Jesus Christ

Originally posted by dadudemon
If only every Christian were Mormon.

Here's how it works:

God is a completely separate physical being away from Jesus.

Jesus only existed as a spirit until he was born here on Earth.

Jesus was just as mortal as everyone else, meaning, he was subject to the vale, mortal, etc.

The Holy Spirit is part of the Godhead, but a separate being from God and Jesus Christ.

God is THE God. However, Jesus Christ has obtained Godhood by coming to Earth, receiving a body, dying, and being resurrected. Since he is perfect, his godhood was almost assured.

Again, three separate beings. NONE of this trinity B.S.

The Trinity idea is something a bunch of idiots thought of at the council of Nicea.

They didn't think to ask God if he was the same entity as Jesus. They thought it was better to debate it with each other for obvious political reasons. Retarded, really, that there are so many Christians out there who believe in the Trinity when, really, what they're believing in is a confusing, false, man made idea, of God. They don't even realize that the Trinity was decided on partially due to political motivation.

Are you Mormon?

I'm pretty sure 'monotheistical' isn't a word. Entirely too many usages of it in this thread.

Adjective form of monotheistic.

* if i may... i'll just insert some Biblical passages or comments that suits the post...

Originally posted by Sado22
[b]no disrespect intended to any christian here but this is how my conversations with christians on the subject goes:

christian: christianity is a monotheistic religion[/B]

* both the Father and Christ are Gods as their essence/nature/form/state of being:

"Have this mind in you, which was also in Christ Jesus:
Who, existing in the form of God, counted not the being on an equality with God a thing to be grasped,"
Philippians 2:5-6

Originally posted by Sado22
sado: okay
christian: so they are the father and son and holy spirit who are three manifestation of the same energy.
sado: didn't you say it was monotheistical
christian: yes but these are facets of the same god
sado: okay

* Father, Son and Holy Spirit are the Godhead... and They are not equal...

Originally posted by Sado22
christian: god is the father, jesus is the son and the holy spirit is the one responsible for miracles and all the other things that apostles and saints did

"And he called unto him his twelve disciples, and gave them authority over unclean spirits, to cast them out, and to heal all manner of disease and all manner of sickness."
Matthew 10:1

* the apostles were able to make miracles because of the authority Christ gave them...

"But the Comforter, even the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring to your remembrance all that I said unto you."
John 14:26

* this is one of the functions of the Holy Spirit...

Originally posted by Sado22
sado: so god died on the cross?
christian: no, jesus did
sado: but you said god is christ
christian: no, i said god and christ are two facets of the same god
sado: in other words they are just aspects of god and so god is as much jesus as holy spirit
christian: yes...no...i mean yes
sado: so then jesus is god and god died on the cross and came back as christ on easter
christian: yes, something like that. think of it as infinity divided by 3 is still infinity
sado: okay. so jesus is god in a way but he also prays to god
christian: yes
sado: so the father god is a different personality and is superior
christian: er...yes

"Ye heard how I said to you, I go away, and I come unto you. If ye loved me, ye would have rejoiced, because I go unto the Father: for the Father is greater than I."
John 14:28

* Christ admitted that the Father is greater than Him... in fact, the Father is greater than everyone else:

"My Father, who hath given them unto me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father's hand."
John 10:29

* of course, the Father is different from Christ... Christ is the Son of the Father/living God (Matthew 16:16)... and because Christ is the Son of the living God, it is very logical to conclude that Christ is also a God...

Originally posted by Sado22
sado: what about holy spirit? is it superior or inferior to either of them
christian: I need to look up on that

* hierarchy: Father, Son, Holy Spirit... basis?

"Verily, verily, I say unto you, a servant is not greater than his lord; neither one that is sent greater than he that sent him."
John 13:16

* and Christ sent the Holy Spirit to the apostles:

"But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall bear witness of me:"
John 15:26

Originally posted by Sado22
sado: my question is that if jesus prays to the father then father is superior and they are not equals but jesus is below god otherwise he wouldn't need to pray.
christian: err...i...think...its beause....

