Jesus Christ

*["You know, you might be more credible is you ever posted something that showed you'd read a book other than the bible..."]

***You FEAR the Bible for you CANNOT refute it and are IMPOTENT in your arguments against it...and it reveals WHO and WHAT you really ARE...a SINNER who does NOT want to REPENT of his SIN before God...and WARS against God...to wit: "For the Word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a DISCERNER of the THOUGHTS and INTENTS of the heart. Neither is there any CREATURE that is NOT manifest in His sight: but ALL things are NAKED and OPENED unto the EYES of Him with whom we have to do" [Hebrews 4:12,13].

I have read MANY books...MORE than you. The Bible [a compilation of 66 books] is the ONLY volume that has ALL the ANSWERS needed for the SALVATION of the human race...and God's ONLY revelation to man as to Who He IS and His PROVISION for that SALVATION in the person of Jesus Christ the Lord. Your rejection of the Bible and it's truth gives credence to the Scripture: "But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost" [2 Corinthians 4:3].
***********************************************

*["...and that's what so much of this comes down to in the long run. People who babble on and on about Jesus and post quotes from teh bible, or quotes from people interpreting the bible, never use other sources. You think your knowledge, your often times incorrect interpretation (I might say), of the bible is your only basis for argument. Pick up another book. Do you honetly think god would want teh unenlightened arguing his cause? If he exists in the manner in which you imply, do you think he'd want ten idiots arguing his case or 2 diversly educated people?"]

***N/A
************************************************

*["...If god has a valid point in communicating with his own creation, then why can he not do it himself in a manner that is logical? You want to tell everyone that he is a being with no peer whose motivation is intentionally ambiguous and best left in the hands of the very people you yourself claim he sought to deny knowledge to in the first place?

If he didn't want man to eat from the tree of knowledge and gain enlightenment, they WHY CREATE THE TREE IN THE FIRST ****ING PLACE?..."]

***You have a FILTHY mouth!...I suggest [for your own well-being] that you TEMPER your mouth...for someday someone may put his arm down your throat and pull out your tonsils. Too, we don't need that kind of "talk" on this board or any other board...for that kind of "talk" reveals the CHARACTER of the one that uses it: "...how can ye, being evil, speak good things? for out of the ABUNDANCE of the HEART the MOUTH speaketh. A GOOD man out of the GOOD treasure of His HEART bringeth forth GOOD THINGS; and an EVIL man out of the EVIL treasure bringeth EVIL things" [Matthew 12:34,35].

Marchello

Originally posted by sonnet
Together we will stand in His Glory and worship our Lord God. That day is closer now than ever before. May the Lord bless and keep you safe.

Originally posted by sonnet
***Ignorance is NOT a TERMINAL [even if it is WILLFUL]...however, STUPIDITY is.

Marchello

You guys SERIOUSLY need to get Laid !

I know some cheap prostitution bars if you'd like....

Originally posted by Lord Urizen
You guys [b]SERIOUSLY need to get Laid !

I know some cheap prostitution bars if you'd like.... [/B]

Originally posted by Marchello
*["You know, you might be more credible is you ever posted something that showed you'd read a book other than the bible..."]

***You FEAR the Bible for you CANNOT refute it and are IMPOTENT in your arguments against it...and it reveals WHO and WHAT you really ARE...a SINNER who does NOT want to REPENT of his SIN before God...and WARS against God...to wit: "For the Word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a DISCERNER of the THOUGHTS and INTENTS of the heart. Neither is there any CREATURE that is NOT manifest in His sight: but ALL things are NAKED and OPENED unto the EYES of Him with whom we have to do" [Hebrews 4:12,13].

I have read MANY books...MORE than you. The Bible [a compilation of 66 books] is the ONLY volume that has ALL the ANSWERS needed for the SALVATION of the human race...and God's ONLY revelation to man as to Who He IS and His PROVISION for that SALVATION in the person of Jesus Christ the Lord. Your rejection of the Bible and it's truth gives credence to the Scripture: "But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost" [2 Corinthians 4:3].
***********************************************

*["...and that's what so much of this comes down to in the long run. People who babble on and on about Jesus and post quotes from teh bible, or quotes from people interpreting the bible, never use other sources. You think your knowledge, your often times incorrect interpretation (I might say), of the bible is your only basis for argument. Pick up another book. Do you honetly think god would want teh unenlightened arguing his cause? If he exists in the manner in which you imply, do you think he'd want ten idiots arguing his case or 2 diversly educated people?"]

