Originally posted by Grand_Moff_GavWell here it is in a nut shell, and thank you for verifying what I've been trying to say all along.
What is being argued here?That the Bible says God created the Day and the Night on the first day?
Now, thats that settled.
This is why Bibles should really be kept in the hands of the Educated Priests...but thats just me baiting the Evans....
Originally posted by peejayd
* bause of different interpretations...* please do not instigate something like that... i am just saying what the Bible has...
* that's what wrong, people should not intepret, just read...
Originally posted by Da Pittman
So then you have read the original text of the Bible? If not then you have read a completely translated version which means you have not read the Bible but someone interpretation of the Bible from its original text. You still haven’t answered my question; do you believe the Universe was created in 7 days? Do you believe that the Universe is only a few thousand years old?What does 7 days mean, is it 7 days compared to Earth? What is 7 days compared to someone that doesn’t exist in time and space, the Earth and Sun wasn’t even crated yet so how can there be days? A day for the Earth is shorter than a day on Jupiter, so what day are they talking about?
Originally posted by peejayd
* of course... have you?* it's still as it was...
* II Peter 3:8... those are not literal 24-hour days... "with God, one day is like a thousand years, and a thousand years like one day"... the Bible can give its own meaning, so it's not right to give our own interpretation... just read, and the Bible will supply the answer...
* it's still different, ain't it?
* if you read, you can understand that the stories are not disjointed... there is a meaning, but it will not come from you or anybody else but from the Bible itself...
* and i officially cleared it off... 😉
Originally posted by Da Pittman
Small problem with that, one the book is written by man and man uses the term years and what makes up years? The answer would be days, hours, minutes and all that jive. So you are saying that God created the universe in 6 thousand years? How does man know how long a year is for God, did they look at God’s wrist watch? If they were not given an exact time by God then it is man trying to understand what God said so it is not the actual time but man giving his opinion on it. Again you say that I need to read the Bible, I have many times but it is your argument that is flawed and you keep using that same reason if someone doesn’t agree with you.
Originally posted by Da Pittman
Just as a side note anyway, a day is measured by the time it takes the planet to rotate on its axis and not 24 hours. That just happens to be a day for us, so is God on a planet?
Originally posted by Da Pittman
So if you have read the original text of the Bible then you must know that words translated from Hebrew to English that there are words in Hebrew that do not directly translate to English. So they must “interpret” the meaning of the word to an English equivalent.
Originally posted by peejayd
* the passage only means that God is not within the scope of time... one day or one thousand years or even eternity does not affect God...* if you read the 1st chapter of Genesis in the first place, you will understand that the 7 days of creation is not literal 24-hour day... Genesis 1:14-19, on the "4th day", that's the time God divided day from night & vice-versa...
* i expect someone who does not believe in the Bible to disagree... but i'm just trying to answer and clarify some things not explained by many religious denominations nowadays...
The basic argument is that Peejayd says that you should only read the Bible and not try to interpret the meanings and that if you just read the words that it will give you your answers. However he maid a claim which I showed him that the Bible does not support this and that he is himself interpreting the Bible to suit his own agenda and so it went on from ther.
Originally posted by Da Pittman
The basic argument is that Peejayd says that you should only read the Bible and not try to interpret the meanings and that if you just read the words that it will give you your answers. However he maid a claim which I showed him that the Bible does not support this and that he is himself interpreting the Bible to suit his own agenda and so it went on from ther.
I think I can sort of understand his point- that the Bible will through "Sacred Revelation" reveal its true meanings unto you, thus you should not try and impose your interpretations onto it. Of course that is complete nonsense, you have to interpret the Bible because it doesn't reveal itself to you why, even if it did then surely you have to interpret what is being reveled to you?
Also, his claim that the Bible will give him answers is sacrilegious.
Originally posted by Da Pittman
No, you are not reading it and you are making your own assumptions. Firsts day of creation Day and Night, please read your own Bible. You have told me to read it do you not read your own Bible? On the 4th day he made Day and Night as [b]WE know it, but Day and Night were all ready created. If he did not create the Day and the Night how could there be
"5: And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day. "You need to read this again
14: And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years:
15: And let them be for lights in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth: and it was so.
16: And God made two great lights; the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night: he made the stars also.
17: And God set them in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth,
18: And to rule over the day and over the night, and to divide the light from the darkness: and God saw that it was good.You wanted me to read your Bible I’ve told you that I have, I’m even using your own Bible in this debate and you can’t even comprehend its own text. You are such a hypocrite, you tell people not to interpret the Bible and read it as it is written by when you are faced with something the counters it you go right ahead and make your own interpretation. So my “friend” STFU [/B]
* i just don't know what on earth's up with that attitude? why so touchy? i believe we are sharing ideas but please do not be so touchy about the matter, i'm not forcing you to believe what i believe...