* Jesus praying to the Father does not mean that Jesus is not a God... in Philippians 2:6, Christ was in the form of God and is equal with God in form... both Their forms are form of God... it only happened that Jesus was manifested in the flesh when He came to the world:

"And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory."
I Timothy 3:16

* it was Jesus Christ who manifested in the flesh, and He is a God...

"For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily,"
Colossians 2:9

* even when Christ had manifested in the flesh, in Him dwells the fullness of Godhead...

Originally posted by Sado22
sado: and the jesus said elli elli lamasabachthani on the cross which means he was mortal, in pain and emotionally distraught at that point which is not a godly attribute but a very mortal one
christian: err...but its because jesus was a human manifestaton of god

* because Christ is a God manifested in the flesh...

"But emptied himself, taking the form of a servant, being made in the likeness of men;
And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, becoming obedient even unto death, yea, the death of the cross."
Philippians 2:7-8

* Christ was made in the likeness of men, found in fashion as a man... but that does not mean He was powerless... this is a huge sacrifice to save mankind from sin and iniquity... if Christ does not want to, He cannot be captured nor killed but He sacrificed His human body to save mankind:

"Jesus therefore, knowing all the things that were coming upon him, went forth, and saith unto them, Whom seek ye?
They answered him, Jesus of Nazareth. Jesus saith unto them, I am he. And Judas also, who betrayed him, was standing with them.
When therefore he said unto them, I am he, they went backward, and fell to the ground."
John 18:4-6

* with just the power of Christ's voice, the band of soldiers, officers from the chief priests and the Pharisees all went backward and fell to the ground...

Originally posted by Sado22
sado: but not equal to god otherwise it kinda kills the point of suffering for humanbeings
christian: i assume so
sado: okay so...wait. i'm confused. Can you start again?
christian: christianity is a monotheistical religion...

~Sado

* if it's about essence/form/nature/state of being, the Father and Christ are equal, Philippians 2:6... but when it comes to power and authority, the Father is greater than Christ, John 14:28...

Originally posted by dadudemon
If only every Christian were Mormon.

Here's how it works:

God is a completely separate physical being away from Jesus.

* God was NEVER EVER physical:

"God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship in spirit and truth."
John 4:24

Originally posted by dadudemon
Jesus only existed as a spirit until he was born here on Earth.

Jesus was just as mortal as everyone else, meaning, he was subject to the vale, mortal, etc.

* true, although He did not commit any sin...

"For we have not a high priest that cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but one that hath been in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin."
Hebrews 4:15

Originally posted by dadudemon
The Holy Spirit is part of the Godhead, but a separate being from God and Jesus Christ.

* the Holy Spirit is part of the Godhead, a DIFFERENT being from the Father and Christ... the Holy Spirit was never separate from the Father and Christ...

"And grieve not the Holy Spirit of God, in whom ye were sealed unto the day of redemption."
Ephesians 4:30

Originally posted by dadudemon
God is THE God. However, Jesus Christ has obtained Godhood by coming to Earth, receiving a body, dying, and being resurrected. Since he is perfect, his godhood was almost assured.

* the Son did not obtain "Godhood" only after coming to earth but even before the foundation of the world... the Father and the Son are with each other in the past eternity:

"And now, Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.
Father, I desire that they also whom thou hast given me be with me where I am, that they may behold my glory, which thou hast given me: for thou lovedst me before the foundation of the world."
John 17:5, 24

* and in that time, the Father called His Son -> O God:

"But of the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever; And the sceptre of uprightness is the sceptre of thy kingdom."
Hebrews 1:8

Originally posted by dadudemon
Again, three separate beings. NONE of this trinity B.S.

The Trinity idea is something a bunch of idiots thought of at the council of Nicea.

They didn't think to ask God if he was the same entity as Jesus. They thought it was better to debate it with each other for obvious political reasons. Retarded, really, that there are so many Christians out there who believe in the Trinity when, really, what they're believing in is a confusing, false, man made idea, of God. They don't even realize that the Trinity was decided on partially due to political motivation.

