Originally posted by Marchello
*["...Shall we discuss Philippians 2:5-10 then? Can you make your contention regarding this verse alone?"]***I always defer to my unbelieving adversaries...knowing full well that they have ALREADY out-of-hand REJECTED what I WILL say.
Marchello
Originally posted by peejayd
* why not? here's the verse:"For to us a child is born, to us a son is given; and the government will be upon his shoulder, and his name will be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace."
Isaiah 9:6* what an uncanny way of twisting the Scriptures... whose name is it? it is very clear, my friend, that it is the child's and NOT the government's...
* i want to make this clear: if you accept that the government is God, does your doctrine allows you to believe on two Gods? hence, the Father and the government?
Pitiful. I may suggest again that you read my post about that. Don't jump to foolish and misleading conclusion.
Originally posted by peejayd
* sure, no problem..."Awaiting our blessed hope, the appearing of the glory of our great God and Savior Jesus Christ,"
Titus 2:13"Simeon Peter, a servant and apostle of Jesus Christ, To those who have obtained a faith of equal standing with ours in the righteousness of our God and Savior Jesus Christ:"
II Peter 1:1* isn't Christ was proclaimed God by both Saint Paul and Saint Peter?
Have you ever tried to compare the verses rendered by other existing Bible versions? I know you do... can you post them here?
Originally posted by peejayd
* here's Philippians 2:5-11... let us see your interpretation on these passages..."Have this mind among yourselves, which is yours in Christ Jesus,
Who, though he was in the form of God, did not count equality with God a thing to be grasped,
But emptied himself, taking the form of a servant, being born in the likeness of men.
And being found in human form he humbled himself and became obedient unto death, even death on a cross.
Therefore God has highly exalted him and bestowed on him the name which is above every name,
That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, in heaven and on earth and under the earth,
And every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father."
Philippians 2:5-11* it is more blatant in other translations...
"Your attitude should be the same that Christ Jesus had.
Though he was God, he did not demand and cling to his rights as God.
He made himself nothing; he took the humble position of a slave and appeared in human form.
And in human form he obediently humbled himself even further by dying a criminal's death on a cross.
Because of this, God raised him up to the heights of heaven and gave him a name that is above every other name,
So that at the name of Jesus every knee will bow, in heaven and on earth and under the earth,
And every tongue will confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father."
Philippians 2:5-11* Jesus Christ is clearly a God according to the Scriptures... 😉
Very kind of you for responding the request intended for Mr. Marchello.
So, does the verse say Jesus is God or Jesus is "found in the FORM [morphe] of God?"
ADDENDA:
*["You're not responding, Marchello. You're still making EMPTY loads.
Shall we discuss Philippians 2:5-11?"]
***I notice that you have NOT made ANY attempt to refute my "EMPTY loads"...because you CANNOT refute them. So make your points on Philippians 2:5-11 ["morphe" included]...and I will respond...I can hardly wait!!!!!
Marchello
Originally posted by Marchello
ADDENDA:*["You're not responding, Marchello. You're still making EMPTY loads.
Shall we discuss Philippians 2:5-11?"]
***I notice that you have NOT made ANY attempt to refute my "EMPTY loads"...because you CANNOT refute them. So make your points on Philippians 2:5-11 ["morphe" included]...and I will respond...I can hardly wait!!!!!
Marchello
As what I said, let's discuss it one by one. And let's start with Philippians 2:5-11.
Very well. Philippians 2:5-11 doesn't say Jesus is God... what it mentions is "Jesus is in the FORM of God".
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*["As what I said, let's discuss it one by one. And let's start with Philippians 2:5-11.
Very well. Philippians 2:5-11 doesn't say Jesus is God... what it mentions is "Jesus is in the FORM of God."]
***And, of course, you are in error...NOT knowing the Scriptures NOR God that you might be saved. Philippians 2:5-11 is broken down into two sections...The Humiliation of Christ [2:5-8] and The Exaltation of Christ [2:9-11].