***N/A
************************************************

*["...If god has a valid point in communicating with his own creation, then why can he not do it himself in a manner that is logical? You want to tell everyone that he is a being with no peer whose motivation is intentionally ambiguous and best left in the hands of the very people you yourself claim he sought to deny knowledge to in the first place?

If he didn't want man to eat from the tree of knowledge and gain enlightenment, they WHY CREATE THE TREE IN THE FIRST ****ING PLACE?..."]

***You have a FILTHY mouth!...I suggest [for your own well-being] that you TEMPER your mouth...for someday someone may put his arm down your throat and pull out your tonsils. Too, we don't need that kind of "talk" on this board or any other board...for that kind of "talk" reveals the CHARACTER of the one that uses it: "...how can ye, being evil, speak good things? for out of the ABUNDANCE of the HEART the MOUTH speaketh. A GOOD man out of the GOOD treasure of His HEART bringeth forth GOOD THINGS; and an EVIL man out of the EVIL treasure bringeth EVIL things" [Matthew 12:34,35].

Marchello

And, again, all we see are bible references. Thank you for proving my point so blatantly.

and any time you'd like to come out here and hit me, you are welcome to do so. I understand you think that threatening physical violence carries weight on an internet forum, after all: you treat the bible like proof of your christian god. If you need to resort to the threat of violence to add some measure of validity to your argument, then I commend you on completely failing to prove your point.

Originally posted by Capt_Fantastic
And, again, all we see are bible references. Thank you for proving my point so blatantly.

and any time you'd like to come out here and hit me, you are welcome to do so. I understand you think that threatening physical violence carries weight on an internet forum, after all: you treat the bible like proof of your christian god. If you need to resort to the threat of violence to add some measure of validity to your argument, then I commend you on completely failing to prove your point.

***I NEVER make threats. However, there are people out there who MIGHT take humbrage to your use of PROFANITY. I am only trying to tell you to curtail your foul language in order to NOT put yourself in danger...I'm sorry that you don't appreciate that.

Marchello

Originally posted by Marchello
***I NEVER make threats. However, there are people out there who MIGHT take humbrage to your use of PROFANITY. I am only trying to tell you to curtail your foul language in order to NOT put yourself in danger...I'm sorry that you don't appreciate that.

Marchello

I appreciate that you think you need to worry about me. That's very christian of you. But it's also very christian of you to never answer a challenge to your point of view, threaten, condemn, fear mongering; all the while you quote the bible.

And my point is that you'd be taken as less of a joke if you ever quoted another source. As it is, I accuse you of limiting yourself by never quoting any source other than the bible, and you respond by quoting the bible. where's the logic in that?

Originally posted by sonnet
Together we will stand in His Glory and worship our Lord God. That day is closer now than ever before. May the Lord bless and keep you safe.

Jesus Barabbas had no intention of changing Jewish laws - only expectations. He was a fanatically dedicated Jew of an apocalyptic order, the Nazarenes, who believed that God had begun to create his kingdom on earth. He stoutly defended the Law of Moses as the gospels illogically admit. The Jewish people were fed up and hoping for their enemies to be overcome. Jesus Barabbas was one of many men who thought he could lead his people into the kingdom of God. He could only do this if he believed that he was God sent. He did and accepted the crown of David.

He began by urging people that they should prepare for the coming kingdom just as John the Baptist did. Only the Righteous could enter the kingdom so he invited Jews to sincerely repent and symbolically purify themselves through baptism and prepare themselves for the coming battle. In doing this he was metaphorically casting out evil spirits, making the blind see and healing the sick. Those who were thus purified could enter the kingdom and were the soldiers in the messianic army. He made no claim to be the Messiah.