* i kinda agree... 🙂

If only every Christian were Mormon.

God is a completely separate physical being away from Jesus.
Jesus only existed as a spirit until he was born here on Earth.
Jesus was just as mortal as everyone else, meaning, he was subject to the vale, mortal, etc.
The Holy Spirit is part of the Godhead, but a separate being from God and Jesus Christ.
God is THE God. However, Jesus Christ has obtained Godhood by coming to Earth, receiving a body, dying, and being resurrected. Since he is perfect, his godhood was almost assured.
Again, three separate beings. NONE of this trinity B.S.
The Trinity idea is something a bunch of idiots thought of at the council of Nicea.

They didn't think to ask God if he was the same entity as Jesus. They thought it was better to debate it with each other for obvious political reasons. Retarded, really, that there are so many Christians out there who believe in the Trinity when, really, what they're believing in is a confusing, false, man made idea, of God. They don't even realize that the Trinity was decided on partially due to political motivation.

of course, the Father is different from Christ... Christ is the Son of the Father/living God (Matthew 16:16)... and because Christ is the Son of the living God, it is very logical to conclude that Christ is also a God...

"But the Comforter, even the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring to your remembrance all that I said unto you."
John 14:26
* this is one of the functions of the Holy Spirit...

But emptied himself, taking the form of a servant, being made in the likeness of men;
And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, becoming obedient even unto death, yea, the death of the cross."
Philippians 2:7-8

~Sado

God let a little baby be eaten by its mentally f***ed mother this week.

Why no miracle...?

Even taking into account that Deists might have a very slim possiblity of being right in some loose sense, to believe in an intervening god in this day and age of knowledge and science seems utterly insane, even if based just off of that one case.

So all this who's religion is best stuff (not just here, everywhere) is silly as they are all wrong as it was actually 'answer C': they're all man invented lies.

Not meant to for that to be as belligerant as it might sound, btw.

* i'm glad someone appreciates my post here... 🙂

Originally posted by Sado22
in my mind, however, i think the confusion comes from when people refer to christ as "god". to me, he's certianly divine by this logic, but not "god"

* if we are going to base from the Bible, Christ is really a God, a divine being... that is why He was referred to as a God who manifested in the flesh...

Originally posted by Sado22
and from the looks of it, the bible itself establishes that by explicitly stating through jesus' own mouth that god is greater than him and all else.

* which is true...

Originally posted by Sado22
so the problem for non-christians seems to stem from not the concept but the usage of the word "god" itself.
god is god, above and mightier than everything else and so the only "true god". jesus is more of a "lesser" god but divine nonetheless. when put that way it makes sense. its like god as a looser term.

* a lesser God because the Father is greater than Christ...

Originally posted by Sado22
thanx for clearing that out for me Peejayd, really appreciate it 🙂

* you're welcome...

Originally posted by Sado22
so the holy spirit is what does jesus work after his death?

Ah! okay now it all makes sense...though i'm stll confused about the holy spirit. thanx dude.

~Sado

* nope... Holy Spirit has different function... 🙂

peejayd, can you explan the purpose of holy spirit. that's the bit where i actually have a problem understanding.

God let a little baby be eaten by its mentally f***ed mother this week. Why no miracle...? Even taking into account that Deists might have a very slim possiblity of being right in some loose sense, to believe in an intervening god in this day and age of knowledge and science seems utterly insane, even if based just off of that one case.
So all this who's religion is best stuff (not just here, everywhere) is silly as they are all wrong as it was actually 'answer C': they're all man invented lies.

this will always be one of the most potent argument atheists/agnostics will have against theists. at the same time, its a little misdirected in my eyes. no offense or disrespect Sakako, but this question is similar to a christian or muslim walking up to you and saying (as they often do, which is dumb) "this is the book of god! do you still not believe?"
the problem is that its aimed wrong.