* next, you claim i assume and interpret what i read? let's look it up again... don't worry, i won't call you "a friend" if it bothers you big time, 😘
"And God said, Let there be light: and there was light.
And God saw the light, that it was good: and God divided the light from the darkness.
And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And there was evening and there was morning, one day."
Genesis 1:3-5
* 1st day, division of light and darkness...
"And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days and years:
And let them be for lights in the firmament of heaven to give light upon the earth: and it was so.
And God made the two great lights; the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night: he made the stars also.
And God set them in the firmament of heaven to give light upon the earth,
And to rule over the day and over the night, and to divide the light from the darkness: and God saw that it was good.
And there was evening and there was morning, a fourth day."
Genesis 1:14-19
* 4th day, division of day and night upon the earth...
* where's the assumption? it's not even my Bible, it's taken from American Standard Version and King James Version...
Originally posted by Grand_Moff_Gav
I think I can sort of understand his point- that the Bible will through "Sacred Revelation" reveal its true meanings unto you, thus you should not try and impose your interpretations onto it. Of course that is complete nonsense, you have to interpret the Bible because it doesn't reveal itself to you why, even if it did then surely you have to interpret what is being reveled to you?Also, his claim that the Bible will give him answers is sacrilegious.
* that's your opinion... you know why there are false religions nowadays? because of their own misinterpretations and pre-conceived ideas... my belief still stands that people should not interpret because they might be wrong... the Bible will answer on its own, if you have questions, the Bible will supply its answer, all we need to do is to read and seek the answer:
"Seek and read from the book of the LORD: Not one of these shall be missing; none shall be without her mate. For the mouth of the LORD has commanded, and his Spirit has gathered them."
Isaiah 34:16
Originally posted by peejayd
* that's your opinion... you know why there are false religions nowadays? because of their own misinterpretations and pre-conceived ideas... my belief still stands that people should not interpret because they might be wrong... the Bible will answer on its own, if you have questions, the Bible will supply its answer, all we need to do is to read and seek the answer:"[b]Seek and read from the book of the LORD
: Not one of these shall be missing; none shall be without her mate. For the mouth of the LORD has commanded, and his Spirit has gathered them."
Isaiah 34:16 [/B]
Indeed, all those false religions spring out of an abandoning the Church Christ founded. Its quite simple really. You interpret your own feelings and assume they are in some way inspired. Perhaps they are, but Im sure Jo Smith would say the same thing.
Again, sacrilege- the Bible is a book, its the Holy Spirit who will do the revealing to you, not the book. You can say well thats just technicalities but if you respect God you will attribute his acts appropriately.
Originally posted by Grand_Moff_Gav
Indeed, all those false religions spring out of an abandoning the Church Christ founded. Its quite simple really. You interpret your own feelings and assume they are in some way inspired. Perhaps they are, but Im sure Jo Smith would say the same thing.Again, sacrilege- the Bible is a book, its the Holy Spirit who will do the revealing to you, not the book. You can say well thats just technicalities but if you respect God you will attribute his acts appropriately.
If it is god who is instructing and not the book, then couldn't god instruct a person using any book?
Originally posted by peejaydOMG, I don't know how much clearer it needs to be for you??? The first day he created Day and Night, morning and evening so how is this hard for you to understand? On the forth day he “divided” the light INTO the darkness to show signs of the seasons and to show the passage of time for days and years but the day and nights were already created. Before the 4th day it was solid light and solid dark, the 4th day was to “refine” the day and night to as we know it.
* i just don't know what on earth's up with that attitude? why so touchy? i believe we are sharing ideas but please do not be so touchy about the matter, i'm not forcing you to believe what i believe...* next, you claim i assume and interpret what i read? let's look it up again... don't worry, i won't call you "a friend" if it bothers you big time, 😘
"And God said, Let there be light: and there was light.
And God saw the light, that it was good: and [b]God divided the light from the darkness.
And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And there was evening and there was morning, one day."
Genesis 1:3-5* 1st day, division of light and darkness...
"And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days and years:
And let them be for lights in the firmament of heaven to give light upon the earth: and it was so.
And God made the two great lights; the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night: he made the stars also.
And God set them in the firmament of heaven to give light upon the earth,
And to rule over the day and over the night, and to divide the light from the darkness: and God saw that it was good.
And there was evening and there was morning, a fourth day."