Jesus believed that God helps those who help themselves. So the kingdom of Heaven has to be won by the Righteous showing that they were ready to take on their enemies, then God would intervene with a miracle. He knew it would not be easy for it was prophesied that those called to the messianic kingdom would have to face the might of the heathen. They had to sustain these tribulations to prove themselves faithful.

http://www.askwhy.co.uk/books/mysteryofbarabbas.htm

Originally posted by Marchello
Page 1:
***And, of course, you are in error...NOT knowing the Scriptures NOR God that you might be saved. Philippians 2:5-11 is broken down into two sections...The Humiliation of Christ [2:5-8] and The Exaltation of Christ [2:9-11].

(A)THE HUMILIATION OF CHRIST

Believers are exhorted to have the SAME attitude [i.e., selfless humility] that the Lord Jesus exhibited in His HUMILIATION and CONDESCENSION. The word "attitude" in (v.2) means "like-minded." The word translated [morphe] in verses 6 and 7 is a crucial term in this passage. This word [translated "form"] stresses the "inner essence or reality" of that with which it is associated in Mark 16:12,13...[i.e., These verses summarize the story about the two Emmaus disciples (Luke 24:13-35). The words "two of them" indicate that they were part of the group who DISBELIEVED Mary's report (Mark 16:10-11). "While they were" out "walking," going from Jerusalem into "the country," Jesus "appeared" (v.9) to them "in a different form" (i.e., hetera morphe, "a form of a different kind"😉. This meant that He took on a "form" DIFFERENT from that in which He APPEARED to Mary Magdalene...that He appeared to them in a "form" DIFFERENT from that in which they had previously recognized Him as Jesus.] Christ Jesus, Paul said, IS of the "very essence" [i.e., the intrinsic nature or characteristic quality of anything...MORPHE] of God...and in His Incarnation He embraced perfect HUMANITY. His COMPLETE and ABSOLUTE DEITY is here carefully stressed by the apostle. The Saviour's CLAIM to DEITY infuriated the Jewish leadership [John 5:18] and caused them to accuse Him of BLASPHEMY [John 10:33].

Though possessing full DEITY [John 1:14;Colossians 2:9], Jesus did NOT consider His "equality with God" [Philippians 2:6] as "something to be grasped" or held onto. In other words Christ did NOT HESITATE to set aside His SELF-WILLED use of DEITY when He became a MAN. As God He had ALL the RIGHTS of DEITY...and YET during His Incarnate state He surrendered His right to MANIFEST Himself VISIBLY as the God of all SPLENDOR and GLORY.

(Continued)

With respect to the colored line above, give me other Bible verses that MORPHE is used to refer to "inner essence or reality" and I'll show you verses that prove otherwise. If you can't, the rest of your post would be meaningless because you adapted an erroneous definition of MORPHE.

Just a thought here... If Jesus is indeed God, why would Paul say He existed in the "form of God"? Why can't he rather say Jesus is God? If my toy has a form of a man, it doesn't necessarily mean my toy is a man with "essencial nature". The toy is only taking the form [MORPHE] of a man, that is, with "outside appearance".

Originally posted by Jury
With respect to the colored line above, give me other Bible verses that MORPHE is used to refer to "inner essence or reality" and I'll show you verses that prove otherwise. If you can't, the rest of your post would be meaningless because you adapted an erroneous definition of MORPHE.

Just a thought here... If Jesus is indeed God, why would Paul say He existed in the "form of God"? Why can't he rather say Jesus is God? If my toy has a form of a man, it doesn't necessarily mean my toy is a man with "essencial nature". The toy is only taking the form [MORPHE] of a man, that is, with "outside appearance".

***You can go on with this "morphe" SMOKE-SCREEN forever...and it would settle NOTHING...for you are determined to NOT believe, BEFORE hand, ANYTHING that I would present.

