Jesus Christ

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
If god can forgive, then why did Jesus die on the cross? According to Christian mythology, or at least Christian mythology that I am aware of, Jesus was sacrificed to atone for the sin that Adam made. The reason for that was because god could not forgive.

* you puzzled me at first... it may seem that you might have a valid point, but your argument is twisted with regard to the Christian doctrine... let me give you some...

* God is justice, you committed a grave sin, you die:

"You shall not consent to him or listen to him, nor shall your eye pity him, nor shall you spare him or conceal him;
But you shall surely kill him; your hand shall be first against him to put him to death, and afterward the hand of all the people.
And you shall stone him with stones until he dies, because he sought to entice you away from the LORD your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, from the house of bondage."
Deuteronomy 13:8-10

* this law from the time of Moses was brought forth to strike fear in the hearts of people and for them not to sin against God... but even with this law, the people, particularly the Israelites, still committed grave sins against God... God just wants people to repent and they shall be forgiven just like the people from Nineveh who were candidates from destruction, but God - still pity them and wants them to be saved - sent prophet Jonah to preach in Nineveh and when the whole city of Nineveh repented, God forgave and spared them all...

* the same thing happened with Jesus... people, because of wickedness and evil, are candidates of destruction... God already sent many prophets but people still continues to be evil... a last ditch effort for God to save the people is for His own begotten Son to be sacrificed from all the sins of humanity, an innocent blood as a ransom in place for every soul to be saved...

"For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior,
Who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth.
For there is one God and one Mediator between God and men, the Man Christ Jesus,
Who gave Himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time,"
I Timothy 2:3-6

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
Jesus was sacrificed to atone for the sin that Adam made.

* Jesus sacrificed to atone the sins of all who would believe and repent... the sin of Adam is just his own, it cannot be inherited, it cannot be passed on...

"The soul who sins shall die. The son shall not bear the guilt of the father, nor the father bear the guilt of the son. The righteousness of the righteous shall be upon himself, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon himself."
Ezekiel 18:20

* just as the righteousness of a person cannot be inherited or passed on:

"Even though Noah, Daniel, and Job were in it, as I live, says the Lord God, they would deliver neither son nor daughter; they would deliver only themselves by their righteousness."
Ezekiel 14:20

* as for Adam, he committed and never repented:

"But they like Adam have transgressed the covenant: there have they dealt treacherously against me."
Hosea 6:7

* he would be forgiven if he only repented...

Originally posted by peejayd
* you puzzled me at first... it may seem that you might have a valid point, but your argument is twisted with regard to the Christian doctrine... let me give you some...

* God is justice, you committed a grave sin, you die:

"You shall not consent to him or listen to him, nor shall your eye pity him, nor shall you spare him or conceal him;
But [b]you shall surely kill him; your hand shall be first against him to put him to death, and afterward the hand of all the people.
And you shall stone him with stones until he dies, because he sought to entice you away from the LORD your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, from the house of bondage."
Deuteronomy 13:8-10

* this law from the time of Moses was brought forth to strike fear in the hearts of people and for them not to sin against God... but even with this law, the people, particularly the Israelites, still committed grave sins against God... God just wants people to repent and they shall be forgiven just like the people from Nineveh who were candidates from destruction, but God - still pity them and wants them to be saved - sent prophet Jonah to preach in Nineveh and when the whole city of Nineveh repented, God forgave and spared them all...

* the same thing happened with Jesus... people, because of wickedness and evil, are candidates of destruction... God already sent many prophets but people still continues to be evil... a last ditch effort for God to save the people is for His own begotten Son to be sacrificed from all the sins of humanity, an innocent blood as a ransom in place for every soul to be saved...

"For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior,
Who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth.
For there is one God and one Mediator between God and men, the Man Christ Jesus,
Who gave Himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time,"
I Timothy 2:3-6

* Jesus sacrificed to atone the sins of all who would believe and repent... the sin of Adam is just his own, it cannot be inherited, it cannot be passed on...

"The soul who sins shall die. The son shall not bear the guilt of the father, nor the father bear the guilt of the son. The righteousness of the righteous shall be upon himself, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon himself."
Ezekiel 18:20

* just as the righteousness of a person cannot be inherited or passed on:

"Even though Noah, Daniel, and Job were in it, as I live, says the Lord God, they would deliver neither son nor daughter; they would deliver only themselves by their righteousness."
Ezekiel 14:20

* as for Adam, he committed and never repented:

"But they like Adam have transgressed the covenant: there have they dealt treacherously against me."
Hosea 6:7

* he would be forgiven if he only repented... [/B]

You have a strange mythology for a Christian. I don't mean that in a negative way.