Genesis 1:14-19* 4th day, division of day and night upon the earth...
* where's the assumption? it's not even my Bible, it's taken from American Standard Version and King James Version...
[/B]
I take offense at your use of the word “friend” because of the sarcastic nature in which you use it.
Originally posted by Da Pittman
OMG, I don't know how much clearer it needs to be for you???
* you can tell it to yourself...
Originally posted by Da Pittman
The first day he created Day and Night, morning and evening so how is this hard for you to understand? On the forth day he “divided” the light INTO the darkness to show signs of the seasons and to show the passage of time for days and years but the day and nights were already created. Before the 4th day it was solid light and solid dark, the 4th day was to “refine” the day and night to as we know it.
* to make it more precise, what is the light created in 1st day? compared to the lights created SPECIFICALLY in the firmament of heaven in the 4th day? what was so difficult to understand here?
Originally posted by Da Pittman
I take offense at your use of the word “friend” because of the sarcastic nature in which you use it.
* it was used casually... you're just too touchy...
Originally posted by Grand_Moff_Gav
Exactly! Indeed, he can do it without a book!
* yeah, right 😐 with that notion, you can easily be fooled by false religious leaders... Jesus said:
" If any man will do his will, he shall know of the doctrine, whether it be of God, or whether I speak of myself.
He that speaketh of himself seeketh his own glory: but he that seeketh his glory that sent him, the same is true, and no unrighteousness is in him."
John 7:17-18
* know the doctrine whether it is of God... how would you know if it is of God? we have a basis --- the Bible, the word of God, the law of Christ, the Church of the apostles and Christians... if the doctrine of a religious denomination is not according to the Bible and still claims to be a Christian, it's a false religion...
Originally posted by peejayd
* yeah, right 😐 with that notion, you can easily be fooled by false religious leaders... Jesus said:" If any man will do his will, he shall know of [b]the doctrine, whether it be of God, or whether I speak of myself
.
He that speaketh of himself seeketh his own glory: but he that seeketh his glory that sent him, the same is true, and no unrighteousness is in him."
John 7:17-18* know the doctrine whether it is of God... how would you know if it is of God? we have a basis --- the Bible, the word of God, the law of Christ, the Church of the apostles and Christians... if the doctrine of a religious denomination is not according to the Bible and still claims to be a Christian, it's a false religion... [/B]
What if Satan wrote the Bible to lead people astray?
I suppose we've already moved past the original discussion of the Trinity that seemed to occasion this thread. Nonetheless, I'll give my take on the traditional Christian/Catholic understanding of the sacred mystery.
From eternity God the Father knows himself utterly. He "begets" a Word that expresses the totality of that self-possession. God's "self-expression" is the Son, distinct from God the Father, yet perfectly reflecting Him. The shared interiority between Father and Son is its own distinct person, God the Holy Spirit.
The mystery of the Trinity is the revelation that an intrinsic perfection of God's being is located within a communion of persons.
Originally posted by peejaydI give up, if you can not see common logic then it is pointless. You just want to twist it to make scene to what you want, you tell me to read the Bible and not to interpret it then tell me to do the opposite. If you are trying to have people see the "light and spread his word" you are doing a piss poor job of it, and as a side note I'm not touch I just don't like smartass comments for trolls. Hey but that is just me 😉
* you can tell it to yourself...* to make it more precise, what is the light created in 1st day? compared to the lights created [B]SPECIFICALLY
in the firmament of heaven in the 4th day? what was so difficult to understand here?* it was used casually... you're just too touchy...
* yeah, right 😐 with that notion, you can easily be fooled by false religious leaders... Jesus said:
" If any man will do his will, he shall know of the doctrine, whether it be of God, or whether I speak of myself.
He that speaketh of himself seeketh his own glory: but he that seeketh his glory that sent him, the same is true, and no unrighteousness is in him."
John 7:17-18* know the doctrine whether it is of God... how would you know if it is of God? we have a basis --- the Bible, the word of God, the law of Christ, the Church of the apostles and Christians... if the doctrine of a religious denomination is not according to the Bible and still claims to be a Christian, it's a false religion... [/B]
Originally posted by Da Pittman
I give up, if you can not see common logic then it is pointless.
* actually, i'm about to give up also, you just beat me to it... 😆
* i can see your point, can you see mine? common logic, huh? i don't know if you failed to understand my point or you're just too stubborn to admit you're wrong... there is a big difference about the division of light and darkness in the 1st and 4th day of creation...
Originally posted by Da Pittman
There is a problem with your assumption, on the first day God made the Day and Night, on the fourth day he divided the light to make the stars for the night and the light for the day. This was to separate the night from the day by giving light to the night so that there will be seasons and days but he already created the Day and the Night.
