Jesus Christ

Like Osiris and Dionysus?......Same kinda stories, but much older.......Christianity borrowed from older sources.

Originally posted by KPrince
I agree with you Jury, yes Jesus is the Son and not the Father, but He is God as His Father is God. The Father is the Supreme God with Christ under Him as His Son. John 1:1-14 explains this.

Yet, you think that the Son is God and the Father is God. So, do we have two Gods: the Son and the Father? I don't think so. The Bible doesn't think so.

And, oh... John 1:1-14 doesn't say that. John 1:1-14 is all about the "word" [logos] of God in the beginning of everything.

🙂

Originally posted by Jury
The Son is God, the Father is God... I disagree. The Son is not the Father right?... They are two distinct persons, right?

Yet, you think that the Son is God and the Father is God. So, do we have two Gods: the Son and the Father? I don't think so. The Bible doesn't think so.

And, oh... John 1:1-14 doesn't say that. John 1:1-14 is all about the "word" [logos] of God in the beginning of everything.

🙂

Actually, it does. If you read verse 14, you will see that John 1:1-13 does describe Jesus as the Word and John 1:14 describes Him as the Son of God. Notice the word "begotten".

Originally posted by Jury
The Son is God, the Father is God... I disagree. The Son is not the Father right?... They are two distinct persons, right?

Yet, you think that the Son is God and the Father is God. So, do we have two Gods: the Son and the Father? I don't think so. The Bible doesn't think so.
🙂

Actually yes. There are two Gods, but only ONE is the Supreme God, and that is the Father. And yes, the Bible confirms this.

I disagree. The Bible says, there is ONLY ONE TRUE GOD. The Father. Other than Him, there is no other.

"Two Gods?" - UNBIBLICAL and UNCHRISTIAN.

"Two Gods?" - POLYTHEISM and PAGAN

🙂

Originally posted by KPrince
Actually, it does. If you read verse 14, you will see that John 1:1-13 does describe Jesus as the Word and John 1:14 describes Him as the Son of God. Notice the word "begotten".

Haven't you noticed why did John use the word "logos" instead of "Jesus" or "Christ" or "Messiah" if he trully means Jesus Christ Himself upon referring to the word "logos"? May I ask you then: How many times did the word "logos" appear in the original manuscripts of the New Testament? Do they all refer to "Jesus Christ" alone?

Just asking

🙂

Originally posted by Son of Man
Many people dont belive Jesus is God (by nature). What do you think.

During Christ's time, there were people who taught that Jesus is a divine being, therefore God, who possessed an imaginary body. They called themselves Docetists. At that time, many believers were confused. But the Apostles never failed to warn the early Christians not to believe in the idea that Jesus is a divine being and doesn't have body like ours - in some other way, not human.

When the Apostles were no longer existed, Pagans persecuted Christians that they worship no God but a dead Man.

So the Church Fathers, who took over the ministry of the Church, formulated the idea that Christ is not just a Man... but God.

From then on, controversy arises. Members who didn't want to folow the Church's teaching regarding Christ's alleged divinity were killed, beheaded, and turtured. Others were excommunicated. The scriptures were kept. Some were stolen. Some were burned... to hide the TRUTH the Bible was stating that : JESUS CHRIST is not claiming to be God Himself.

But the TRUTH still prevails against this kind of deception:

"Father, the hour has come.
Glorify your Son so that the Son may glorify You.
...and this is eternal life, that they may know You,
the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom you have sent."
John 17:1-3

Originally posted by Jury
But it is not the same as Jesus Himself was the "word" [logos] who was "made flesh". 🙂

Haven't you noticed why did John use the word "logos" instead of "Jesus" or "Christ" or "Messiah" if he trully means Jesus Christ Himself upon referring to the word "logos"? May I ask you then: [b]How many times did the word "logos" appear in the original manuscripts of the New Testament? Do they all refer to "Jesus Christ" alone?

Just asking

🙂 [/B]

It may seem unbelievable, but it is true Jury, notice John 8:53-59,
"Art thou greater than our father Abraham, which is dead? and the prophets are dead: whom makest thou thyself?
Jesus answered, If I honour myself, my honour is nothing: it is my Father that honoureth me; of whom ye say, that he is your God:
Yet ye have not known him; but I know him: and if I should say, I know him not, I shall be a liar like unto you: but I know him, and keep his saying.
Your father Abraham rejoiced to see my day: and he saw it, and was glad.
Then said the Jews unto him, Thou art not yet fifty years old, and hast thou seen Abraham?
Jesus said unto them, Verily,verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.
Then took they up stones to cast at him: but Jesus hid himself, and went out of the temple, going through the midst of them, and so passed by." John 8:53-59

Even the Jews thought it was unbelievable, they tried to stone Him for saying it Himself.