(A)THE HUMILIATION OF CHRIST
Believers are exhorted to have the SAME attitude [i.e., selfless humility] that the Lord Jesus exhibited in His HUMILIATION and CONDESCENSION. The word "attitude" in (v.2) means "like-minded." The word translated [morphe] in verses 6 and 7 is a crucial term in this passage. This word [translated "form"] stresses the "inner essence or reality" of that with which it is associated in Mark 16:12,13...[i.e., These verses summarize the story about the two Emmaus disciples (Luke 24:13-35). The words "two of them" indicate that they were part of the group who DISBELIEVED Mary's report (Mark 16:10-11). "While they were" out "walking," going from Jerusalem into "the country," Jesus "appeared" (v.9) to them "in a different form" (i.e., hetera morphe, "a form of a different kind"😉. This meant that He took on a "form" DIFFERENT from that in which He APPEARED to Mary Magdalene...that He appeared to them in a "form" DIFFERENT from that in which they had previously recognized Him as Jesus.] Christ Jesus, Paul said, IS of the "very essence" [i.e., the intrinsic nature or characteristic quality of anything...MORPHE] of God...and in His Incarnation He embraced perfect HUMANITY. His COMPLETE and ABSOLUTE DEITY is here carefully stressed by the apostle. The Saviour's CLAIM to DEITY infuriated the Jewish leadership [John 5:18] and caused them to accuse Him of BLASPHEMY [John 10:33].
Though possessing full DEITY [John 1:14;Colossians 2:9], Jesus did NOT consider His "equality with God" [Philippians 2:6] as "something to be grasped" or held onto. In other words Christ did NOT HESITATE to set aside His SELF-WILLED use of DEITY when He became a MAN. As God He had ALL the RIGHTS of DEITY...and YET during His Incarnate state He surrendered His right to MANIFEST Himself VISIBLY as the God of all SPLENDOR and GLORY.
(Continued)
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Christ's humiliation included His making "Himself nothing," taking the "very nature [morphe] of a servant," and "being made in human likeness" [v.7]. These statements indicate that Christ became a MAN, a true human being. The words "made Himself nothing" are, LITERALLY, "He EMPTIED Himself"..."Emptied," from the Greek [kenoo] points to the divesting of His self-interests...but NOT of His DEITY. "The very nature of a servant" certainly points to His lowly and humble position...His willingness to OBEY the Father, and serve others [i.e., as the Suffering Servant did in Isaiah 53]. He became a MAN, a true human being. "Likeness" means SIMILARITY but DIFFERENCE. Though His humanity was GENUINE...He was DIFFERENT from ALL other human beings in that He was SINLESS [Hebrews 4:15].
Thus it is seen that Christ, while retaining the "essence of God," was also human. In His incarnation He was FULLY God and FULLY man at the SAME time. He was God MANIFEST in human flesh [John 1:14].
Some have wrongly taught that the phrase, "being found in appearance as a man" [Philippians 2:8], means that He only "looked" human...but this CONTRADICTS [v.7]. "Appearance" is the Greek [schemati], meaning an outer appearance which may be TEMPORARY. This contrasts with [morphe...i.e., "very nature'] in verses 6 and 7, which speaks of an outer appearance that reveals PERMANENT INNER QUALITY.
(Continued)
You know, you might be more credible is you ever posted something that showed you'd read a book other than the bible.
and that's what so much of this comes down to in the long run. People who babble on and on about Jesus and post quotes from teh bible, or quotes from people interpreting the bible, never use other sources. You think your knowledge, your often times incorrect interpretation (I might say), of the bible is your only basis for argument. Pick up another book. Do you honetly think god would want teh unenlightened arguing his cause? If he exists in the manner in which you imply, do you think he'd want ten idiots arguing his case or 2 diversly educated people?
If god has a valid point in communicating with his own creation, then why can he not do it himself in a manner that is logical? You want to tell everyone that he is a being with no peer whose motivation is intentionally ambiguous and best left in the hands of the very people you yourself claim he sought to deny knowledge to in the first place?