* that's because the division of light and darkness in the 1st is different from the one in the 4th... the difference is the one in bold and underlined phrases...
Originally posted by Da Pittman
You just want to twist it to make scene to what you want, you tell me to read the Bible and not to interpret it then tell me to do the opposite. If you are trying to have people see the "light and spread his word" you are doing a piss poor job of it,
* what twisting? i merely emphasized my point by underlining the phrases... and what i'm doing is far from spreading the word... if we cannot agree on these verses, how much more on the others? i'm not even forcing you to believe what i believe... i think this is just reading comprehension...
Originally posted by Da Pittman
and as a side note I'm not touch I just don't like smartass comments for trolls. Hey but that is just me 😉
* you distinguish a simple phrase as a "smartass comment"... how much more will you interpret things the bad way?
Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
What if Satan wrote the Bible to lead people astray?
* if --- and only if --- that is true, i'll be damned, 😆
* but as far as i know, the Bible contains truth - truth about life... and Satan is the father of lies... 😉
Originally posted by peejayd
* if --- and only if --- that is true, i'll be damned, 😆* but as far as i know, the Bible contains truth - truth about life... and Satan is the father of lies... 😉
But you don't actually know at all. You're just assuming that without any basis. That's a foolish way to gamble with your soul.
Originally posted by peejaydOne simple phrase???
* you distinguish a simple phrase as a "smartass comment"... how much more will you interpret things the bad way?
How about how you talk to everyone on this forum and over a long period of time.
I can see how you are trying to say that when God put the stars in the Night then that is when it becomes the "Night" however it would be the same thing as saying that it is not a Ford until you put the logo on it. You want to think that God created the Day and Night on the 4th day then by all means go for it however you would be wrong and not only me but others on this forum do not agree with you as well as anyone I've ever talked to, but hey you must know it all.
Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
But you don't actually know at all. You're just assuming that without any basis. That's a foolish way to gamble with your soul.
* that's what i get for answering a "what if" question, better keep my mouth shut next time 😛 for argument's sake, the most recent parts of the Bible were written by followers of Jesus, and i believe they are not of Satan in any way...
Originally posted by Da Pittman
One simple phrase???How about how you talk to everyone on this forum and over a long period of time.
* stop evading the issue... you became touchy when you read the phrase "my friend"... how horrible... 😘
Originally posted by Da Pittman
I can see how you are trying to say that when God put the stars in the Night then that is when it becomes the "Night" however it would be the same thing as saying that it is not a Ford until you put the logo on it. You want to think that God created the Day and Night on the 4th day then by all means go for it however you would be wrong and not only me but others on this forum do not agree with you as well as anyone I've ever talked to, but hey you must know it all.
* i thought you gave up? 😐 when did this became personal? well, in case you don't know - you and i don't know everything, we are in a debate forum, if we don't agree on something, it's alright... you don't have to spark, you don't have to be personal... it shows your immaturity... and finally, i don't remember you being the spokesperson of this entire forum, so you can't speak for them... i don't agree with your statements, yet i don't resort to what kind of crap you are spewing right now... 😉
Originally posted by peejayd😆 😆
* that's what i get for answering a "what if" question, better keep my mouth shut next time 😛 for argument's sake, the most recent parts of the Bible were written by followers of Jesus, and i believe they are not of Satan in any way...* stop evading the issue... you became touchy when you read the phrase "my friend"... how horrible... 😘
* i thought you gave up? 😐 when did this became personal? well, in case you don't know - you and i don't know everything, we are in a debate forum, if we don't agree on something, it's alright... you don't have to spark, you don't have to be personal... it shows your immaturity... and finally, i don't remember you being the spokesperson of this entire forum, so you can't speak for them... i don't agree with your statements, yet i don't resort to what kind of crap you are spewing right now... 😉
Me making it personal? You started that long before I did but hey who cares. I love you jumps in logic but that is you and I don't agree with your view and you have a right to them but when you tell someone that theirs are wrong you best believe that someone is going to pipe up.
Evading issues? When have I ever evaded an issue? You have done that more times than not but I do have to say that you do answer many of my questions and I will give you credit for that compared to some others on this forum.
Maybe there is just a communication problem between you and I, it would be the first time that this has happened. Maybe I just don't see your type of humor in your posts, not everyone has the same kind of humor or witting style. They way I read yours comes across as sarcastic and trying to belittle people. If that is not truly your intent then I do apologize but being on this forum dealing with troll and flamers you become a bit jaded.