* i just corrected the Christian doctrine you were saying as "mythology"... Jesus sacrificed to atone the sins of all who would believe and repent... not the sin of Adam...

Pic:

Originally posted by peejayd
* i just corrected the Christian doctrine you were saying as "mythology"... Jesus sacrificed to atone the sins of all who would believe and repent... not the sin of Adam...

To me, it's all mythology. Please don't be offended.

* i'm not...

just a question... since Jesus is proven to be historically real anyway.. and He's not God, then what is he? I mean, a good teacher, preacher, prophet, etc.?

please no one answer "then He's just a man". Because... like.. hypothetically.. that's already a given.

probably already asked, but meh. I just wanna know.

Originally posted by Jaeh.is.Awesome
just a question... since Jesus is proven to be historically real anyway.. and He's not God, then what is he? I mean, a good teacher, preacher, prophet, etc.?

please no one answer "then He's just a man". Because... like.. hypothetically.. that's already a given.

probably already asked, but meh. I just wanna know.

Jesus Christ is NOT proven to exist historically. And there is definitely zero proof that he did anything that's said in the bible even if he did exist.

He might have just been one of many prophet/messiah people roaming the earth that time. Perhaps a con-man, perhaps he even had some good teachings. We don't know anything about him as a historical figure though.

If he was as he is described in the bible just human not divine (and there is absolutey no proof that he was, zero) then I personally think he had some good teachings, but he also had some very bad ones and in caused one of the worst and most harmful movements in history.

Originally posted by Bardock42
Jesus Christ is NOT proven to exist historically. And there is definitely zero proof that he did anything that's said in the bible even if he did exist.

He might have just been one of many propher/messiah people roaming the earth that time. Perhaps a con-man, perhaps he even had some good teachings. We don't know anything about him as a historical figure though.

If he was as he is described in the bible just human not divine (and there is absolutey no proof that he was, zero) then I personally think he had some good teachings, but he also had some very bad ones and in caused one of the worst and most harmful movements in history.

well, that was fail. 😂 I watched a documentary on discovery channel (or was it history channel or something) once about him. And there are a lot of proofs i heard from diff. people (please don't ask me to quote, I can't.) so... yeah. xD but anyway, I still wanted to know what people thought. guess I kinda dug myself into that one. this is why research is important, haha.

thanks for the feedback. xD

Originally posted by Jaeh.is.Awesome
just a question... since Jesus is proven to be historically real anyway.. and He's not God, then what is he? I mean, a good teacher, preacher, prophet, etc.?

please no one answer "then He's just a man". Because... like.. hypothetically.. that's already a given.

probably already asked, but meh. I just wanna know.

* there are several beliefs about His state of being... several people debates if He's a God or a mere mortal... even the Jews in the Bible believe that He was human:

"The Jews answered Him, saying, For a good work we do not stone You, but for blasphemy, and because You, being a Man, make Yourself God."
John 10:33

* if the basis of His state of being is the Bible, then i must say that Christ is a God, not human... He is a God but He is not the Father because He is the Son... the term, "God" is not only for the Father but also for Christ...

* holy people in the Bible clearly rejects worship, but the Father even orders His angels to worship Christ:

"But when He again brings the firstborn into the world, He says: Let all the angels of God worship Him."
Hebrews 1:6

* and the Father even called His Son as a God:

"But to the Son He says: Your throne, O God, is forever and ever; A scepter of righteousness is the scepter of Your kingdom."
Hebrews 1:8

* the Son is also the Word who was with the Father in the beginning:

"In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
He was in the beginning with God."
John 1:1-2

* He is also the Wisdom who existed before the foundation of the world:

"But we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery, the hidden wisdom which God ordained before the ages for our glory,
Which none of the rulers of this age knew; for had they known, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory."
I Corinthians 2:7-8

* how did it happened that there was a human aspect in Christ?

"And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory."
I Timothy 3:16

"Who, being in the form of God, did not consider it robbery to be equal with God,
But made Himself of no reputation, taking the form of a bondservant, and coming in the likeness of men.
And being found in appearance as a man, He humbled Himself and became obedient to the point of death, even the death of the cross."
Philippians 2:6-8

* when He came to the world, Christ, who was in the form of God, was manifested in the flesh, took the form and likeness of human... and when His human body died in the cross, Christ when up in heaven as a spirit He once was like before was manifested in the flesh:

"And so it is written, The first man Adam became a living being. The last Adam became a life-giving spirit."
I Corinthians 15:45

Originally posted by Jaeh.is.Awesome
just a question... since Jesus is proven to be historically real anyway.. and He's not God, then what is he?