If he didn't want man to eat from the tree of knowledge and gain enlightenment, they WHY CREATE THE TREE IN THE FIRST ****ING PLACE? As I've said before, he's like the stereotypical bad guy that explains the plot to the captured hero as a device. He makes zero sense. And if you respond by saying that he is beyond explaination, then why do you try to explain him to us ad nauseum? That would mean you haven't really got a ****ing clue either!
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(B)THE EXALTATION OF CHRIST
God the Father is the subject of these verses [2:9-11], whereas in verses 6-8 God the Son was the subject. Christ's obedience was followed by the Father's exaltation of Him to the place of highest honor. God exalted and honored the ONE men DESPISED and REJECTED.
Christ's exaltation and His receiving a "name that is above every name" was the ANSWER to His high-priestly prayer [John 17:5]. The exaltation refers to His RESURRECTION, ASCENSION, and GLORIFICATION at the Father's RIGHT HAND [Acts 2:33;Hebrews 1:3;Psalm 110:1]. His "name" is not merely a TITLE...it refers to His person and to His position of DIGNITY and HONOR.
In keeping with Christ's exaltation and high "name"..."every knee" will one day "bow" and acknowledge Him for who He really IS. Paul stressed the same truth in his letter to the Romans [Romans 14:11]. Both instances reflect Isaiah's prophecy [Isaiah 45:23] of the singular greatness of the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob. The extent of Christ's SOVEREIGN authority is delineated in the threefold phrase, "in heaven and on earth and under the earth." No intelligent human being...whether angels and saints in heaven; people living on the earth; or Satan, demons, and the unsaved in Hell...in ALL of God's universe WILL ESCAPE. ALL WILL BOW...either WILLINGLY or...they WILL BOW UNWILLINGLY!...and WILL be made His FOOTSTOOL!!
What ALL will "confess" is that "Jesus Christ is Lord." This, the earliest Christian creed, meant that Jesus Christ is YAHWEH-God. One day ALL will be made to acknowledge that Jesus Christ is ALL He CLAIMED to be...very God of very God. Unfortunately, for many [like you] it will be too late for the salvation of their souls.
Finally...think about this:
In [Daniel 7:9] we are given this vivid description of the FATHER:
"I beheld till the thrones were cast down, and the ANCIENT of DAYS [the Father] did sit, whose garment was WHITE AS SNOW, and the HAIR of His head like the PURE WOOL: his throne was like the fiery flame, and His wheels as burning fire.".......and
In [Revelations 1:13-14] we are given this vivid description of the SON of God [Jesus Christ]:
"And in the midst of the seven candlesticks ONE like unto the SON of MAN, clothed with a garment down to the foot, and girt about the paps with a golden girtle. His head and His hairs were WHITE like WOOL, as WHITE AS SNOW, and His eyes were as a flame of fire.
Notice the descriptions of the FATHER in [Daniel 7:9]...and the description of the SON OF GOD in [Revelations 1:13-14]...they are EXACTLY the SAME!!!!....LIKE FATHER LIKE SON!
Jesus Christ IS the MIRROR IMAGE of the invisible God...for it is written: "Who being the brightness of His glory, and the EXPRESS IMAGE of His person, and upholding all things by the word of His power, when He had BY HIMSELF purged our sins, SAT DOWN on the RIGHT HAND of the majesty on high." [Hebrews 1:3]. It is from this POSITION that He will force YOU to BOW before Him and confess Him as God Almighty...and then He will throw you into the PIT with ALL who DENY His DEITY and ETERNAL LORDSHIP.
Marchello
Originally posted by Capt_Fantastic
You know, you might be more credible is you ever posted something that showed you'd read a book other than the bible.and that's what so much of this comes down to in the long run. People who babble on and on about Jesus and post quotes from teh bible, or quotes from people interpreting the bible, never use other sources. You think your knowledge, your often times incorrect interpretation (I might say), of the bible is your only basis for argument. Pick up another book. Do you honetly think god would want teh unenlightened arguing his cause? If he exists in the manner in which you imply, do you think he'd want ten idiots arguing his case or 2 diversly educated people?
