Re: Re: Is God and Jesus the same person?
Originally posted by theReject
According to my religion, they're the same.
God has three personalities- God Father, God Son(often known as Jesus), and God the Holy Ghost(known as the Holy Spirit).But it's all one God just three different personalities- it's called the trinity.
Thats called modeism, and it has long been discounted by the Church as a whole.
Well... Still, nobody could prove BIBLICALLY that Jesus is the same true God.
According to the Bible:
There is only one God --- and that is the Father
God is not a man --- A man can never be God
Jesus Christ is a man --- Jesus Christ is not God
Jesus Christ is the Son of God --- And God is Christ's Father
These statements remain true and never been contradictory to the Bible, which eternally proclaims that
"The only true God is the Father who is in heaven."
According to the Trinity:
There is one God.
The Father is God.
The Son Jesus Christ is God.
The Holy Spirit is God.
Yet the three are considered as one true God.
Biblical? no2 No.
Why? According to the Bible, the Father is the only true God -- Not the Son -- Not the Holy Spirit.
According to the Hypostatic Union theory:
There is one God.
God takes a human form and becomes Jesus Christ.
And Jesus Christ is the God in human flesh.
Any Biblical proof? no2 None.
If God takes a human form and became Jesus Christ, then who is the God whom Christ is praying to when He was still here on earth?
🙂
I give up. Apparently your thick skulls cannot be penatrated by any sense at all. I gave you my opinion, I never said it was true. So let me now give you an answer.
There is none. No one, not the pope, not the cardinals, not the bishops, not the comittees, the moderators, the boards, ect ect, know the answer to this question. So, I reccommend we lock this topic since it is pointless and useless. There is no answer to this question and there never will be. There is biblical proof that God was present in Jesus. There are many counts when people are repremanded with the words "Youare in the presence of God". And yet, as you have said, it also contradicts itself. Those two first statements, however, were assumed before the coming of John, and so are void.
The bottom line is, however, that there is no answer. No one knows.
But. It is a fundemental belief, belief, not fact, of Christians that God was indeed present in Jesus. God, since he cannot be man, has no distinct form. So we again come to my rephrasing of the question, "Are God and Jesus the same person?", to "Was God's presence in Jesus?". The answer is, if you are Christian, yes.
Now please lock this topic. The question has been answered.
Originally posted by DwarfdudeOne analogy that my confirmation teacher used to explain it was that of the sun. The Father, the Creator, God, is like the actual sun itself. The rays and light of the sun are the Son, Jesus Christ, God as we can see him, just as we see the light of the sun. And the Holy Spirit is the heat that the sun gives, always present, but never seen.
This might have confused you, but trust me, your not alone. Most of the worlds theologions dont understand the Trinity themselves. Its a mystery that can never be fully solved.
And trust me, I'm pretty sure I'm right on this....I'm the son of two ministers.
Originally posted by Jury
Well... Still, nobody could prove BIBLICALLY that Jesus is the same true God.According to the Bible:
There is only one God --- and that is the Father
God is not a man --- A man can never be God
Jesus Christ is a man --- Jesus Christ is not God
Jesus Christ is the Son of God --- And God is Christ's FatherThese statements remain true and never been contradictory to the Bible, which eternally proclaims that
"The only true God is the Father who is in heaven."
According to the Trinity:
There is one God.
The Father is God.
The Son Jesus Christ is God.
The Holy Spirit is God.Yet the three are considered as one true God.
Biblical? no2 No.
Why? According to the Bible, the Father is the only true God -- Not the Son -- Not the Holy Spirit.According to the Hypostatic Union theory:
There is one God.
God takes a human form and becomes Jesus Christ.
And Jesus Christ is the God in human flesh.Any Biblical proof? no2 None.
If God takes a human form and became Jesus Christ, then who is the God whom Christ is praying to when He was still here on earth?🙂
You haven't answered a single post of mine. You just rephrased the same bits of stupid infomation again and again.
End point is vaguely new. I only answered it directly a page or two ago. He is praying to the bits he kenosised out of him when he became man.
"One analogy that my confirmation teacher used to explain it was that of the sun. The Father, the Creator, God, is like the actual sun itself. The rays and light of the sun are the Son, Jesus Christ, God as we can see him, just as we see the light of the sun. And the Holy Spirit is the heat that the sun gives, always present, but never seen."
Must admit, i totally agree on that one. 😉
"I prefer my version on page five. It even has a picture."
lol 😂
Originally posted by Ytaker
You haven't answered a single post of mine. You just rephrased the same bits of stupid infomation again and again.End point is vaguely new. I only answered it directly a page or two ago. He is praying to the bits he kenosised out of him when he became man.
Well, I answered the very first purpose of this thread WITH BIBLICAL PROOF. meaning answers taken from the Bible itself. 🙂 Which, you didn't even do. Instead, you tried to argue with personal assumptions and notions. 🙄
When Jesus said that "no one knows when the Day of Judgment would come, even Him, except God."... would definitely mean that Jesus is not the God. 🙄
Finally, when Jesus said that the Father alone is the true God, it means that it's definitely not the Son, and not the Holy Spirit.
🙂
If only the Bible proclaimed that the Father is God, the Son is God, and the Holy Spirit is God, and these three are ONE GOD, then I would agree.
But there's no such thing ever proclaimed in the Bible... never in the Era of the Patriarchs, never in the Era of the Prophets, and never in the Christian Era.
From eternity to eternity, the Father is the only true God... and no other.