* in the Bible, Christ is a God manifested in the flesh...

Originally posted by Jaeh.is.Awesome
I mean, a good teacher, preacher, prophet, etc.?

* Jesus Christ is the manifold wisdom of God... He is a teacher/master (Jude 4), a preacher (Luke 4:18), a prophet (Matthew 21:11)... He is also a high priest and an apostle of God:

"Therefore, holy brethren, partakers of the heavenly calling, consider the Apostle and High Priest of our confession, Christ Jesus,"
Hebrews 3:1

* He is a Lord (I Corinthians 8:6), a Savior (Ephesians 5:23) and a great God (Titus 2:13)... 🙂

Originally posted by Jaeh.is.Awesome
probably already asked, but meh. I just wanna know.

* i hope i answered your questions... 🙂

The only questions answered were your own.

Originally posted by Ordo
The only questions answered were your own.

* what on earth is your problem?

Originally posted by Jaeh.is.Awesome
just a question... since Jesus is proven to be historically real anyway.. and He's not God, then what is he? I mean, a good teacher, preacher, prophet, etc.?

please no one answer "then He's just a man". Because... like.. hypothetically.. that's already a given.

probably already asked, but meh. I just wanna know.

In Buddhism he would be know as a Bodhisattva.

.
Mahayana Buddhism, ..., regards the Bodhisattva as a person who already has a considerable degree of enlightenment and seeks to use their wisdom to help other human beings to become liberated themselves. In this understanding of the word the Bodhisattva is an already wise person who uses skillful means to lead others to see the benefits of virtue and the cultivation of wisdom.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bodhisattva

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
In Buddhism he would be know as a Bodhisattva.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bodhisattva

I remember studying about that in Asian History class. I must say, its a very interesting concept/belief.. thought... (whatever it's called, sorry)... 🙂

Originally posted by Ordo
The only questions answered were your own.

How about you, Ordo?

Originally posted by peejayd
* what on earth is your problem?

play nice, dude. 😛 and thanks for the extensive feedback. 🙂

Originally posted by peejayd
* what on earth is your problem?

Your "proofs" dont prove anything.

Originally posted by Jaeh.is.Awesome
How about you, Ordo?

Hm?

Originally posted by Ordo
Your "proofs" dont prove anything.

Hm?

who's Jesus for you? A liar, lunatic, good teacher, prophet, mental dude, etc.

oh lol.

Jesus is a concept. He might have been a god based on an actual person. At this time, there is a lot of stuff with the change of the astrological age, divine humans were a very popular concept, virgin births, stars in the sky, deaths and 3 day resurrections were as pervasive as iPods. Augustus, Rome, Egypt...all over the mediterranean cults adapted these principles. Jesus was just the god of one of these cults that was very persistant and became a populist movement within disenfranchised sections of society at the time.

Since then, his concept has change dramatically (he suddenly became divine, part of a triumverant, was smashed in with the Judean god). In modern terms, I think if you just look at Jesus, ignoring all the BS that was written about him, he is more of an ideal, a this-is-how-you-should-live concept. I'd personally equate "him" to more of a Siddartha type figure, though there are obvious differences between them and VAST differences between how the religions founded after them treat them.

Originally posted by Ordo
oh lol.

Jesus is a concept. He might have been a god based on an actual person. At this time, there is a lot of stuff with the change of the astrological age, divine humans were a very popular concept, virgin births, stars in the sky, deaths and 3 day resurrections were as pervasive as iPods. Augustus, Rome, Egypt...all over the mediterranean cults adapted these principles. Jesus was just the god of one of these cults that was very persistant and became a populist movement within disenfranchised sections of society at the time.

Since then, his concept has change dramatically (he suddenly became divine, part of a triumverant, was smashed in with the Judean god). In modern terms, I think if you just look at Jesus, ignoring all the BS that was written about him, he is more of an ideal, a this-is-how-you-should-live concept. I'd personally equate "him" to more of a Siddartha type figure, though there are obvious differences between them and VAST differences between how the religions founded after them treat them.

Wow. That's very, very interesting! I've never heard that side before. Jesus as a concept... hmm

well, if He is a concept, the imagination who thought Him up is astounding. He is the perfect guy, so...

Originally posted by Ordo
Your "proofs" dont prove anything.

* i was not talking to you, in the first place... can't you see whose post i quoted? 🙄 i don't have to prove anything to you because we are not discussing anything... 🙄