Notice where Jesus says, "Before Abraham was, I Am." That is John 8:58

So, what is the meaning of that? What was Jesus Christ trying to say when He said: "Before Abraham was, I AM."? Does that prove He is God Himself? Does that prove He Himself was literally with God before Abraham was born?

So, do you really believe that there are TWO Gods? The Son and the Father? If you do, so which one is true God, and which one is "false" God?

🙂

Originally posted by KPrince
Actually yes. There are two Gods, but only ONE is the Supreme God, and that is the Father. And yes, the Bible confirms this.

Originally posted by Jury
So, what is the meaning of that? What was Jesus Christ trying to say when He said: "Before Abraham was, I AM."? Does that prove He is God Himself? Does that prove He Himself was literally with God before Abraham was born?

So, do you really believe that there are TWO Gods? The Son and the Father? If you do, so which one is true God, and which one is "false" God?

🙂

I believe there are two Gods. One is the Supreme Father, over all things. The other is the Word, who became flesh as Jesus Christ, and was begotten as the Son of the Father. Neither of the two are false, both are true, but only one is the Supreme God whom is to be worship, and that is the Father. Which is why we pray to the Father, and ask all things in Jesus' Name.

^ yeah.yeah....typical doctrine..

Originally posted by KPrince
I believe there are two Gods. One is the Supreme Father, over all things. The other is the Word, who became flesh as Jesus Christ, and was begotten as the Son of the Father. Neither of the two are false, both are true, but only one is the Supreme God whom is to be worship, and that is the Father. Which is why we pray to the Father, and ask all things in Jesus' Name.

Would that mean that Jesus Himself was wrong when He proclaimed that "the Father is the ONLY TRUE GOD"?

As to the "word" [logos] you haven't answered my question yet. You read John 1:1-14 and came up to a conclusion that the "word" [logos] was as God who literally became flesh as Jesus Christ... even the verses are not saying so. That's why I disagreed and asked you: How many time did the word "logos" appear in the original manuscripts of the New Testament? Do they all refer to "Jesus Christ" Himself?

It's a relevant question to answer and that could help you prove or disprove your conclusion that the "logos" was a God "who" became a literal flesh as Jesus Christ.

🙂

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
If it walks like duck and quacks like a duck in must be a cow. That seems to be the line of logic you are using.

Originally posted by Son of Man
Jesus never claimed to be divine! 😂
Man you are funny.
Jesus was claiming to be the deliverer of the Israelites from Egypt. He was the “I Am” who talked with Moses in Exodus chap.4 at the burning bush. This is enhanced when we remember his previous discussion with them in John 5:17-19 Jesus makes some statements that the Pharisees cannot stand, “But Jesus answered them, My Father worketh hitherto, and I work. Therefore the Jews sought the more to kill him, because he not only had broken the Sabbath, but said also that God was his Father,
making himself equal with God.

Also, John 17:5 reads, “And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.” Jesus has a divine glory before the world even existed. The only way such a glory could be ascribed to Jesus if he was divine.

“Not that any man hath seen the Father, save he which is of God, he hath seen the Father.” (John 6:46) This means that Jesus Christ was aware of His divine nature as present with the Father before time was created.
John 14:1 says, “Let not your heart be troubled: ye believe in God, believe also in me.” Jesus sets Hiimself as equal with The Father. The safme belief that people have in God should also be given to Him. Believing in God is believing in Christ because they are the same.

"Having the nature of or being a deity." Is the defintion of divine.
Jesus qulifies.

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
The show did not say that is was gnostic and they did tell about gnostic text. I think (and I don't know) that it was just a book that someone wrote to try and fill in the missing years.

If what you say in the P.S. is true then most Christians are not Christians.

Originally posted by debbiejo
OH..we're all sons....Just like when Jesus said when you see me you see god....Well, when you see me you see god too....We are all part of what it is...

Originally posted by Jury
You said both [the Father and the Son] are "true Gods" [because you said "two", so Gods]...

As to the "word" [logos] you haven't answered my question yet. You read John 1:1-14 and came up to a conclusion that the "word" [logos] was as God who literally became flesh as Jesus Christ... even the verses are not saying so. That's why I disagreed and asked you: [b]How many time did the word "logos" appear in the original manuscripts of the New Testament? Do they all refer to "Jesus Christ" Himself?

It's a relevant question to answer and that could help you prove or disprove your conclusion that the "logos" was a God "who" became a literal flesh as Jesus Christ.

🙂 [/B]

The word "logos" is only found in the book of John.

Would that mean that Jesus Himself was wrong when He proclaimed that "the Father is the ONLY TRUE GOD"?
No. The Father is the Supreme God, and Jesus is under His authority.

"even the verses are not saying so." quoted by Jury
The verses seem pretty self-explanatory, show me, in John 1 where you see inconsistencies in my argument of Jesus being the Word.
Also, show me in the New Testament where Jesus contradicts my argument. That way I can see where you find disagreement.