🙂
Originally posted by Jury
Well, I answered the very first purpose of this thread WITH BIBLICAL PROOF. meaning answers taken from the Bible itself. 🙂 Which, you didn't even do. Instead, you tried to argue with personal assumptions and notions. 🙄When Jesus said that "no one knows when the Day of Judgment would come, even Him, except God."... would definitely mean that Jesus is not the God. 🙄
Finally, when Jesus said that the Father alone is the true God, it means that it's definitely not the Son, and not the Holy Spirit.
🙂
"You are the God who sees me," for she said,
"I have now seen the One who sees me" (Gen 16:13)
"No one has ever seen God, but God the One and Only (or Only Begotten), who is at the Father's side, has made him known."
John 1:18
"Isaiah said this because he saw Jesus' glory and spoke about him". John 12:41
I can give proof, but I don't need to. They argue discreetly for me, and I win. If you want to argue with me, contest my logic. When I have explained how everything works with Father+Son+Holy spirit and how things like the afore mentioned verses don't work if you disagree, you have to contest that if you are a Christian. You aren't contesting that your view implies a contradiction. If you can't get your view to cover everthing, and I can, then I'm right.
Originally posted by Jury
If only the Bible proclaimed that the Father is God, the Son is God, and the Holy Spirit is God, and these three are ONE GOD, then I would agree.But there's no such thing ever proclaimed in the Bible... never in the Era of the Patriarchs, never in the Era of the Prophets, and never in the Christian Era.
From eternity to eternity, the Father is the only true God... and no other.
🙂
Unless Jesus happens to have power such as God, which would make it a polythesim (God's word normally doesn't have that much power does it. Only God's will.) Unless they were one.
Originally posted by Ytaker
"Isaiah said this because he saw Jesus' glory and spoke about him". John 12:41
Remember, that in the OT, Jesus, as God's Son has already proclaimed His glory from the very beginning and also His coming to earth... but Jesus Himself never existed before He was born of Mary.
Originally posted by Ytaker
[B"No one has ever seen God, but God the One and Only (or Only Begotten), who is at the Father's side, has made him known."
John 1:18[/B]
Why not consider also those clearer and not the quite erroneous and bias renditions? 🙄
Jn 1:18, (King James Version), No man hath seen God at any time, the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him.
Jn 1:18, (American Standard Version), No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, who is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him.
Jn 1:18, (Young's Literal Translation), God no one hath ever seen; the only begotten Son, who is on the bosom of the Father -- he did declare.
Jn 1:18, (New King James Version), No one has seen God at any time. The only begotten Son, who is in the bosom of the Father, He has declared Him.
🙂 No man has ever seen God. Yes. Why? Because God is invisible. But Jesus, the only begotten Son declared that we can be able to see God through Him and through the works and miracles God did through Him. And it doesn't necessarily means that He is already God.
Originally posted by Ytaker
I can give proof, but I don't need to. They argue discreetly for me, and I win. If you want to argue with me, contest my logic. When I have explained how everything works with Father+Son+Holy spirit and how things like the afore mentioned verses don't work if you disagree, you have to contest that if you are a Christian. You aren't contesting that your view implies a contradiction. If you can't get your view to cover everthing, and I can, then I'm right.
Well, I didn't come here for contest.
I came here to answer the question at hand:
Is God and Jesus the same person?
The concern of the question at hand is about the "number".
So my answer was, no... because according to the Bible God and Jesus Christ are two distinct "entities" and/or "persons".
The Father is not the Son, obviously... and also not the Holy Spirit.
But the Bible declares that the Father ALONE is the true God.
Clear, concise, and definite.
The reason and logic can determine that it is impossible to consider that the only true God and Jesus Christ are of one "entity" and/or "person".
I'm not here to uphold my own personal opinions. That's why I have to use the Bible to answer the question at hand.
Is God and Jesus the same person?
God is Jesus' Father (John 20:17).
Jesus is God's Son (Matthew 3:17).
The Father ALONE is God (John 17:1-3)
If you consider them as one same person... then you defy the reason and logic.
🙂
Originally posted by Ytaker
Unless Jesus happens to have power such as God, which would make it a polythesim (God's word normally doesn't have that much power does it. Only God's will.) Unless they were one.
Jesus never declared that He has power of His own. Instead, He proclaimed that everything He does and everything He says comes from His Father. For without Him, Jesus can do nothing.
🙂
If God and Jesus are one in being God, then why would Jesus Himself proclaims such as:
”Heaven and earth will pass away, but my words will never pass away.
“No one knows about the day or hour, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father.”
Mark 13:30-32
True. Because the Father ALONE is the true God and only the ONE who knows everything, that is, being Omniscient.
Originally posted by Jury
Why not consider also those clearer and not the quite erroneous and bias renditions? 🙄Jn 1:18, (King James Version), No man hath seen God at any time, the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him.
Jn 1:18, (American Standard Version), No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, who is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him.
Jn 1:18, (Young's Literal Translation), God no one hath ever seen; the only begotten Son, who is on the bosom of the Father -- he did declare.
Jn 1:18, (New King James Version), No one has seen God at any time. The only begotten Son, who is in the bosom of the Father, He has declared Him.
🙂 No man has ever seen God. Yes. Why? Because God is invisible. But Jesus, the only begotten Son declared that we can be able to see God through Him and through the works and miracles God did through Him. And it doesn't necessarily means that He is already God.
What about all those blokes who lived before Jesus, the ones who didn't when the "born of Mary" came, who saw the invisible God ?
Plus... Since when has the King James Bible ever been considered a good translation?
Originally posted by Jury
If God and Jesus are one in being God, then why would Jesus Himself proclaims such as:”Heaven and earth will pass away, but my words will never pass away.
“No one knows about the day or hour, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father.”
[b]Mark 13:30-32True. Because the Father ALONE is the true God and only the ONE who knows everything, that is, being Omniscient. [/B]
When Jesus has removed all his omniscient powers through Kenosis...