metting in eternity past and planned the entire program of redemption. All three were at the time in spirit form. God the Father was and still is a spirit. John 4:24 "God is spirit, and His worshipers must worship in spirit and in turth." Christ was a spirit because HE was (past tense) in the form of God, spirit form. Phillippians 2:6 "Who being in very nature God, did not consider equality with God something to be grasped..."

At this meeting of the Trinity in ages past, it was agreed that one of the three would eventually become human with a covering of flesh, and Christ was the elected member to fullfill salvation's plan. Galatians 4:4,5 pictures the facts as they occured. "But when the fullness of the time was come, God sent forth His Son, made of a woman, made under the law, to redeem them that were under the law..."

Does this simplistic doctrinal truth penetrate your reasoning process? Hear it again. "God sent forth His Son, made of a woman." There it is, Christ's deity and humanity, His eternity and birth. God sent the Son who was in His presence, meaning that Christ existed as God before coming to earth. Micah 5:2 "But you, Bethlehem Ephrathah, though you are small among the clans (or rulers) of Judah, out of you will come for me one who will be ruler of Israel, whose origins are from the old, from ancient times (days of eternity)." However, He was made of a woman when He was sent. This of course, the virgin birth, which took place in manger centuries ago when God became man.

When the Trinity outlined the plan, all the events of future history were foreknown. Remember, God knows everything. The plan progressed according to the omniscience of the Godhead. Since God knows everything and all things about all things, the following points were known thousands, yes, millions of years before they occured.

I imagine the conversation in the heavenlies went as follows: "because man will yield to temptation and fall, there will need to be a sacrifice offered. Since sinful flesh is responsible and sicne the life of the flesh is in the blood (Leviticus 17:11 "For the life of a creature is in the blood, and I have given it to you to make atonement for yourselves on the altar; it is the blood that makes atonement for one's life."😉, the decree is established in the counsles of eternity that the shedding of blood, which typifies DEATH to the flesh, will be the eternal sacrifice offered. It is the blood that maketh an atonement for the soul (Leviticus 17:11). Animal blood will be temporarily offered until one of us goes and presents the permanent sacrifice.

Many have rejected, especially today, the only method of salvation God has given the world - the shedding or sacrifice of blood for the remission of sins. Self-righteous efforts, good works, prayers, creeds, religious observations, the Sermon of the Mount, the Golden Rule, and the observance of the Ten Commandments are but the waving of fig trees in the face of Almighty God, like Adeam and Eve finally realized. Mnay of these things are good spiritually because one is a Christian, but any method of trying to enter into eternal life that avoids or bypasses the blood will only result in eternal seperation from God who made the decree. It is the blood that maketh an atonement for the soul (Leviticus 17:11). Now, let's go a step further....

Again we hear from the three members of the Godhead speaking in eternity past: "Animal blood will be only a temporary solution because it cannot take away sin, only cover it. Man's blood is tainted through Adam's sin. Therefore, only one option or course of action is possible. One of the three of us will have to go to earth and take flesh as a covering. This will be necessary because flesh contains blood and the One chosen will have to shed that blood to take away the sins of the human race which animal sacrifices only covered!

"The One who goes and take upon himself that body must have a speacial birth, because all humans born through natural generation or through the regular channels of birth in herit the old wicked sinful nature of Adam. Therefore, the One chosen will have to be special birth in the womb of a virgin - detouring the normal means of reproduction through intercourse and by this Holy act eliminating the possibility of being born with Adam's sinful nature. Romans 5:12, 18,19 "Therefore, just as sin entered the world through one man, and death through sin, and in this way death came to all men, because all sinned-Consequently, just as the result of one trespass was condemnation for all men, so also the result of one act of righteousness was justification that brings life for all men. For just as through the disobedience of the one man the many were made sinners, so also through the obedience of the one man that many will be made righteous."

Does this conversation of the Trinity in ages past seem far-fetched to you? Are you wondering if this entire plan presented is really in the Bible? Listen to Revelation 13:8, [Christ was]... the lamb slain from the foundation of the world. Christ's shedding of Hid blood did not take Him by surprise nearly 2,000 years ago. Rather, it was part of the plan HE had helped initiate before the world was formed. That's why Acts 2:23 states, Him [Christ] being delivered by the determinate counsel and foreknowledge of God, ye have taken, and by wicked hands have crucified and slain. In other words, the wicked only did to Christ what the foreknowledge of God planned.

Did it happen? Yes. God came into the world in human flesh to take a body that contained blood. It was special blood that did not have the taint of Adam's sin integrated into it by Christ's having a human father. Instead, the Father and the Holy Spirit placed this created miracle into the womb of the virgin without an act of intercourse or human insemination so that pure blood might course through the Redeemer's veins. Then He shed that blood at Calvary to take away sins that had only been covered by animal sacrifices.

The proof of these truths is in the following scripture. Hebrews 10:4, "For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and of goats should take away sins." Notice, animal blood could not take away sins. The Old Testament word atonement means "to cover" - only "to cover." The priest offering the animal would say, "I know that this act only covers the sinner's sin until your sacrificial Lamb comes, dear God."

Who was God's Lamb? Hebrews 10:5, "When Jesus cometh into the world, he saith, a body has thou prepared for me." That Body was placed in the womb by God the Father and God the Holy Spirit. Luke 1:35, "And the angel answered and said unto her, the Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee." The Holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God!

When John the Baptist saw Christ upon the earth he said in John 1;29, "Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world." Praise God, this was thje Lamb sent from heaven who could take away that which was only temporarily coverered. On the cross, Christ cried out, "It is finished." He was not speaking abuot His life, but about the plan that had been foreordained before the foundation of the world.

Am I certain of this? Yes. [We have been] redeemed... with the precios blood of Christ, as of a Lamb without blemish and without spot: Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world (1 Peter 1:18-20).

Imagine, this precious blood shed for your sins was planned for you before the world was formed. Seven hundred times the blood is mentioned as the only - THE ONLY - way of salvation!

Jury

The Nicean Creed was formulated, developed and regulated in accordance with the Holy Bible. The Nicean Creed does NOT in anyway, add or take away from biblical scripture. If your confused about that, read it again.

Take care buddy.