If god has a valid point in communicating with his own creation, then why can he not do it himself in a manner that is logical? You want to tell everyone that he is a being with no peer whose motivation is intentionally ambiguous and best left in the hands of the very people you yourself claim he sought to deny knowledge to in the first place?
If he didn't want man to eat from the tree of knowledge and gain enlightenment, they WHY CREATE THE TREE IN THE FIRST ****ING PLACE? As I've said before, he's like the stereotypical bad guy that explains the plot to the captured hero as a device. He makes zero sense. And if you respond by saying that he is beyond explaination, then why do you try to explain him to us ad nauseum? That would mean you haven't really got a ****ing clue either!
***Take two aspirin and get a good night's sleep. You'll feel better in the morning.
Marchello
Originally posted by Alliance
No. People who lack knowledge are those who think that circular logic makes a point.If god's word was so complete, why did it change, whiy did it appear in different texts across cultures?
So many gods and so many "one" gods.
Originally posted by Jury
Pitiful. I may suggest again that you read my post about that. Don't jump to foolish and misleading conclusion.
* is your post a law now? 🙄
* but to be courteous about the discussion, i'll quote your post...
Originally posted by Jury
Nope. The Name that God has given Jesus is already a "government" or "authority"... because this Name is, of course, "Above every name".I didn't say the government is "Mighty God", "Everlasting Father", etc... Isaiah 9:6 says the government that the "Child" will have bears a name [only one name, not names] or title "Wonderful, Councelor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace". We cannot simply chop off each name in this one name and apply to Jesus personally... Because the WHOLE NAME will be called to Him because of the GOVERMENT that will be placed upon His shoulder.
* take note of the underlined phrase... is it written in the Bible? nope... you just twisted Isaiah 9:6 blatantly here, my friend...
Originally posted by Jury
There is no problem if this "Government" is God... because the "Government" and "Authority" given to Christ is of God.
* now, here... you claimed there's no problem if the government is God... now, tell me... how many Gods do you believe in?
Originally posted by Jury
Have you ever tried to compare the verses rendered by other existing Bible versions? I know you do... can you post them here?
* why? is the version i gave not suitable to your argument?
Originally posted by Jury
Very kind of you for responding the request intended for Mr. Marchello.
* no problem...
Originally posted by Jury
So, does the verse say Jesus is God or Jesus is "found in the FORM [morphe] of God?"
* both... do we have a problem on the word "form"? 😕
Originally posted by sonnet
Actually people who lack knowledge include those who think that God does not exist and are looking for material proof and those who think Jesus is a fabel, or just a good man, or just a prophet.
God's word is complete because over all of time it still has the same message of Salvation through Jesus Christ. None of that has changed. The ultimate message that God wants us to know including the OT is still the same. People might have played with words or phrases but it still did not change the Truth about God and our Messiah, Jesus. And because you need salvation you can still pick up God's Word and it will tell you exactly what the apostles told the people then. Repent, acknowledge that you are a sinner and lost without God, accept Jesus as Savior ( and Son of God) who died on the cross for your sins and rose from the dead on the third day and is now in Heaven interceding for those who seek and believe in God.
***Thank you my dear Sister -in-Christ Jesus!
Soon our Beloved will return for us...for He NO LONGER hangs from a cross for us in His humiliation...but is RISEN FROM THE DEAD. When He RETURNS He will come as LORD OF LORDS and KING of KINGS [to the glory of God the Father]...and will CRUSH the necks of His ENEMIES [rejectors] and make them His FOOTSTOOL [Psalm 110:1].
Marchello
Originally posted by Marchello
***Thank you my dear Sister -in-Christ Jesus!Soon our Beloved will return for us...for He NO LONGER hangs from a cross for us in His humiliation...but is RISEN FROM THE DEAD. When He RETURNS He will come as LORD OF LORDS and KING of KINGS [to the glory of God the Father]...and will CRUSH the necks of His ENEMIES [rejectors] and make them His FOOTSTOOL [Psalm 110:1].
Marchello