most theists believe that:
1) they are no one to queston god
2) that god is all-knowledgable and all-knowing
3) all wise and has laid the universe out for a grander purpose
4) we can never truly understand that purpose or explain it, but truth is always eventually revealed

so right off the bat, you're just asking someone a question that s/he has no hope of answering. its like being told that whatever your teacher teaches you in school is the truth and since you haven't developed enough critical thinking of your own to question it, you just accept it as the truth.

you see what the problem is? its faith. and faith is a metaphsyical/superstitious thing that has no room in logic or the physical world. scientists still continue to deny ESP and premonitions and 6th senses but at the same time there are enough cases of them to go around, have gone around and probably will continue to go around.

the moment faith comes in the picture, the argument is like playing hide and seek with somone who lives in the floor above you or like going through the spinning door in different directions. theists BELIEVE that god is just, its part of faith. they have faith that their god is just. atheists or agnostics don't have faith and that's why they can't see the point of having this faith when everything points to the contrary. stupid? perhaps. but to me it doesn't mean that either of them is stupid. they're just functioning on different wavelengths.

yes, religion is a man-made construct. yes, religion arguably began with astronomy. yes, men and women continue to use religion as an excuse to maime eachother and usurp power they have no right over. yes, theists can be real dicks with their "thou shalt not be saved" crap and need to stfu. yes, science has continuously proven religion wrong. yes, we should step out side the box and look for truth ourselves and find answer which we truthfully believe in.

but god (i believe) is a different story. as a theist, i have faith that there is a grander scheme and a higher purpose and that we don't necessary understand it now but we will eventually.

thnk about it: maybe a million years ago our neandrathal ancestors were pointing out the absurdity of finger prints, the moon and why ice melts in places where its needed more. they could point at it as an evidence of god's incompetence but several thousands years later, we get an understanding of it. i believe, more often than not, most people just take human intellect way too seriously. anyone who steps outside his house, picks up the New York bestsellers and reads it will know that human beings can never be taken seriously. the truth is martians came to earth, saw us, facepalmed themselves and left.

~Sado

There are clearly instances where the three entities appear to be separate, and on the other hand, where they seem be one (John 10:30).

The concept of the Trinity is a very difficult one to grasp. Anyone who claims to understand it fully is, frankly deluded. It is one of those things that a human mind cannot comprehend. We are limited by human logic and rationale, that is insufficient to understand divine things.

Perhaps it is one of those things that Job said...

“Surely I spoke of things I did not understand, things too wonderful for me to know.”

easy for us to grasp if we put our minds to it... ID. ego superego see?

Originally posted by Placidity
There are clearly instances where the three entities appear to be separate, and on the other hand, where they seem be one (John 10:30).

The concept of the Trinity is a very difficult one to grasp. Anyone who claims to understand it fully is, frankly deluded. It is one of those things that a human mind cannot comprehend. We are limited by human logic and rationale, that is insufficient to understand divine things.

Perhaps it is one of those things that Job said...

“Surely I spoke of things I did not understand, things too wonderful for me to know.”

You are so wrong. The trinity is easy to understand; it is mythology, and mythology does not have to be logical.

Originally posted by Sado22
peejayd, can you explan the purpose of holy spirit. that's the bit where i actually have a problem understanding.

* if the basis regarding Holy Spirit is the Bible, let me impart some of those things to you, my friend... who is the Holy Spirit? the Holy Spirit is a being who is part of the Godhead (not Trinity)... the Godhead is/are as follows:

"Go ye therefore, and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them into the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit:"
Matthew 28:19

"The grace of the Lord Jesus Christ, and the love of God, and the communion of the Holy Spirit, be with you all."
II Corinthians 13:14

* the Holy Spirit is a Spirit of God but is different from other Spirit/s of God:

"Furthermore, we had the fathers of our flesh to chasten us, and we gave them reverence: shall we not much rather be in subjection unto the Father of spirits, and live?"
Hebrews 12:9

"And out of the throne proceed lightnings and voices and thunders. And there was seven lamps of fire burning before the throne, which are the seven Spirits of God;"
Revelation 4:5

* there are many Spirits of God and the Holy Spirit is one of them... the only difference is that the Holy Spirit is part of the Godhead and came from the Father and is of the Father:

"And grieve not the Holy Spirit of God, in whom ye were sealed unto the day of redemption."
Ephesians 4:30

* hence, the Holy Spirit is a Spirit of God... but not all Spirits of God mentioned in the Bible is the Holy Spirit... now what is the purpose of the Holy Spirit? in creation, the Holy Spirit is already present:

"And the earth was waste and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep: and the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters."
Genesis 1:2

* the function of the Holy Spirit in the days of creation is this:

"Thou sendest forth thy Spirit, they are created; And thou renewest the face of the ground."
Psalms 104:30

* the purpose of the Holy Spirit to us, are these:

"But the Comforter, even the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring to your remembrance all that I said unto you."
John 14:26

"And in like manner the Spirit also helpeth our infirmity: for we know not how to pray as we ought; but the Spirit himself maketh intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered;"
Romans 8:26

* i hope that clears things up...

Originally posted by Sado22
if god is loving why allow all these murders to happen? if he's just why do scum like Bush and Bin Laden get to walk around without having a lightning bolt shove up their ass? if god is just why did a three week year old have to be maimed and eaten by his own mother this week?

* because we are humans, we perceive human death as a bad thing... but if we believe what the Bible teaches us, Jesus proved to us that our physical death is nothing compared what is in store for us after it... a three-week old baby died, and God allowed it to happen:

"Are not two sparrows sold for a penny? and not one of them shall fall on the ground without your Father:
Fear not therefore: ye are of more value than many sparrows."
Matthew 10:29, 31

* why? there are many reasons...

"But Jesus said, Suffer the little children, and forbid them not, to come unto me: for to such belongeth the kingdom of heaven."
Matthew 19:14

"The righteous perisheth, and no man layeth it to heart; and merciful men are taken away, none considering that the righteous is taken away from the evil to come."
Isaiah 57:1

* look what happened to Abraham? he nearly killed his son, Isaac just to obey God's orders, but why? because Abraham has faith in God... what is his faith with reagrd to sacrificing Isaac?

"By faith Abraham, being tried, offered up Isaac: yea, he that had gladly received the promises was offering up his only begotten son;
Even he to whom it was said, In Isaac shall thy seed be called:
Accounting that God is able to raise up, even from the dead; from whence he did also in a figure receive him back."
Hebrews 11:17-19

* scums continue to live luxuriously? you see, God is just, and He is also merciful... God wants all people to be saved:

"This is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour;
Who would have all men to be saved, and come to the knowledge of the truth."
I Timothy 2:3-4

* yes, scums like those people you mentioned, God wants all of us to be saved... God lets them live to give them some more chances or opportunities to repent...

"And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also, according to the wisdom given to him, wrote unto you;"
II Peter 3:15

* God is patiently waiting for those people to repent... God gives them ample time to reform and not to continue their evil works:

"So then, as we have opportunity, let us work that which is good toward all men, and especially toward them that are of the household of the faith."
Galatians 6:10

* God gives mercy... but God is also just:

"He that is unrighteous, let him do unrighteousness still: and he that is filthy, let him be made filthy still: and he that is righteous, let him do righteousness still: and he that is holy, let him be made holy still."
Revelation 22:11

* God gave them a chance but they blew it, so what will happen?

"Because I have called and you refused, I have stretched out my hand and no one regarded,
Because you disdained all my counsel, And would have none of my rebuke,
I also will laugh at your calamity; I will mock when your terror comes,
When your terror comes like a storm, And your destruction comes like a whirlwind, When distress and anguish come upon you.
Then they will call on me, but I will not answer; They will seek me diligently, but they will not find me.
Because they hated knowledge, And did not choose the fear of the Lord,
They would have none of my counsel, And despised my every rebuke."
Proverbs 1:24-30

* don't worry, in the final day, all will be subjected to God's fair and merciful judgment... those who deserves to go to heaven will go to heaven and those who deserve to go to hell will go to hell... God will not put any evil in heaven after that:

"And there shall in no wise enter into it anything unclean, or he that maketh an abomination and a lie: but only they that are written in the Lamb's book of life."
Revelation 21:27

* let us all remember how good God is:

"For the Lord is good; His mercy is everlasting, And His truth endures to all generations."
Psalms 100:5

Originally posted by Placidity
There are clearly instances where the three entities appear to be separate, and on the other hand, where they seem be one (John 10:30).