You are, in reality, using it to obscure the REAL issue here...and that ISSUE is...whether Jesus Christ IS your Saviour or NOT. You say He IS because the Scriptures say He IS...and the Scriptures do, INDEED, say He is the Saviour. However, He CANNOT be YOUR Saviour because the VERY Scriptures that you cite say that ONLY God is Saviour...to wit: "Yet I am the LORD thy God from the land of Egypt, and thou shalt know NO GOD but ME: for there is NO SAVIOUR BESIDE ME" [Hosea 13:4]. How, then, can Jesus be YOUR Saviour IF He is NOT God [as you allege]?...and the Scriptures declare ONLY God is Saviour [Hosea 13:4].

Again...How can Jesus be your Saviour if He is NOT God [as you allege] when the Scriptures say ONLY God is Saviour? BTW, why would you NEED a Saviour...and WHAT did He save you from? It surely CANNOT be for your SINS for [again] ONLY GOD is Saviour [Hosea 13:4] and He ONLY can FORGIVE SINS [Mark 2:7;Psalm 103:2-3].

Marchello

Originally posted by Marchello
***You can go on with this "morphe" SMOKE-SCREEN forever...and it would settle NOTHING...for you are determined to NOT believe, BEFORE hand, ANYTHING that I would present.

You are, in reality, using it to obscure the REAL issue here...and that ISSUE is...whether Jesus Christ IS your Saviour or NOT. You say He IS because the Scriptures say He IS...and the Scriptures do, INDEED, say He is the Saviour. However, He CANNOT be YOUR Saviour because the VERY Scriptures that you cite say that ONLY God is Saviour...to wit: "Yet I am the LORD thy God from the land of Egypt, and thou shalt know NO GOD but ME: for there is NO SAVIOUR BESIDE ME" [Hosea 13:4]. How, then, can Jesus be YOUR Saviour IF He is NOT God [as you allege]?...and the Scriptures declare ONLY God is Saviour [Hosea 13:4].

Again...How can Jesus be your Saviour if He is NOT God [as you allege] when the Scriptures say ONLY God is Saviour? BTW, why would you NEED a Saviour...and WHAT did He save you from? It surely CANNOT be for your SINS for [again] ONLY GOD is Saviour [Hosea 13:4] and He ONLY can FORGIVE SINS [Mark 2:7;Psalm 103:2-3].

Marchello

Mr. Marchello, why can't we just go on with this discussion and set aside your irrelevant comments this time until we get done with Phil. 2:5-11? You rather sound giving up in this discussion. I don't want that to happen.

See? You can't simply use a verse and make your own interpretation without considering the real application of the terms used. What you simply do is present as how YOUR queer mind understand it and the real meaning of the verse was set aside.

As to the "SAVIOR" thing, don't worry we'll get there. But I give you a hint... Just because Jesus Christ is the Savior, it would mean He is God Himself. Did you forget that God MADE Christ as SAVIOR? This authority was not inherent to Christ... The true God gave it to Him. Whatever authority God have... Jesus Christ also have. But the difference is obvious: God's was inherent, Christ's was given.

My appeal is this, before you make irrelevant side-comments let's get done with Phil.2:5-11 first. I repeat the request I made in my previous post... Please, show me other Biblical verses that used MORPHE as "inner essence or reality"... If you can't, just tell me... And I show you that MORPHE means "outward appearance" as the Bible used it.

Originally posted by Capt_Fantastic
I appreciate that you think you need to worry about me. That's very christian of you. But it's also very christian of you to never answer a challenge to your point of view, threaten, condemn, fear mongering; all the while you quote the bible.

And my point is that you'd be taken as less of a joke if you ever quoted another source. As it is, I accuse you of limiting yourself by never quoting any source other than the bible, and you respond by quoting the bible. where's the logic in that?

By the same token you never quote the Bible (which is a source) so what is the logic in that?

It is a two-way street pal. You bellyache over the fact that we don't quote other sources other than the Bible (which is untrue), but yet you quote everything but the Bible. You can't see the hypocrisy and contradiction in your complaint? I have seen other Christians (including myself) quote sources other than the Bible so to charge Marchello with not doing so is a lie. Now, if you have quoted the Bible then disregard what I have said and let the games (as it were) begin.

Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
By the same token you never quote the Bible (which is a source) so what is the logic in that?