The concept of the Trinity is a very difficult one to grasp. Anyone who claims to understand it fully is, frankly deluded. It is one of those things that a human mind cannot comprehend. We are limited by human logic and rationale, that is insufficient to understand divine things.

Perhaps it is one of those things that Job said...

“Surely I spoke of things I did not understand, things too wonderful for me to know.”

* the concept of the Trinity is easy to understand... and the doctrine of the Trinity is wrong... it implies that the Father, Son and Holy Spirit are all equal but it is stated in the Bible that the Father is greater than Christ...

Originally posted by dadudemon
If only every Christian were Mormon.

@ peejayd

Are you a Roman Catholic, or a Seventh Day Adventist?

Originally posted by occultdestroyer
Good thing not all of them are Mor(m)ons.

* 😆

Originally posted by occultdestroyer
@ peejayd

Are you a Roman Catholic, or a Seventh Day Adventist?

* member of the Church of God International... 🙂

@Peejayd, i'm a muslim. although there are some differences between the bible and koran at the end of the day both speak of god as just, merciful and all-knowing. i wasn't asking those questions as a challenge to theists but voicing the questions atheists have always asked. i beleive god is just, all-wise, merciful and all-knowing and that's why some of his works don't make sense to us...which leads us to question him. but quesationing him is not our place because we are not just, merciful or even close to all-knowing

~Sado

Originally posted by Sado22
@Peejayd, i'm a muslim.

* oh? sorry, i didn't know... 😮

Originally posted by Sado22
although there are some differences between the bible and koran at the end of the day both speak of god as just, merciful and all-knowing. i wasn't asking those questions as a challenge to theists but voicing the questions atheists have always asked. i beleive god is just, all-wise, merciful and all-knowing and that's why some of his works don't make sense to us...which leads us to question him. but quesationing him is not our place because we are not just, merciful or even close to all-knowing

~Sado

* that's nice, 🙂

Originally posted by Sado22
@Peejayd, i'm a muslim. although there are some differences between the bible and koran at the end of the day both speak of god as just, merciful and all-knowing. i wasn't asking those questions as a challenge to theists but voicing the questions atheists have always asked. i beleive god is just, all-wise, merciful and all-knowing and that's why some of his works don't make sense to us...which leads us to question him. but quesationing him is not our place because we are not just, merciful or even close to all-knowing

~Sado

Just throwing it out there 😄

@peejayd

What's up, fellow Kababayan!

Originally posted by occultdestroyer
@peejayd

What's up, fellow Kababayan!

* mabuhay, kapatid! 🙂

* nice to meet you here... how did you know? 😛

* i was also baptized catholic 3 months after i was born... 18 years later, i converted to Church of God International... 😄

Originally posted by occultdestroyer
Until there is evidence whether God does or does not exist, I will remain a skeptic.

* allow me give you a Bible verse about that...

"The heavens declare the glory of God; And the firmament showeth his handiwork."
Psalms 19:1

* no one can create the heavens and the firmament above us... it only shows that there is Someone much greater than us who created it... 🙂

deep down, 95% of the human race is atheist...that's why go around killing people in the name of god 😂

Originally posted by Sado22
deep down, 95% of the human race is atheist...that's why go around killing people in the name of god 😂

Do you support the Ayatollah and terrorist groups like Al-Qaeda and Taliban?

If you do, then I see no point why I should even converse with you.

Originally posted by peejayd

* nice to meet you here... how did you know? 😛

I see you post sometimes in the Boxing Thread in the Sports Forum, and the Filipino Movies thread in the Movies Forum.

Churh of God International? Is that Ang Dating Daan (The Old Path)?