It is a two-way street pal. You bellyache over the fact that we don't quote other sources other than the Bible (which is untrue), but yet you quote everything but the Bible. You can't see the hypocrisy and contradiction in your complaint? I have seen other Christians (including myself) quote sources other than the Bible so to charge Marchello with not doing so is a lie. Now, if you have quoted the Bible then disregard what I have said and let the games (as it were) begin.

A source for what? Not for historical or scientific occurences.

It's like using any book as a source to prove something in the real world just by accepting it as fact. It is not how the scientific method works.

Also, I have seen quite a few people quote the bible where it is not convenient with the general hateful interpretation as many fundamentalists nowadays fancy it.

Originally posted by sonnet
No thank you, I've got a husband and the sex is great.

Do you know what an orgasm is ?

If you ever felt one, you wouldn't be this uptight. Usually, people with enjoyable sex lives are satisfied with themselves and do not feel the need to moderate someone else's life.

Originally posted by Lord Urizen
Do you know what an orgasm is ?

If you ever felt one, you wouldn't be this uptight. Usually, people with enjoyable sex lives are satisfied with themselves and do not feel the need to moderate someone else's life.

***You're one sick puppy! The only satisfaction that you are acquainted with is "self-gratification." Too, your're a coward and hide behind the anonymity of the internet...the only place you can get ANY recognition for ANYTHING. Guys like you COULDN'T "make out" if you had a pocket full of hundred dollar bills in a house of ill repute. I wonder why the Administrater of this board permits guys like you to make these kind of comments to women on this board. You're FILTH...pure FILTH!

Marchello

So how far have we come?

About 1.3 centimeters.

Page 1:

Originally posted by Jury
Mr. Marchello, why can't we just go on with this discussion and set aside your irrelevant comments this time until we get done with Phil. 2:5-11? You rather sound giving up in this discussion. I don't want that to happen.

See? You can't simply use a verse and make your own interpretation without considering the real application of the terms used. What you simply do is present as how YOUR queer mind understand it and the real meaning of the verse was set aside.

As to the "SAVIOR" thing, don't worry we'll get there. But I give you a hint... Just because Jesus Christ is the Savior, it would mean He is God Himself. Did you forget that God MADE Christ as SAVIOR? This authority was not inherent to Christ... The true God gave it to Him. Whatever authority God have... Jesus Christ also have. But the difference is obvious: God's was inherent, Christ's was given.

My appeal is this, before you make irrelevant side-comments let's get done with [b]Phil.2:5-11 first. I repeat the request I made in my previous post... Please, show me other Biblical verses that used MORPHE as "inner essence or reality"... If you can't, just tell me... And I show you that MORPHE means "outward appearance" as the Bible used it. [/B]

***Many scholars believe that Paul's writings are some of the earliest NT documents written...predating even the composition of the four Gospels. For example, the late Catholic scholar, Raymond E. Brown believes that of the thirteen Pauline epistles, seven are Paul's: 1 Thessalonians, Galatians, Philippians, Philemon, 1 & 2 Corinthians, and Romans.

Since the consensus of scholars place 1 Thessalonians as the first of the NT books to be written we will focus our attention on it in order to see the type of Christology Paul presents to his readers. We will also look at several other Pauline epistles in order to get a fuller picture of "the kind of Jesus" Paul presented to the FIRST generation of believers.

And instead of commenting on all the citations from 1 Thessalonians, we will save our analysis toward the end when we summarize Paul's Christology. For now, we will simply highlight in brackets [] the significant parts of these verses...to wit:

(Continued)

Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
By the same token you never quote the Bible (which is a source) so what is the logic in that?

I also never quote Grimm's Fairy Tales or Greek mythology.

Page 2:

“To the church of the Thessalonians [in God the Father and the Lord Jesus Christ]... For they themselves report concerning us the kind of reception we had among you, and how you turned to God from idols to serve the living and true God, and to wait for [his Son from heaven, whom he raised from the dead, Jesus who delivers us from the wrath to
come.”] (1 Thessalonians 1:1, 9-10)

“For you, brothers, became imitators of the churches of God [in Christ Jesus] that are in Judea. For you suffered the same things from your own countrymen as they did from the Jews, who killed both [the Lord Jesus] and the prophets, and drove us out, and displease God and oppose all mankind by hindering us from speaking to the Gentiles that they might be saved--so as always to fill up the measure of their sins. But God’s wrath has come upon them at last!… For what is our hope or joy or crown of boasting before [our Lord Jesus at his coming?] Is it not you?” (1 Thessalonians 2:14-16, 19)

“Now may our God and Father himself, [and our Lord Jesus], direct our way to you, and may the Lord make you increase and abound in love for one another and for all, as we do for you, so that he may establish your hearts blameless in holiness before our God and Father, [at the coming of our Lord Jesus] with all his saints.” (1 Thessalonians 3:11-13)

“But we do not want you to be uninformed, brothers, about those who are asleep, that you may not grieve as others do who have no hope. For since we believe [that Jesus died and rose again], even so, [through Jesus], God will bring with him those who have fallen asleep.
For this we declare to you [by a word from the Lord], that we who are alive, [who are left until the coming of the Lord], will not precede those who have fallen asleep. [For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven] with a cry of command, with the voice of an archangel, and with the sound of the trumpet of God. [And the dead in Christ will rise first]. Then we who are alive, who are left, will be caught up together with them in the clouds [to meet the Lord in the air, and so we will always be with the Lord]. Therefore encourage one another with these words.” (1 Thessalonians 4:13-18)

“Now concerning the times and the seasons, brothers, you have no need to have anything written to you. For you yourselves are fully aware [that the day of the Lord will come like a thief in the night]... For God has not destined us for wrath, but to obtain salvation [through our Lord Jesus Christ, who died for us] so that whether we are awake or asleep we might live with him.” (1 Thessalonians 5:1-2, 9-10)

“Now may the God of peace himself sanctify you completely, and may your whole spirit and soul and body be kept blameless [at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ].” (1 Thessalonians 5:23)

"The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with you." (1 Thessalonians 5:28)

(Continued)

Page 3:

We now would like to examine a few citations from 1 Corinthians:

“Therefore, as to the eating of food offered to idols, we know that ‘an idol has no real existence,’ and that ‘there is no God but one.’ For although there may be so-called gods in heaven or on earth--as indeed there are many ‘gods’ and many ‘lords’-- yet for us there is one God, the Father, from whom are all things and for whom we exist, and [one Lord], Jesus Christ, [through whom are all things and through whom we exist.]” (1 Corinthians 8:4-6)

Paul says that Jesus is the one Lord of OT monotheism, the very One through whom all things were created and kept together. Paul’s concern in this context is explicitly monotheism. The issue of eating meat offered
to idols and participation in temple banquets is an instance of the highly traditional Jewish monotheistic concern for the loyalty to the only true God in a context of pagan polytheistic worship. What Paul does is to maintain this Jewish monotheistic concern in a Christian interpretation for which loyalty to the only true God entails loyalty to the Lord Jesus Christ. He takes up from the Corinthians’ letter (at the end of verse 4) the typical Jewish monotheistic formula "there is no God except one" in order to agree with it and to give, in verse 6, his own fuller monotheistic formulation, which contrasts the many gods and many lords of the Corinthians’ pagan environment (verse 5) with the one God and one
Lord to whom Christians owe exclusive allegiance.

Verse 6 is a carefully formulated statement:
(a) but for us [there is] one God, the Father,
(b) from whom [are] all things and we for him,
(c) and one Lord, Jesus Christ,
(d) through whom [are] all things and we through him.

The statement has been composed from two sources, both clearly recognizable. One is the "Shema"...the classic Jewish statement of the uniqueness of God, taken from the Torah itself, recited TWICE daily by all observant Jews, as we noticed in chapter 1. It is now commonly recognized that Paul has here adapted the Shema’ and produced, as it were, a Christian version of it. Not so widely recognized is the full significance of this. In the first and third lines of Paul’s formula [labelled (a) and (c) above], Paul has in fact reproduced all the words of the statement about YHWH in the Shema’ [Deut. 6:4: "The LORD our God,
the LORD, is one."]

(Continued)